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My M135 Quad cab

JerseyHick

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Gunfreak.. Just the man I wanted to talk to.
First off, thanks. And yes I'm gonna repower. I wasn't quite sure if the 700r4 would hold op to a big block and 14,000 lbs.
To be honest I was just gonna wait and see how long yours lasted, before I buy one:) 4L80's are WAY outa my price range!
Did you ever get to drive yours with the th400? Was it a dog with the 2.48 1st gear?
Ive been following your build for a long time.. Great job, it's pretty sweet!!!
 

Gunfreak25

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Hick, the kind words are much appreciated. I want to apologize for the lack of updates, you know how it goes though. Priorities and that little thing called life start to rear their ugly faces at you for some much needed attention. I'll get back to it, probably sooner than I would imagine too. Call it a brief intermission if you will...

Onto your setup. No. I did not get to drive it with the Th400. However if i've ever been called one thing it's a "research whore" and as such i've come to the conclusion over the past few years of doing nothing but reading, research and numbers crunching through various forums that the Th400, while being a superbly built transmission, is not the best choice for this application. If you take into account the GMC's permanent 15% underdrive built into the transfer your effectively looking at 6.33 axles. Not cool for engine life or mileage, and with today's build tech and newer aftermarket tranny parts there's no reason to restrict yourself to just a Th400 anymore.

As far as weight goes, remember your GMC weighs 14,000 but it also has gears to suit that weight. Not all things being equal, but the "gear to weight" ratio is basically the same as a M1008 1 ton CUCV. So "stress" wise your engine/tranny will be under the same load as it would see in a lightly loaded pickup. You can quickly see how even the so called "weak" 700 is perfectly suited for such a vehicle. Throw in a couple aftermarket parts and run a huge tranny cooler and you should have zero problems even using the GMC to tow it's rated 10,000lbs.

Tom at Alfa Heaven who I will credit for initially giving me the idea about the 6.2/700r4 swap said he had more than a couple GMC's with the setup that he used to haul upwards of 1500 to 2000 gallons of water at 70mph, routinely and with no issues. Granted, he did admit they do best stuck in 3rd whilst towing, but for normal highway/unladen cruising your bet you can use every bit of that 4th gear and lockup converter function. Actually, he told me he used to haul some loads in 4th locked up, and his trick to keeping the tranny alive was to simply stay at a speed where the fluid temp stayed constant.

Probably more info than you wanted, but I haven't been posting much lately and i've been getting olive drab withdrawals.

I think the biggest factor is your motor, like you already mentioned. But now a day's, you can build the 700 (and inexpensively I might add) to take just about anything most of us normal guys can throw at them. I believe raptor has a new one out rated at 750hp. Amazing stuff, tranny tech has come a long way. Subscribed to this thread. You, me, M1010Plowboy and a few choice others will be gathering our GMC's for a little rally someday. You can bet on it.
 
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JerseyHick

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Thanks Freak.
The hi way driving is gonna be a killer with the th400. If finance improve I'll start looking for a reasonabaly priced 700r. I'm hoping to put some serious miles on it this summer.

Just thinking out loud...
Gunfreak, hendersond, sec8, plow boy, hick and a the others. Not to mention, I'm sure, theirs many others that haven't chimed in yet... Sounds like we may have our own G749 modification/hot rod forum... Or at least a support group:-D
 
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Section8

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Just a thought but, I have also been looking at different trannies for my application, the one that I keep concidering is the M41 six speed made by Allison.
It is specifically build for medium duty applications such as city garbage trucks.
I think it would have no problem in anything we put the rigs through plus the added benifit of six gears!!
There has been one kicking around near me for 250. Would just need to get an adaptor plate.
More thought for food for ya!
 

Gunfreak25

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Thanks Freak.
The hi way driving is gonna be a killer with the th400. If finance improve I'll start looking for a reasonably priced 700r. I'm hoping to put some serious miles on it this summer.

Just thinking out loud...
Gunfreak, hendersond, sec8, plow boy, hick and a the others. Not to mention, I'm sure, theirs many others that haven't chimed in yet... Sounds like we may have our own G749 modification/hot rod forum... Or at least a support group:-D
[In my best British accent]....I concur old boy, we chaps need a place to discuss the upgrade slash modification of these wondrous vehicles, I myself would support such a sub forum and although the opposition would be fierce, if we stick our bums together on this i'm sure we can pull through and make it happen. The opposition in this case being "purists". I respect anyone who does a complete resto on these truck's, just as I respect anyone who wishes to modify theirs for increased wow factor and pleasure. [end of British accent]

You can pickup a solid 700 post 1988 for $200 if you shop. Go one step further and nab one with a transfer on the back to get back a low range if you so desire. I'm dropping my GMC transfer some day in favor of an M35 air shift unit. Some day....that would give me the Np231 low and air shift low for dual under drive. Yeah baby.
 

JerseyHick

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I respct the purist point of view.. I don't even mind them breaking my stones.

But.. We have to admit, the M35 guys have all the coolest modded rigs.
We gotta step it up.. Can't let them have all the fun!!:smile:
 

m1010plowboy

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To be honest I was just gonna wait and see how long yours lasted, before I buy one:) Was it a dog with the 2.48 1st gear?
That is hilarious......and educational at the same time.

Gunfreak says the nicest things but try it with an Irish accent after some rum and eggnog.

My TM's don't say anything about this stuff. So what kind of performance did Majortom get out of his cheapest, easiest conversion? Gunfreak, what if a guy eliminated the desire for 6x and just wanted to keep one rolling under it's designed speed of 58mphish? Trying to get my head around 2.48 first gear and 6.33 4th and it all adds up to more rum and eggnog.


Hope it's cool that I post the few 're-power' G-749 threads up here on your crew-cab thread. I see that you jumped into the hot rodding forum so wasn't sure where to add this. I think if we include all you're doing to your truck on this primary thread it'll be easier for old guys like me to follow along.

Finding an easy way to re-power the G-749 is important. Not many guys keep at it and bring them to running condition because they are a pig so unless 'support' continues, more will look like this! http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?51721-Can-you-find-the-MV-in-this-photo


A few re-power threads and one with a groovy movie of a diesel deuce
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?32226-Fired-up-the-M135-today
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?38454-6-2-GMC-Engine-swap
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?57638-7-3L-international-in-a-deuce/page2
http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?21734-Need-pics-of-engine-swap-M215
 

JerseyHick

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.

''Finding an easy way to re-power the G-749 is important. Not many guys keep at it and bring them to running condition because they are a pig so unless 'support' continues, more will look like this! http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?51721-Can-you-find-the-MV-in-this-photo ''

Kicking myself for not taking ''before'' pics.. My truck wasnt in much better shape than that when i acquired it!

Thanks for the heads up. Ill keep all my future changes on this thread.
Ill post engine/trans build and the step by step repower if thats OK..
When doing the repower, im hoping to piggyback off the original motor mounts, i dont want to butcher anything or alter the chassis in any way.
If it all works out as i plan... I will be able to swap back to the original motor/trans in one weekend.
Ill give all the details as they come.
 
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NDT

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I'm dropping my GMC transfer some day in favor of an M35 air shift unit.
That won't work!!! You will discover the same thing that the CCKW guys did after WWII that tried to put a Timken transfer where a GMC transfer used to be in a banjo axle truck. The front driveshaft turns the wrong way.
 

Stan Leschert

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That won't work!!! You will discover the same thing that the CCKW guys did after WWII that tried to put a Timken transfer where a GMC transfer used to be in a banjo axle truck. The front driveshaft turns the wrong way.
I suppose that you could drop an M135 body onto an M35 drive train, but unless you already have the parts and an unlimted labor source ....
Not sure that it's worth it unless you want bragging rights.
 

hendersond

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That won't work!!! You will discover the same thing that the CCKW guys did after WWII that tried to put a Timken transfer where a GMC transfer used to be in a banjo axle truck. The front driveshaft turns the wrong way.
There is a thread I posted in earlier this year, I think GF was in it too. (really) People have been flipping the center sections within the housing. Requires a little grinding, But can be done easily to reverse the rotation. Mud boggers and pullers have been doing his for 30+ years. Does the airshift transfer case have twin rear output shafts?
 

350TacoZilla

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There is a thread I posted in earlier this year, I think GF was in it too. (really) People have been flipping the center sections within the housing. Requires a little grinding, But can be done easily to reverse the rotation. Mud boggers and pullers have been doing his for 30+ years. Does the airshift transfer case have twin rear output shafts?
I have my center flipped to driver side low pinion to work with the 5spd and transfer case I had in truck at time. only grinding was the diff cover I had to remove some of the ribs. It is alot easier to flip it to driver side and standard rotation like that then it is to flip it and keep pass side rotation, if you do that you have to cut one axle shaft down about 1/2-3/4" and then the other side doesnt fully engage the spider gears (still in the spline fully but doesnt stick out flush like do from factory). I also left the knuckles on the housing and turned them with it so tie rod was in front of axle, rather than trying to mod tie rod to fit around the center section around back like factory.

345d42744ec0__1283365205000 (Large).jpg

on the 700r4 debate a 700 has lower first gear than a 400 + OD so it would be decent trans for a mild big block I think, also the later 4l60e is a good trans even if its not as beefy as the 4l80e. I also think you could use the allison auto that came in 80's GM flatbed and dump trucks as they bolt right to the bigblock. AT545 they are a heavy duty trans and have no problems with 30K+ trucks,have a great 3.45 first but 1.1 fourth. I have bought and sold 700r's for $75-250 and the 545 can be had for $200-400 for a usable one.

ALLISON AT 545 SPECIFICATIONS
General Purpose Truck and Motorhome Rating
Net input power235 hp (175 kW)
Net input torque445 lb-ft (603 N·m)
Vehicle weightUp to 30,000 lbs (13,608 kg) GVW or GCW
ENGINE INTERFACE
Acceptable full-load engine governed speed2400-4000 rpm (diesel)
3200-4000 rpm (gasoline)
[FONT=arial,helvetica]Minimum engine idle speed
(with transmission in drive)
[/FONT]
[FONT=arial,helvetica]500 rpm[/FONT]
MECHANICAL RATIOS (RANGE)*
First
3.45:1
Second
2.25:1
Third
1.41:1
Fourth
1.00:1
Reverse
-5.03:1
OIL SYSTEM
Oil typeDexron® III, C4
Capacity (excluding external circuit)20.0 qts (18.9 liters) standard oil pan
Capacity (excluding external circuit)15.0 qts (14.2 liters) optional shallow oil pan
Filters ? main and cooler (optional)Replaceable element, remote mounted
[HR][/HR]
SIZE
Length*27.2 in (691 mm)
Depth (below transmission centerline w/standard oil pan)11.2 in (284 mm)
Depth (below transmission centerline w/optional shallow oil pan)9.7 in (246 mm)
Weight267 lbs (121 kg)
 
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350TacoZilla

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Hancock MD
I took a NV3500 and transfer case( I think it was a 241) out of 91 IFS chevy truck so I would have OD to go with the 6.17's and 43's. I ended up dropping truck back down onto normal axles with 4.10's and 37's. I kept the trans but switched to a solid axle np208 to get pass drop back.
 

350TacoZilla

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Hancock MD
johnny law in md doesnt seem to like the giant lifted trucks and I decided to use truck more as a dd/work truck than play toy.

actually gearing was good, I sat and figured it all up before ever taking truck apart. Truck stock was 2wd 4spd 350 work truck, when I got it it had been converted to 700r4 3.73 3/4 ton with the stock 350 and it was gutless so i decided on the engine swap from my farm truck which was a 6.2 4spd manual 3/4 ton with 4.10's.

.73 5th gear + 6.17 gears + 43" tires = 2112rpm@60mph

stock 6.2 truck was 4 spd manual with 4.10's

1.00 4th gear + 4.10 gears + 33" tires = 2505rpm@60mph

4.56's would have been 2786rpm! screaming but thats what cucv trucks came with ( i had one and always worried rods were going to appear through hood lol)

here is pic of truck when just put axles under (still drums and 9.00ndt's) sitting next to my farm truck that gave up his engine.
 

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