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Minimal towing rig for a 7-ton CRV(T)?

teletech

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santa cruz,ca
Well, it actually just makes me want to buy a spare set of track and stock up on 1-trip premits. :)

I can always get a rollback and use the spare deck for a tiny house trailer so it's a "self-contained camper" and thus non-commercial.
I sort of knew it wasn't going to be easy like "Buy a 5-ton and make some ramps".
 

Autocar

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Not trying to discourage anyone. OP asked for help and got good advise from everyone here who has experience with hauling a similar vehicle. Armor is not for the faint of heart and you'd better have a plan going in or things can get ugly quickly. OP is doing the right thing thinking it thru all the way to the end.
 
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Rick007

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I can tell you the CVRt line of vehicles are really fun and small enough to put in a standard garage. I have a Scorpion. I like the Sabre as well or the Striker oh heck I like them all but the best looking ones are those that have a gun or TOW missile launcher like the Striker. Look at the HMVF forum for lots of info on these type of vehicles. A lot of helpful members just like this site. There is a lot to learn before buying a CVRt. Condition is everything and they aren't getting any cheaper only going up. If I can help PM me Rick
 

Rick007

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Autocar I wasn't picking on anybody. He is getting great advice from everyone. Its my way of saying life was a lot easier when you just wanted to do something and have some fun. you did it. Now even Joe Lunchbox is regulated as a large trucking firm when all he wants to do is get his hobby vehicle to a function.
 

Autocar

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No offense taken. As you know, California is in its own little universe and I didn't want OP to get into something without knowing the ins and outs. I had to learn the hard way.
 

quickfarms

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Orange Junction, CA
Autocar I wasn't picking on anybody. He is getting great advice from everyone. Its my way of saying life was a lot easier when you just wanted to do something and have some fun. you did it. Now even Joe Lunchbox is regulated as a large trucking firm when all he wants to do is get his hobby vehicle to a function.
This is so far from the truth. The regulations that he will face are far less than those that a trucking company or even an owner operator faces.

All he will be required to do is get the correct license, insurance, registration and maintain the vehicle in a condition that it will pass a dot inspection.

He probably will not have to get a motor carrier permit, CA numbers, DOT numbers, be subject to the bit program, the pull program, drug testing, road/fuel tax and the list goes on.
 

quickfarms

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Orange Junction, CA
This question is for the OP

How often, and far, do you think that you would be moving it?

If you are not moving it a great distance or very often another option is to make friends with the local heavy tow or construction company and hire them to move it.
 

teletech

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Like many members on here I just prefer self-reliance, I think I'll keep an eye out for a deal but just assume I'm going to need some help until I know what my trips actually shape up to be.
I honestly think I'm looking at one or two trips per year:
local, about 80 miles but up a tight road so most guys don't want to make the drive. I really am tempted to do the last 20 miles in the vehicle to make that OK.
moderate distance, it would be cool to go to one of the meets every year or so which are in northern and southern CA. As I'm in San Jose, it's a few hundred miles each way. It would be great if I could find somebody driving a heavy to the event and work something out.

I really appreciate the feedback everybody. My first few MVs I had no such support and it seems so much easier with the ideas and encouragement.
so thanks,
Pavl_
 

quickfarms

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Orange Junction, CA
If your road is that bad how do they pick up the trash, deliver construction materials, concrete, roll off dumpsters, furniture, appliances, do road work, will AAA come up there?

How about the fire department?

Your typical straight truck, two or three axle has a bed or box on it about 20 feet long, dumps are slightly shorter.

Your typical flat bed tow truck bed is about 20 to 22 feet long.

Do these types of trucks go up there?

Will fed ex and ups come up there?

Is there a king pin and length restriction on this road?
 

teletech

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CA HWY 130
Well, it's a mixed-bag. We are on a restricted road according to Caltrans. We don't have trash service, UPS delivers but FEDEX usually will not (depends on the driver). Cal fire can get up here but it takes some time and a week ago they showed up to an incident with a good amount of damage because a vehicle in the oncoming lane hit them on-route. When they do road construction they close down both lanes. Small tour buses and tractor-trailer rigs do come up but one gets stuck about every other month so a recovery vehicle has to be called. Airgas will only deliver in their small truck.
Many delivery services will come up *once* and then refuse to do so again.
Yada, yada, yada...

That's why I was looking for something compact, so I don't have to hope the person I called will actually be willing to make the trip.
 

quickfarms

Active member
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Orange Junction, CA
What are the Caltrans restrictions in your area?

It only looks like the westerly portion of 130 in district 4 allows limited truck traffic, max 30 KPRA. The portion in district 10 is not listed as a truck route.
 

quickfarms

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Orange Junction, CA
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1408113417.525037.jpg

This is the data plate off of a standard two axle flatbed tow truck. This truck only has a 10,000 lb deck capacity, 9100 lb load capacity, and is at the limit for a non CDL truck.
 

teletech

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santa cruz,ca
Mostly I'm tied up doing the restoration work on my CVR(T) but still looking at tow rigs out one corner of my eye.

What about one of those cute little Unimog SEE rigs?
Oh, I know they are slow but I'm liking the short wheelbase and general utility. I could tow, unload, and emplace with the same rig! :)

Of course I notice a lot of the Stewart and Stevens out there lately which might have the GCVW for the job?
 

Austringer

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I tow my V100 (13-14K) on a 10 ton goose neck trailer with my Dodge 2500 and have no problems. I have a class E license in GA and have had no trouble from the DOT or Department of Public safety. My dodge is a 2005 with the 5.9L Cummings TD. I've done the following modifications:

1. Upgraded the rear springs to 3500 level and higher (only difference between 2500 and 3500 rear springs is the 3500 has an additional rear spring).
2. Complete new air intake system from cold air scoop, high flow air box/filter, high capacity/flow inter-cooler and larger boost tubes and new intake manifold.
3. Duel Disk Clutch
4. (MOST IMPORTANT AND 1ST ITEM TO ADD) Banks Exhaust Brake. I've gone down a steep grade mountain road with the V on the trailer and in 3rd gear with the exhaust brake on and never went above 40-45 and never used the vehicle/trailer brakes
5. High end proportional electric brake
6. Spent the time to find the sweet spot and marked where the front wheels should be in paint on the trailer. When the vehicle is chained to the trailer there, I have 2000 to 2250 lbs in the truck bed and the rest on the trailer wheels. In this position, I had each wheel/axle put on a scale and i'm a few hundred below the max rated tire weight. 1st thing the DOT checks here.
7. V is chained down using 4 3/8 chains that are crossed on each end and ratchet binders used on front chains.
8. EGT gauge installed (don't want to burn up the turbo, but since installing the new air intake system, I've rarely gone above 1200 on a long incline.

Stopping is not an issue as the truck can stop pretty quick if needed. I can tell the weight is back there, but overall, she still gets about 13-14 mpg towing the V.

I tried to find a 05 dodge 3500 SRW, but all I could find here were DRW trucks, which I did not want.
 
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teletech

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santa cruz,ca
Years later, I've moved but my CVR(T) haven't.
I'm still noodling about a minimal tow rig. I saw this:
2.jpg
Flat bed is just barely long enough. 15K empty with a 33K gross, I'd just squeak in under that, or will easily if I lost the headache rack.
So, it's just barely enough truck, check. I'm doubting the ability of the 7.8 New-Holland motor to really get me anywhere with a rated 210HP even with 10 forward speeds. I mean it will, but I'd like to go some sort of safe speed. I've also seen a couple rollback trucks with the same weight rating but lacking the tag axle, a couple have the Cummins 8.3. So, is a slightly newer truck with a more common motor (and 30 extra HP) worth going for a $4K truck (above) to a $12K truck? Tag axle, will it make things feel that much more stable and safe or is 33K just too much for the F800 chassis to be safe even though it's rated for it?
 

Austringer

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Atlanta, Ga
I use a Dodge 2005 Ram 2500 with a 5.9 and a few intake and exhaust brake with a 12 ton gooseneck. I can/have hauled M113s with very little problem. (about 27000k trailer and vehicle combined). have a Class E license in Ga and have NOT FOR HIRE marked on the trailer. I skipp most weight stations with no problem.
 

teletech

Active member
426
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Location
santa cruz,ca
The recovery:
I bought the truck about 1000 miles away, perhaps not the smartest move but if I were smart I wouldn't be doing half the things I do.
The flight went well, though at security the TSA were rather perplexed by my positive-pressure hood and blower. I know I got a lot of looks and I'm sure some pictures were taken in the airport of a guy in full containment gear. If trying to be a responsible traveller and not spread anything around makes me a bit of a spectacle, it's a price I"m willing to pay, particularly since apparently only about 10% of the population knows how far 6' is. Anyway, taxi to the yard, do a little paperwork and there's my truck, big as life and twice as ugly.
There's a lot of little bends an crinkles but nothing that will detract from it's function. Hop in and go.
First impression: I LOVE the gearing in this thing! I'm 15.5K empty and with the 5+2 gearing setup it goes really well (empty) I'm sure it will be a pig full but oh well.
I know some folks hate the 2-speed axles as being trouble prone, but the extra gears and the lower engine RPM are a huge win. The noise level and feel in the cab dropping the couple hundred RPM over my single-speed axle rig is really noticeable. The shifter on the 5-speed is long, hard (sometimes uncomfortably so), and vague and I do miss a few shifts. Oil pressure is great and the motor runs well, not a lot of slobber evident from the road-draft tube.
3-hours later: What the [REDACTED], this [REDACTED] back axle is a huge [REDACTED]! Despite following the instructions, the back axle is very prone to wind up in neutral, pretty much requiring me to roll to a stop and fool with it at very low speeds for a minute to get it to shift. It does pretty well going into low, but high is much harder. I decide to get it in high and live with it. The truck is empty so this is actually a pretty viable strategy. I look down and see no oil pressure! Then it's back, then gone... OK, better check it out. I get pulled over and find turning the key won't kill the engine. Open the hood and find someone has replaced the solenoid with a stop-cable, fine but I feel dumb for not doing a better pre-flight check. Shut it down and verify there is plenty of clean oil. I decide from the behaviour it's almost certainly the gauge so... lovely... it makse the rest of the trip reading mostly really nicely but sometimes nothing at all, gotta be the gauge or the motor would have been toast long ago. I wish I could split gears on some of the grades but otherwise it's fine. It's also the case that with the truck empty, first gear is mostly only needed starting up a fair grade so functionally I'm driving it as a four-speed. Well, the automatic isn't much better so moving on. Motor revs fairly well until about 2200 but then stop shortly thereafter, note to self to adjust the governor.
Day 2: truck seems slower today, still cruising comfortably and about the slowest thing on the road. I'm worried about fuel filters being obstructed. Hmm, how I step on the accelerator pedal seems to matter....
Day 2, a couple hours after noticing the pedal angle matters to top speed, the truck seems even slower, then I loose pretty much all power. The accelerator pedal hinge at the bottom has come loose in it's mount. The mount is rotted through and the pivot pin has worn through on one side. Luckily there is a Dollar-Store just at the nearest exit. A pair of pliers and one of those hooks your wife buys to hang more clothes on the back of the door later and I'm back on the road. I used the pliers to break off the extra hook and the flat-bent plate that hang over the door, and the remaining hook is the same diameter as the old pin. I still have to be careful how I mash the pedal and it slips out sometimes, but it gets me the remaining ~600 miles. I still haven't sat down and figured fuel consumption but looks like it's in the 7-8MPG range I expect from these trucks. Mid-day I start to smell coolant. Yep, water-pump leak.
Refill and drive, at least the temperature gauge is reliable. :-\ After 40 miles of so the leak is worse, another 20 and if the gas-station water-fill is really slow I barely can put it in fast enough to ever get it full. My range is about 10 miles I think, never overheats and I'm always leaking when I stop so it never ran dry, but it's really slow-going and once in a while I hear belt slip which makes me suspect the pump might be ready to seize. At 2300 I have long since given up getting home that night. 100 miles from home I find a room and try to get some sleep. The next morning I call up a friend in the next town about 15 miles away, I can't even finish a sitrep before he tells me his tools are in the car and he'll be there in a half-hour. It's nice to be resourceful and take responsibility, but it's awesome and a little humbling to know you have friends who have your back! He turns up and call a friend back by his place who has a yard and a little calling around determines if you speak slowly and carefully, you can still get a water pump from the local New-Holland dealer. Unfortunately the one in town is out of stock, the one 80 miles away has two on the shelf though. Luckily a little more calling around and of all places, the O'Riely store in town near the yard can have one by lunchtime! Limping the 15 miles to the yard I hear more severe belt slip, I'm really glad I didn't try to go farther. The water pump belts don't drive the airbrake compressor or the power-steering and the fan is a remote-mount so it might not cost my radiator if it let go, but still... His buddy cleared a swath of driveway and brought out a box of tools. It's not that nasty a job and with the tilt-hood I neither had to stoop nor climb and hunch over the motor, some of the fasteners were uninterested in moving but otherwise an easy job. Get a ride over to the store to find the truck was late. My buddy takes me home and makes me lunch, go back and get the part. Luckily it was the right part, you never know with those guys. At $206 it was more money than a dealer part from Ford or New Holland and more than 2X the online price, but $100 convenience fee is better than another night in a hotel or a trip back later!
The pump casting and machining is pretty crude and it's a little hard to get lined-up, but it goes on and I'm back on the road. The rest of the trip home was uneventful, apart from getting to my shop and really realizing that it just won't really fit in my parking lot without moving cars around and taking three spaces and half the loading ramp diagonally.

I will note that, yes, the drop-axle has brakes and also that the 5-speed means I get useful engine braking so it's a much nicer truck than my #18000 pound service truck down the long steep hills, so I feel better about the purchase for the expected-use once I get some repairs and modifications taken care of.
 

teletech

Active member
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santa cruz,ca
It fits! I bought the truck not knowing then length of the bed less the length of the ramps. I figured it was going to be close and worst-case I could chop a little off the ends of the ramps. The APC is a half-foot longer so turns out it's just about perfect.
Just a bare hull, but it's a bare hull that's out of my shop for the first time in years and ready to be sandblasted at long last!
Getting it up the ramps was a bit arduous with just the one pair of road-wheels and the forks on my lift are really short.
Now I need to get it chained up and go to the local scale, I've been wondering what a bare hull weighs. based on how the foklift ran it's sort of close to the weight of a Mk1 Ferret.
DSC_0606.JPG
DSC_0608.JPG
 
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