MEP 803a governor question

[SQF]

Hi all, I recently picked up a very low hour 803a (125hr if memory serves). I’m by no means even a novice at these generators, but I have three of them now I use for construction. With this forums help, I have worked through numerous issues.

This one came with no batteries and known “run ability” issues; specifically would not run at rated speed and then it won’t shut off. The diesel return lines from the injectors were all missing as well as the return to the tank. I hooked all this back up and put fresh batteries in it (please disregard the non-oem lines I used). It fired right up but sounds likes it is under a heavy load and then won’t shut off. After running 1-2 min it smelled like something getting hot in the gen head. There was some smoke come out of the gen head. Somehow I got it shut off. I started with the governor shut off solenoid linkage. They were rigged and not like my other two 803’s. What I noticed was that the governor “lever” does not appear to articulate the way my other two 803’s do.it does not go to the stop like it should. I’m not sure where to go from here. Any direction much appreciated!

 

[Light in the Dark]

You will need to pull the metering pumps (or at least one of them) and see if they are lined up with the slots in the internal armature that opens and closes the fuel to them. I would suspect that if you cannot fully close that arm, that one or more are not properly lined up and its stopping the movement to the left (closed) Or, you might have a 'frozen' pump or two that is hanging up the works.

 

[SQF]

Ok, the novice in me is about to come out. Are the metering pumps what have the bolted hold downs that insert into the side of the block? I assume those metering pumps have the lines that run to the individual injectors? If so and I remove those, what am I looking for in terms of alignment?

 

[rickf]

The orange silicone is never a good sign, especially when it is way overdone like that one. That stuff gets into everything and jams things up.

 

[Light in the Dark]

Ok, the novice in me is about to come out. Are the metering pumps what have the bolted hold downs that insert into the side of the block? I assume those metering pumps have the lines that run to the individual injectors? If so and I remove those, what am I looking for in terms of alignment?

Yes, bingo. They look like this:


See that downward metal pin? That locks into (4) notches on the governor armature. When they move to the left, it restricts fuel completely... far right, full volume.

This is what the armature looks like on the inside.



See how if they aren't nested into those notches, it could cause run issues (or inhibit movement)?

 

[Light in the Dark]

And they need to be positioned not only in that notch, but also the top part rotated as close to the push rod tube as possible upon reinstallation. That top rotation allows for the pump to be 'clocked' to allow the full range of governor arm movement. If they are not set evenly, you can see poor running habits, hot or cold cylinder temps, etc. Just about making everything as even as possible.

 

[Ray70]

Go to the top of this forum, 2nd post down, It's got lots of good info about the metering pumps, tips to install and how to tell if you have a frozen metering pump. Hopefully your problem is as simple as a sticking pump lever, but obviously someone has already had the timing cover off, so you won't know until you dig into it.

 

[CallMeColt]

This may be helpful. The injection pumps can be annoying to remove/install but on an MEP 803A there is MUCH more room!

I'm betting that someone already messed with them & installed them improperly. Have seen it quite a few times. Hopefully that rail isn't bent! Usually you can make it move no problem with your hand, it is when they are in wrong it "jams".

 

[SQF]

Thanks so o all who have helped thus far. Life got in the way and I am finally returning to this project.

You were absolutely right. Someone installed the injectors wrong. Luckily the rod doesn’t seem bent. I measured the distance from the case to the fork in the rod at each cylinder and it’s exactly the same. Unfortunately I have one bent and one broken injector to source.

Do I have to replace the entire injector or just the “shut off” lever and rebuild the injector? Also, there is obviously a piece of metal in my oil pan (I assume???). What are your thoughts? Thanks!

 

[rickf]

I have been following this since the first post and I have noticed that said there was smoke coming from the generator head. Granted the injectors were part of the problem but you might want to try to see where that smoke came from without starting it back up and letting the rest of the magic smoke out.

 

[CallMeColt]

Thanks so o all who have helped thus far. Life got in the way and I am finally returning to this project.

You were absolutely right. Someone installed the injectors wrong. Luckily the rod doesn’t seem bent. I measured the distance from the case to the fork in the rod at each cylinder and it’s exactly the same. Unfortunately I have one bent and one broken injector to source. Do I have to replace the entire injector or just the “shut off” lever and rebuild the injector? Also, there is obviously a piece of metal in my oil pan (I assume???). What are your thoughts? Thanks!

These are NOT injectors, they are injection pumps. Big difference! You must use proper terminology or you may end up getting the wrong parts/advice when using just words with others. Not trying to be a bother... Just help you avoid a mistake.

Years ago when learning with these, I called them injectors & it confused me with things I was reading.... until sharing a picture to be told I'm touching the injection pumps. Have learned a lot since then!

Finding parts for the injections pumps is going to be a big no. Get the broken part out & source some injection pumps. Maybe, try to bend the bent one back & you'll get lucky. Injection pumps are not cheap!

 

[2Pbfeet]

Thanks so o all who have helped thus far. Life got in the way and I am finally returning to this project.

You were absolutely right. Someone installed the injectors wrong. Luckily the rod doesn’t seem bent. I measured the distance from the case to the fork in the rod at each cylinder and it’s exactly the same. Unfortunately I have one bent and one broken injector to source.

Do I have to replace the entire injector or just the “shut off” lever and rebuild the injector? Also, there is obviously a piece of metal in my oil pan (I assume???). What are your thoughts? Thanks!

View attachment 950624

I suspect that the bad news is that nothing about these two is likely to be inexpensive. The good news is that you have uncovered a possible cause for at least some of your engine's difficulties. I know someone who specializes in rebuilding injection pumps, if you decide to go down that path. When I asked him, his first comment on rebuilding Lister Petter injection pumps was along the lines of "even replacement parts for Lister Petter pumps are expensive". PM me if you want his contact information. He might have some used pumps that could be used for parts.

All the best,

2Pbfeet

 

[SQF]

Ok guys, I got my new metering pump and I’m have a bear of a time getting the tabs to line up. I get them all in and then it’s like they slip out. The brand new metering pump is much “stiffer” than the old ones to actuate. That should give me some resistance on the actuator arm. As soon as I clamp them all down, I have no resistance. It runs good but I have to shut the fuel off to stop it. What am I doing wrong? It almost feels like there is slippage in the actuator arm. Following the video posted, when I pin the actuator back the metering pump doesn’t drop in like his does. I have to reach in another open port and push the actuator further to the left and then it drops right in. Any help appreciated!

 

[SQF]

https://youtube.com/shorts/nBecwwPS-ic?si=-OcQXxSJ5_rm1kQr

https://youtube.com/shorts/4AK-uZrgNnc?si=HuUKh4FCi-tYp14C

 

[Ray70]

Well, for starters you have to bolt the pumps down otherwise the pins will hit on the underside of the block and bind up.
Look at the sticky at the top of the generator forum for tips on installing the metering pumps.
Also, the linkage is not connected to the lever arm with a solid connection, it has like a "trip linkage" on the lever that can make it feel like it's coming disconnected when in reality it may be fine.
Start by putting the clamps on the pumps and bolt them down within 1/16" of tight and then see if they all still wiggle when you move the linkage, if so they are probably fine.
Also, with the fuel solenoid out of the way, the linkage should spring all the way to the right, if not something is bound up.

 

[Ray70]

One other thing to keep in mind is that the metering pump levers will move easier once the pump in installed and slightly compressed.
When out of the unit the spring on the bottom is being held on by pulling against the plunger, once installed that spring force on the plunger goes away.
Used pumps will tend o move easier because they're worn in.

 

[SQF]

Well guys I was back at this thing again tonight. I read the sticky in here about meter pump installation and rack alignment; very helpful.

I am 98% sure I am aligning everything properly but I still have a slightly smokey (black smoke) but running engine that won’t shut off. I am also fairly certain I have one or more bad metering pumps. I assume it is possible that the tab is being actuated by the rack but internally the pump is not shutting off?

Obviously one metering pump is brand new. Is there a procedure to test a metering pump? I’d hate to order three more at $230/ea to learn that’s not my issue. If there is any good news, over the dozen or so times I’ve had it running there has been no smoke from the gen head and nothing getting hot. Fingers crossed…

Thanks for the continued support!

 

[LuckeyD]

Good Day: Try this; Pick a pump to play with. Pull it leaving everything else alone. Once in your hand, I usually put the spring end against something and push it in a tiny bit and I check the little side tang movement for freedom. Then do this- check rack movement in the engine by moving the fuel shut off solenoid or the governor shut down moving (rotating) it toward the the back of the engine with a small finger or screwdriver in the rack tang slot. The rack should move towards the engine bell housing, and then move the governor back to the resting and off position. The rack should move freely back with it as there is a spring pilling it towards the stop position. Free, Good; sluggish or sticky not moving back, you have either a Pump tang not working well or an internal governor issue, bent rack or something like this not right. Pull pumps one at a time until you find the one hanging things up and never pull all pumps out. Also ensure your pumps are rotated so there is just enough room for your finger tip between just tries to poke in between the pump fuel inlet steel port and the push rod tube as you tighten the crows foot hold down. This leaves enough room for the fuel hose to connect and it is set to a point just before the pump tang starts to move the rack at fuel shut off. Too far with that fuel inlet toward you as you install each pump does not allow the pump tang to reach shut off. I even had one with crud in the engine where the rack goes in at the back of the engine, a pump not right, not installed correctly, and rarely a busted spring in the governor, or sticky governor. At factory they install these pumps with the governor housing not installed yet allowing one to move the rack by hand. On the gen you have to remove the radiator, with top cover and front housing to do that. If I remember right it takes a 24MM socket to remove the harmonic balancer so you can remove the governor housing as well. All that is a real pain with a 802 that just won't allow pumps to be installed. 803s are easier.
There is a stop on the side of the governor that is usually wired and plumbed with a lead seal at factory. It is set to allow the engine governor and rack to move from shut off to full fuel. If the solenoid and slide linkage is working properly and not binding at engine shut off this is a place to look for an issue and and there is a lister-Petter page saying how to adjust this where you downloaded the manual. There should be a Lister-Petter engine manual there too.