MEP-804B - New to me, I have a few questions

[loosegravel]

When I bid on my MEP-804b last September I failed to see that it didn't have an alternator on it. Of course I had to find one when I brought the unit home. I found a new one on eBay. It wasn't too awfully expensive but it arrived damaged. I contacted the seller and they sent me another one no problem. They told me to keep the old one. I've been hanging on to it for? If you would like it, it's yours. You should be able to transfer any of the parts over and make a good one with your case.

 

[loosegravel]

It looks like the seller still has one left. if you type in HITACHI 20 Amp Alternator For Isuzu 4JB1 Engine 1988-On LR220-24 as a search you can see if this will work for you. I don't have any photos of the parts one that I have.

 

[Guyfang]

I have a feeling the alternator in your set is NOT the stock one. What type, model, and or part number is it. Lets compare it to what is in the TM and what 155mm pointed you towards. The "extra" wire hanging down for the alt, in not what I remember.

 

[410Customs]

Thank you
I have been shopping for a bit for one now
The one you posted is 12v

db electrical Would not warranty an alternator I had from them that literally failed 3 days after 1 year warranty and this was a new unit not reman I was not happy w them so hesitant to go back
I need at least 35a 24v that will fit hopefully new

the unit you posted for $115 is 12V
The hitachi in my machine matches the TM description
The 804a uses a isuzu engine and a 20 amp unit
My 804b has a Yanmar turbo and uses a 35a hitachi unit
I like hitachi, I have several of their tools and they make nice elevators (over seas)

I would like to find a good replacement, if its $265 then so be it, however I would be happy with a cheaper reman unit AND have the ability to charge the batteries using the courtesy outlets if the alt ever fails

here are the pics of the unit from my machine
First up the circuit breakers, all working fine

And then the shunt, looks okay to me? hahahahaha as if I knew what I was looking at

def has some surface corrosion

The hitachi LR35-705

Wires clearly labeled, everything matches the diagram 100%

removed

On the bench, taken apart I found a little bit of interior corrosion but nothing jumps out as "bad"

On Monday will call shops in Spokane (2 hours) about having this unit tested/ rebuilt??

wire may have shorted on the case?

silver powder like stuff built up inside on the fins

I haver power at the batt terminal, I have battery + at the voltage regulator, usually in the world of vehicles with a running engine and power at the alternator wires, = bad alternator, usually a failed internal voltage regulator (IVR)

 

[410Customs]

When I bid on my MEP-804b last September I failed to see that it didn't have an alternator on it. Of course I had to find one when I brought the unit home. I found a new one on eBay. It wasn't too awfully expensive but it arrived damaged. I contacted the seller and they sent me another one no problem. They told me to keep the old one. I've been hanging on to it for? If you would like it, it's yours. You should be able to transfer any of the parts over and make a good one with your case.

Well heck yeah, what model is it for? 804a or b? Is it 35amp?

You are very kind, I am interested if it will work, we will be relying on this machine heavily so redundancy is my friend (spare parts)

 

[Guyfang]

When the shunt is "bad", the middle strip is burnt through.

 

[G744]

If that shunt is for the panel charge ammeter, an open shunt will not only not allow battery charging, but will ruin the ammeter as well.

DDG

 

[loosegravel]

Well heck yeah, what model is it for? 804a or b? Is it 35amp?

You are very kind, I am interested if it will work, we will be relying on this machine heavily so redundancy is my friend (spare parts)

It appears that we have two different model of alternators. The one that I have is a Hitachi LR220-24V. I don't know if the internal parts are interchangeable.

 

[loosegravel]

It appears that we have two different model of alternators. The one that I have is a Hitachi LR220-24V. I don't know if the internal parts are interchangeable.

I have a 804b model, also with the Yanmar 2.0L turbo. It's interesting that we have two different alternators.

 

[Guyfang]

Not interesting. Someone tried to install a substitute. Doesn't always work.

Loosegravel wrote;
It looks like the seller still has one left. if you type in HITACHI 20 Amp Alternator For Isuzu 4JB1 Engine 1988-On LR220-24 as a search you can see if this will work for you. I don't have any photos of the parts one that I have.

The LR220-24 will not work for the -B model.

The NSN is 6115-01-546-2792
The part numbers are: 129900-77240 and 129900-77241

 

[410Customs]

Thanks guys
Will call some alternator places tomorrow and consider my options may just have to buy the $260 hitachi unit the last thing I want is to buy a new alternator install it only to find it is still not charging... I feel I have tested just about everything I can on the machine side so I am pretty confident this alternator is bad
In my mind it is hard to accept because it is a military genset with 160 hours on it I would not expect a bad alternator and w my luck lately with generators!!! Well you know the drill fingers crossed!

 

[G744]

Let's be clear: With the engine running, you have +24 on the DISCONNECTED alternator leads other than the ground one.

If yes, bad alt. If no, bad circuit somewhere.

That test is import in diagnosing the alternator status. The fat wire should be hot anytime the engine is running. The skinny wire as well.

The ground wire, of course not.

DG

 

[410Customs]

Let's be clear: With the engine running, you have +24 on the DISCONNECTED alternator leads other than the ground one.

If yes, bad alt. If no, bad circuit somewhere.

That test is import in diagnosing the alternator status. The fat wire should be hot anytime the engine is running. The skinny wire as well.

The ground wire, of course not.

DG

Yes I do
I have battery power at the batt+ terminal (of course)
When running I have battery power at the voltage regulator feed wire.
The ground wire also has a good strong connection to battery ground

I will let you guys know what I find out
Hoping for some sunshine otherwise we are burning gasoline! And with spring break gas is approaching $3 a gallon up here

 

[NATCAD]

You sir, have made a lot of progress while I was off grid.

A couple more thoughts, about optimizing things.. why not try to find a used inverter that matches yours - either on ebay, or asking manufacturer (tech support not sales) if they have one somewhere... Also asking why they are not compatible to work togeather with the new ones. Tell them what you want to do.

If you have all three phases and you are committed to this generator, then lets figure out how to use them.

Another thought would be to look at a low cost replacement for all three... a growatt 3000TL ES is $700 each. They are 250v input and 4000 watts input or so.

You possibly add a seperate 'un-linked' inverter/charger, but only use the charging function of it. If you upsize your battery to what you first thought you had 800ah (nice size) then you can run your generator for much shorter period of time and get more out of it. You could also add more panels to that 3rd inverter/charger that you will only use for dc.

What is your solar panel set up ? How many panels and how do you have them configured?

The more I think about it, the more I like that idea. Add one additional charger inverter and use only the charging function.

Anyone see any problem with that?

$700 and you are able to use the whole generator.

Also, what is your opinion of the greatfull dead?

 

[Guyfang]

If your not a Dead head, you aint!

 

[NATCAD]

lets see what 410 says

 

[410Customs]

Greatful dead ..... I had some friends that were into them when I was younger
I always lived near red rocks amphitheater in Colorado and when the dead would come through i know there was a large community of hippies that would clog up the works for weeks.... tent cities are not my kind of thing, if I’m in a tent it should we way out in the woods not waiting for a concert
I never went much for the “Indy” style music i Never got much into the dead
I was more into punk rock then the ‘hippie stuff’
now that I am a little older I find i like all sorts of music I try not to limit myself
today in the shop we had on everything from ac/dc “let there be rock“ to 21 pilots “level of concern” my YouTube mix is quite diverse
i know I really like one or two of their songs “a touch of grey” I think it is is awesome song, so many layers
i do not dislike them but I never had their records or tee shirts hahahahaha


I took the hitachi to a local auto electric repair shop, very happy to find a guy who can help locally!
the unit indeed tests bad
that is good news in a way, at least I know I am not crazy. He said the unit pretty much checks out inside he believes it is a bad ivr
he tried to get parts to repair this unit but the parts are proprietary to yanmar
instead he ordered me a replacement unit and it will be here next week

in the mean time I ordered one of these:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwj4kc_Q-tvvAhUCGVkFHXwVA-gQFjAAegQIBRAD&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.amazon.com%2FNOCO-G26000-UltraSafe-Battery-Charger%2Fdp%2FB004LX14Z2&usg=AOvVaw07wT2wBFMmNUklHTnikhuv

that will work as sort of a backup if this happens again and I can use it to charge other batteries


so the outback inverters are not backwards compatible I believe it is due to the language they use to communicatebwith one another when in a stacked formation
outback has updated their equipment with the mate 3 interface and you can monitor your inverters from the pc, my older units do not have this ability
I did search for an fx3648 inverter not the vfx3648 I have not found ome for sale yet.


i like the idea of using a third inverter on the third leg of the generator
it might workout better then you think! You see we are just finishing up a 2 bedroom one bath, kitchen ette addition to the main house and it has its own electrical box. This will be the space my wife and I occupy and we could use a third inverter another smaller battery bank, small array etc
i am getting ready to replace our 15 year old solar panels many of the old ones are still good, I can use them over there.
I Do not see why this would not work!

 

[410Customs]

You sir, have made a lot of progress while I was off grid.

A couple more thoughts, about optimizing things.. why not try to find a used inverter that matches yours - either on ebay, or asking manufacturer (tech support not sales) if they have one somewhere... Also asking why they are not compatible to work togeather with the new ones. Tell them what you want to do.

If you have all three phases and you are committed to this generator, then lets figure out how to use them.

Another thought would be to look at a low cost replacement for all three... a growatt 3000TL ES is $700 each. They are 250v input and 4000 watts input or so.

You possibly add a seperate 'un-linked' inverter/charger, but only use the charging function of it. If you upsize your battery to what you first thought you had 800ah (nice size) then you can run your generator for much shorter period of time and get more out of it. You could also add more panels to that 3rd inverter/charger that you will only use for dc.

What is your solar panel set up ? How many panels and how do you have them configured?

The more I think about it, the more I like that idea. Add one additional charger inverter and use only the charging function.

Anyone see any problem with that?

$700 and you are able to use the whole generator.

Also, what is your opinion of the greatfull dead?

we are indeed committed to the 804b, I love this genset

i will be getting 8 more battle born batteries ASAP then we will have 400 amp hours, with lifepo4 batteries 400ah is quite a bit since they have such a deep depth of discharge. 800ah would just be awesome but the cost will have to come down before I can afford to do that!

right now we have 16 total solar panels they are bp solar, 170w poly
they are from 2005, mounted on poles with aluminum racks that I can angle and turn
they are wired 8 sets of 2 panels. 8 total panels (one array) per mx60 charge controller

thanks for the advice I will for sure find the best way to utilize the 3rd leg and get a balanced load, so many advantages

 

[NATCAD]

Thanks for the reply.

You get the concept - add one more chager/inverter but only use the charger function of it.
That solves the generator leg loading. Pm me if you want the contact to buy inverter I think would work best.

Based on the spec on those panels, I would replace them IF they are 60 cell panels. New 60 cell panels are about 50 cents a watt. I.e. you will double your output by replacing them. 2400$ and you have double output.

I wouldn't throw the old ones out, but use them to feed your new inverter/charger which will take 3000 watts of solar.

Your charge controller will only push 60 amps.

Do you have one or two?

If you replace the panels you will need more charge controller. This would point us back to replacing those other two charger inverters

I'm baking you a cake here with definite ideas of using macadamia nuts, but maybe you like cashews. So you need to tailor it to suit what you want to do.

If you are putting out 3k on batteries then I think it makes sense to up your solar input so you cycle those batteries less. Yes I realize the lip04 can be deeply discharged. But less discharge is more cycles with the lip04.

Edit, I see your reply with more detail.
I would keep all the battleborns together unless you think your older ones are degraded.

Do a capacity test on them. What is the AH rating on the old ones?

If they are a different AH an degraded capacity then yes, that is a good reason to have them in a separate array.

I think it would make sense to have two arrays with a dc switch that you can choose the battery you are pulling from or or charging.

I would keep all your AC togeather at one main panel and give yourself optionality and redundancy to switch between batteries.

Are you thinking to add any protection from induced currents either at the panel or on the main feeders directly?

3k battery
$200 battery switch
$700 inverter charger
$2400-3k solar panels

Toss up on replacing panels on your existing racking, vs keeping them and building new racking for 8 new 4000 watt panels to feed the 700$ inverter.
Whats the sun and shading situation in your area?
I think you posted one photo way back and there were lots of trees.

I'm more of a peter frampton fan.

 

[Guyfang]

Early Frampton was GREAT.