Multifuel Deuce Injector Pump Lube

[plym49]

AFAIK the mainstream opinion regarding lubrication of the injection pumps on our multifuel Deuce engines is that yesterday's pump diesel had plenty of sulfur to lubricate the pump, and today's low-sulfur pump diesel does not.

So, add something (2-cycle oil, a fuel additive, whatever) to the tank to make sure that your IP gets some lube.

I am on board with this but have a question.

What about gasoline? Multifuel engines can run on regular gas. I doubt that there is anything in gasoline that would lubricate the IP.

My question is 'what does this mean'?

- Does it mean that we really have nothing to fear from today's low-sulfur pump diesel?

- Or does it mean that extended running of gasoline in a multifuel Deuce is a recipe for disaster?

Inquiring minds - I have never run gasoline in my Deuce and never would except in an emergency situation - but I am curious as to the facts behind this one.

 

[02smokemaker]

I run 1oz of outboard 2 stroke oil(ashless) per gallon of diesel. I've been doing this for years with nothing but great results with all my diesels!
As for the other question I don't have a solid answer.

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[plym49]

I run 1oz of outboard 2 stroke oil(ashless) per gallon of diesel. I've been doing this for years with nothing but great results with all my diesels!
As for the other question I don't have a solid answer.

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I'm on board with that. I most always add 2-stroke oil unless a good fuel conditioner is at hand.

I was passing a diesel station and that got me thinking about what low-sulfur diesel actually means to us.

 

[02smokemaker]

It means quicker wear for all parts lubricated by the diesel. New engines are designed for it but the old ones need the lubrication! It still amazes me if you take an older diesel running on the ulsd then add the 2 stroke how quickly it smoothes out and how much quieter it is. There was a big study done on it. I will see if I can find the results.

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[02smokemaker]

Found it

 

[jbayer]

So, add something (2-cycle oil, a fuel additive, whatever) to the tank to make sure that your IP gets some lube.
I am on board with this but have a question.
What about gasoline? Multifuel engines can run on regular gas. I doubt that there is anything in gasoline that would lubricate the IP.
My question is 'what
- Or does it mean that extended running of gasoline in a multifuel Deuce is a recipe for disaster?
does this mean'?

Yes
Recipe for disaster.
If you have deep pockets with lots of money, go for it.
Read the TM's.
The multi-fuel was not designed to to run on straight regular gasoline.You still have to add lubricant.

In a war situation, life on the line, who cares, run it on straight gasoline.

 

[rustystud]

So, add something (2-cycle oil, a fuel additive, whatever) to the tank to make sure that your IP gets some lube.
I am on board with this but have a question.
What about gasoline? Multifuel engines can run on regular gas. I doubt that there is anything in gasoline that would lubricate the IP.
My question is 'what
- Or does it mean that extended running of gasoline in a multifuel Deuce is a recipe for disaster?
does this mean'?

Yes
Recipe for disaster.
If you have deep pockets with lots of money, go for it.
Read the TM's.
The multi-fuel was not designed to to run on straight regular gasoline.You still have to add lubricant.
In a war situation, life on the line, who cares, run it on straight gasoline.

That's exactly what the ability to run on gas was for, an emergency situation. I think I mentioned a few weeks a go of a "little outing" we had in the Marines, where we took out all our trucks. They didn't give us enough fuel for the mission so we had to use what was there. Some diesel, some gasoline, some aviation fuel, some kerosene, and some engine oil. We mixed it up and ran our trucks. Of course it was a training exercise and was to teach us to "adapt, improvise, and overcome" . Now during this exercise we never ran straight gasoline at anytime. It was used to "cut" the other fuels especially when running engine oil.

 

[JDToumanian]

I use 2-stroke oil, I get it in gallon jugs from AutoZone... Pennzoil brand, I think. It's thicker than the watery WalMart stuff The Diesel Stop tested, and I use it at 160:1 instead of 200:1. It's amazing to me how good biodiesel did in those tests... If there was biodiesel available around here (I've got better things to do than make it myself), I would just use that instead.

Jon

 

[Katavic918]

I think the tm says to add 1 quart of motor oil per 25 gallons of gasoline. But also says to do this in a emergency and to drain the tank and fill with diesel as soon as possible.

To the original question. I always add either stanadyne lubricity formula or ashless 2 cycle. I used to use new transmission fluid but was worried about it tinting my fuel to look like I was mixing off road diesel.

 

[Robo McDuff]

Glad I saw this, never occurred my mind. Does this go equally for the larger/stronger 5-ton multifuel?

Other question. In my old cars, I start using Shell V-Power diesel. Thought about doing the same for the M51A2 Multifuel, at least in the beginning to get things clean and good running.

According WIKI

V-Power Diesel is a blend of regular petroleum-based diesel and synthetic diesel, created using gas to liquids (GTL), along with some extra additives designed to clean the injection system and improve injection pump and injector lubricity.

I do notice that the car is a bit more quiet, and gets a whee bit better mileage, but my main argument is that it seems to help the engine burn cleaner and preserve the engine and cleans-lubricates injectors.

Any experience or comments on that, would that work as well as additives?

Edit: my diesel cars last very long even with oil-loosing engines etc. My current Peugeot 307 SW 1.9 TDI has over 250 000 miles (405 000 km, of which I did 170 000 km in 5 years) and still looking and running good. My record was a similar but older 1.9 TD in a Citroen BX clocking out at over 460 000 km (almost 290 000 miles). That engine went into a more than century old Dutch 60-foot sailing cargo ship (tjalk) and continued for several years (maybe even today).

 

[Caseymikl]

I haven't used the 2 stroke oil yet in mine. But I did add some motor oil into my deuce tank. Runs good, of course that's mixed in with about 30 gallons of diesel.


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[frank8003]

I just use new motor oil and diesel
Runs good.
I am reducing from 100% NMO [new catagory, you have not seen that one before, huh] to 50% new useless diesel and 50% NEW MOTOR OIL.
In my thoughts, driving only 500 miles a year, this is in the save a engine category.
I would really like to pass it all on to someone that cares.
The new diesel is crap and it will harm your multifuel at 100%
OK I said it

 

[glcaines]

All the way back in 1970 the Army told us to never burn straight gasoline, that the multi-fuel function was only for emergency situations and that if we did use gasoline to try and use it at no more than 50% with diesel. We were never instructed to add motor oil or any other additive. I have a 1969 Kaiser M35A2 and a 1998 M35A3 that I run straight diesel in with no additives. I've been driving the A2 for around 8 years and the A3 for around 6 years with no problems with either. I've never added gasoline to the tanks. I've put a lot of miles on both.

 

[rustystud]

All the way back in 1970 the Army told us to never burn straight gasoline, that the multi-fuel function was only for emergency situations and that if we did use gasoline to try and use it at no more than 50% with diesel. We were never instructed to add motor oil or any other additive. I have a 1969 Kaiser M35A2 and a 1998 M35A3 that I run straight diesel in with no additives. I've been driving the A2 for around 8 years and the A3 for around 6 years with no problems with either. I've never added gasoline to the tanks. I've put a lot of miles on both.

The "new" diesel fuel is ultra low sulpher and does not have any lube for the injection pump, or injectors. So adding some "additives" is a good thing to keep your engine running . My brother found this out the hard way a few months ago. He has been retired for several years now and just recently got a new Chevy Silverado 1 ton to tow his fifth-wheel. He was driving through Montana and his engine started to run like crap. He barely made it into Missoula. The shop there found seven of his injectors had been totally ruined. So after a complete new set of injectors he made it here to Washington to see me. The shop asked him what brand of additive he was using. He replied "what additive ? " . I told him when he got here that you must use additives with any diesel engine now a days. The shop there in Montana said he was lucky the injection pump still worked. At the transit agency we lost over 200 injection pumps when they switched over to the "ultra low sulpher fuel" before we caught on to what was happening. Now our injection pump in the multifuel engine is a very robust pump and can take a lot of abuse, but it too needs the additives to live a long life. Either add the additives or be ready to replace the Hydraulic Head on a regular basis, and the injectors.

 

[Merc1973]

I run XDP power plus in mine. I would say the injectors are 50% quieter (less clatter) and idles smoother when using it compared to plain regular ultra low sulfur diesel. Always starts within 3 seconds of cranking in 30+ degree F weather. Cheap insruance to protect your injector system.

http://www.xtremediesel.com/XDP-Diesel-Power-Plus-Fuel-Additive-XDDPP116.aspx


I also dump in the deuce tank old weed wacker or chainsaw gas mix that is getting older than a couple months. I just started buying the premixed stuff at home depot to avoid wasting it.

 

[Tracer]

I use Diesel Kleen. It has an additive to lubricate and protect pumps and injectors. If I don't have any on hand I use Valvoline 2-cycle oil. The Deuce runs and idles smooth, and pulls the hills better with Diesel Kleen. Diesel Kleen also makes a winter blend that removes water and prevents icing.

 

[frank8003]

OK, just say for instance......
300 mile range
A gallon an hour just idling and 6 to 8 GPH at full combat load and speed.

Just say that one is trying to preserve a truck and engine and running gear that will never ever see another combat load, speed, various drivers, or danger.

Why would anyone in their right mind mix todays useless diesel [for the multi-fuel]
with todays useless gasoline/ethanol mix in a 48 year old multi fuel engine is beyond me.

If anybody would want the specifications for the military diesel fuel of 1969 as against todays' commercially available diesel fuel that information is available. They will have to wait a month for me to look it all up and study it all again.

Apparently new motor oil used as fuel works better than UMO, WMO, VO, UVO, whathaveyou, thingahmajing oil, old or new heating oil, or a whole bunch of other stuff like steam turbine oil new or used, turbine fuel or even Marvel mystery oil.

Look, just go buy a gallon of naphtha at the depot and dump it in
there to clean the injectors.
It was not rocket science in 69 and it still isn't.

So go to the place where new motor oil of all types is literally
thrown in the trash everyday and get some for free.

 

[F18hornetM]

I agree with everyone on adding additives for our old trucks. but I've gotta say the company i work for has over 2400 diesel powered trucks and equipment and we use no additive in them at all. Most are fueled at retail stations. So they get all kinds of diesel fuel. again in mine i run an additive but at work we really have not much fuel related issues. We have mostly emission issues. New engines are designed to run on the fuel that's sold.

 

[rustystud]

I agree with everyone on adding additives for our old trucks. but I've gotta say the company i work for has over 2400 diesel powered trucks and equipment and we use no additive in them at all. Most are fueled at retail stations. So they get all kinds of diesel fuel. again in mine i run an additive but at work we really have not much fuel related issues. We have mostly emission issues. New engines are designed to run on the fuel that's sold.

In the last ten years injection pump technology has reached a new high. The tolerances are tighter and the control is far superior to the older pumps. Since they cannot use the fuel as a lubricant anymore they are using better bearings and more engine oil to lube critical parts. More "Teflon" seals are also present. But most manufactures still recommend you use a fuel additive for the injection pumps and injectors. They of course recommend "their" product but any good additive will help.

 

[winfred]

except for maybe the bosch pump in the common rail 11-16 duramax, 2 cylinder v pump with 3 lobe cam driving unkeyed roller plungers, at random times a plunger studders from straight and true and scars the cam surface and resulting metal erodes pressure regulator #2 till one day it won't retain enough pressure to start (will fire and idle like crap on 1200 but wants 5000psi, working range is 5000-29000psi) repair is replacing everything that diesel touches under hood, seen em go as low as 4700 miles on the clock and i am highly motivated to find fuel contamination or aftermarket programming as the cash ticket time is roughly 50% more but most of them end up as warranty though. i hear the 6.7 ford uses the same crappy pump

In the last ten years injection pump technology has reached a new high. The tolerances are tighter and the control is far superior to the older pumps. Since they cannot use the fuel as a lubricant anymore they are using better bearings and more engine oil to lube critical parts. More "Teflon" seals are also present. But most manufactures still recommend you use a fuel additive for the injection pumps and injectors. They of course recommend "their" product but any good additive will help.