Missouri MV titling under attack and review

[Tanner]

The problem with that is that they title and license limousines. Can't have it both ways.

Limos typically start out with two halves of a vehicle with legitimate VIN's, FMVSS decals & safety features... then the length is added in middle.

Not a good analogy. This won't help your case -

'Tanner'

 

[Tanner]

In charge? Really? Here I thought they represented us citizens and are beholden to the law as we are.

To say that politicians can make stuff up and we have to just live with it 'because they are in charge' is .... well, un-American. We need more people like a1abdj who will hold their feet to fire and fewer people who roll over and accept illegal behavior from politicians and bureaucrats.

Define 'illegal behavior from politicians'... opcorn:

Does any rule on the books in Missouri state that they MUST give you a title? Where is the precedent? Did anyone do their due Diligence to see if there would be any titling issues before purchasing the vehicle?

'Tanner'

 

[gerrykan]

I still think this goes back to the Highway Patrol Inspector classifying your truck as "Not for highway use.
The statutes quoted previuosly states: the Inspector is to verify the VIN, and determine the classification of the vehicle.
Once he classified it as off road only, DOR can reject your registration.
That is why they keep pointing you to the State Patrol.

I would try to get the classification changed, as it obviously has affected others.

 

[a1abdj]

Limos typically start out with two halves of a vehicle with legitimate VIN's, FMVSS decals & safety features... then the length is added in middle.

I used to be in the limousine business. Once the car is cut in half, it looses its previous status. Although it gets to keep the VIN, it no longer meets any of the safety requirements. Companies that do the conversions must crash test their cars to get them recertified.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Missouri licenses all sorts of vehicles that are not required to be tested or carry certifications. Street rods are a another good example.

Does any rule on the books in Missouri state that they MUST give you a title? Where is the precedent? Did anyone do their due Diligence to see if there would be any titling issues before purchasing the vehicle?

Yes. The law spells out exactly what is required to obtain a title and license. They may have some interpretation of those laws that they can use to deny an application, but that doesn't mean that their interpretation is legal.

Military vehicles are only mentioned in the law a few places. One of them states that they are exempt from emissions testing.

I still think this goes back to the Highway Patrol Inspector classifying your truck as "Not for highway use.
The statutes quoted previuosly states: the Inspector is to verify the VIN, and determine the classification of the vehicle.
Once he classified it as off road only, DOR can reject your registration.
That is why they keep pointing you to the State Patrol.

The OP had his title recalled, and I don't believe that it had anything to do with his inspections.

The VIN inspection is supposed to be only for that. The form is pretty clear, and only includes spaces for information related to the verification of the VIN. No part of that inspection is to have anything to do with any sort of classification or any other opinion other than the VIN number.

His notation was made under the "remarks and discrepancies noted" section, which is the only part of the form that has a space for non specific information.

The state knew what this truck was before they requested the VIN verification. I find it interesting that they requested that I drive the truck, on the highways, to the inspection station, if the vehicle had been previously determined to be unsafe for highway use.

Branson is home of some of the world famous DUKW tours. They going to pull all of their commercial tags? Several tow companies have military wreckers that they use for recovery work. This issue goes well beyond just a few private owners having a problem, and if it's not nipped in the bud, may put all exisiting owners in the state in a bad position.

 

[Stan]

I would like to think that the MVPA could help with something like this. Anyone contact them?

 

[Andy1234]

Ironic, as today I received the MO titles for 2 of the M931's that I bought in MS a few months ago...

Better go find some wood to knock on.

Andy

 

[gerrykan]

The OP had his title recalled, and I don't believe that it had anything to do with his inspections.

Maybe they recalled his because the VIN was similar to yours.
I can't tell from the information given whose was rejected first.

The VIN inspection is supposed to be only for that. The form is pretty clear, and only includes spaces for information related to the verification of the VIN. No part of that inspection is to have anything to do with any sort of classification or any other opinion other than the VIN number.

According to State law, The vehicle examination shall include a verification of vehicle identification numbers and a determination of the classification of the vehicle.
So it does have something to do with the classification of the vehicle. He was following State law.

His notation was made under the "remarks and discrepancies noted" section, which is the only part of the form that has a space for non specific information.

Maybe that is where he is supposed to put his determination of classification.


I'm not trying to argue with you, but I have dealt with the DOR over many years and you are going to have to get to the root cause of their actions if you want this straightened out.
You will have to talk to many people, as they rarely seem to know what anyone else in their office is doing.
Keep track of the names of the people you talk to, as they quickly throw out the "well since we don't know who told you that, we can't help you".
I wish good luck to both of you.

 

[a1abdj]

Maybe they recalled his because the VIN was similar to yours.
I can't tell from the information given whose was rejected first.

His was. The lady from the DMV found it and told me about it while I was on the phone with her regarding my letter.

According to State law, The vehicle examination shall include a verification of vehicle identification numbers and a determination of the classification of the vehicle.
So it does have something to do with the classification of the vehicle. He was following State law.

I wasn't sent for a vehicle examination. They do those too, and it has to do with different issues. I was merely sent for a VIN verification. All they do (or are supposed to do) is look at the VIN on the vehicle, and compare it to what's on the title (or other supporting documents).

It's not supposed to have anything to do with anything else other than making sure those two numbers match.

Had they sent me down for a vehicle examination, that may be another story.

 

[RealCavDog]

Infraction testing time ! LOL!

1st Civilian owner of one of the cleanest, honestly low mile, low hours, Aviation unit parked on an airstrip, local Topeka based M35A3's out there . . . paid out the __s, or through the nose, to get one of the nicest cherries I could find . . . and did.

Strongly considering the partial trade for a clean bobbed winched singled heated hardtop A2 !

Will look at the situation after I get back from California burying my beautiful and loving 68 year old Mother.

I bought this super nice rig as a semi-daily driver, the insurance is crazy, not being old enough, and this new twist is really a drag. between all the photos on my facebook, my recovery shots on here, and the even better thread and shots from Glen, 91W350, of the recovery, it speaks for itself !

Maybe it will all work out fine, thats the vibe I got from Jefferson City, but now to find out I was the first to get recalled, well, that fits ! Honesty used to be the best policy.

1st Cavalry Division, 1st in ! LOL ! Starting to look like 1st out in the mail for a bending over !

 

[AceHigh]

Stupid stupid bureaucrats! People spend a huge amount of money and time to acquire a vehicle like these, and these idiots cause so many needless problems. They are supposed to work for us.

Hope your trip goes well, under difficult circumstances. Maybe have some good news waiting for you when you return, hopefully.

 

[73m819]

The same people behind this crap, drive a preis, and want ALL big trucks off the road, don't want drilling, ect.

 

[Tanner]

I would like to think that the MVPA could help with something like this. Anyone contact them?

Check the posts dealing with titling MV's in Wisconsin to get an example of the MVPA's assistance -

'Tanner'

 

[armytruck63]

Yeah, I know all about that...
I just thought the MVPA should know since it is happening in their back yard.

The ATHS, now they have some big friends in the trucking industry who might be able to help with this situation.

EDIT: I just noticed Tanner was replying to Stan. Oh well, I pretty much said the same thing earlier...

 

[Tanner]

The law spells out exactly what is required to obtain a title and license. They may have some interpretation of those laws that they can use to deny an application, but that doesn't mean that their interpretation is legal...

This can easily be resolved if you will simply point out to the DMV officials where in their rules & regulations it is clearly stated that you can most definitely, in no uncertain terms, force them to title/register/tag your vehicle...

It should be clear to them then, right?

 

[Tanner]

Yeah, I know all about that...
I just thought the MVPA should know since it is happeneing in their back yard.

The ATHS, now they have some big friends in the trucking industry who might be able to help with this situation.

I'm not sure that the MVPA is all that interested in anything more than parade and static display status these days - that appears to be the vibe. And the ATHS will most likely give a sympathetic ear, but waffle on assisting, as they aren't running into the ex-MV issues, as far as I've read.

 

[a1abdj]

This can easily be resolved if you will simply point out to the DMV officials where in their rules & regulations it is clearly stated that you can most definitely, in no uncertain terms, force them to title/register/tag your vehicle...

It should be clear to them then, right?

I'm hoping so, other than they wouldn't listen to an average person like me pointing it out to them. That's why I called somebody that I knew they would listen to first. I'm assuming the Highway Patrol guy heard something loud and clear, as he was calling me less than 30 minutes after a staffer made his calls.

I just don't think the problem lies there. I'm betting it's with the DMV, and that call hasn't been made yet. I bet my contact can get their attention too.

I'm not worried. As has already been mentioned, this thing is sure to work itself out. I'm confident the note the inspector left on the form had nothing to do with any of this. This has to come from somebody who sits behind a desk.

 

[RealCavDog]

Just got off a very long, but very nice call from Jefferson City, She called me, at 18:00 hrs no less !

I will send my title back, and get a new one stating "Not built to U.S. Standards" ! Will have no effect on insurance or registering, just a legal disclaimer for the state to allow them to operate on the highways.

The upside to this issue is, it will allow me to be exempt from smog tests, if I lived in the St. Louis area !

Said when she got off the phone with me, she had another call to make, will hear from him soon I'm betting, and we will both get letters explaining the change, and instructions on the complete procedure !

I am sure there will be more updates . . .or issues . . . or another shoe to drop, BUT, a win is a win !

Jay

 

[gerrykan]

Thanks for the update Jay.

I hope it works out as painless as she made it sound.

 

[Flyingvan911]

Ditto. Thanks for the update. It sounded like a VIN check gone bad then no one knew what to do so they defaulted to "no".

 

[a1abdj]

Just got off a very long, but very nice call from Jefferson City, She called me, at 18:00 hrs no less !

I will send my title back, and get a new one stating "Not built to U.S. Standards" ! Will have no effect on insurance or registering, just a legal disclaimer for the state to allow them to operate on the highways.

The upside to this issue is, it will allow me to be exempt from smog tests, if I lived in the St. Louis area !

Said when she got off the phone with me, she had another call to make, will hear from him soon I'm betting, and we will both get letters explaining the change, and instructions on the complete procedure !

I am sure there will be more updates . . .or issues . . . or another shoe to drop, BUT, a win is a win !

If it was me she was thinking about, I never got a call, or a letter. Do you remember who you spoke with?