New 6.2L Rebuild, Won't start

[Mg84648]

I rebuilt my 6.2 over the summer and my Dad and I dropped it in Christmas Eve. I've been fighting with it ever since.
It has an electric fuel pump and manual glow plug switch.
This is what I've done so far.
I turned the key to run and opened the bleed valve on top of the filter housing until clear diesel ran for a cup or so then closed it. Took the glow plugs out and cracked all the injector lines until fuel dripped from all of them. Tightened the lines, reinstalled the glow plugs, glowed for 10 seconds and tried to start. Nothing. It motored but failed to light off.
I checked each glow plug lead and they have between 9.5 VDC and 12.5 VDC when glow plug button is pushed. Each glow plug also ohms good.
The injection pump was sent off for overhaul so I though maybe the shutoff solenoid wasn't opening enough. I have 12 VDC at the pink lead when key is on. I can also hear the solenoid energizing. I swapped out the IP cover with a known serviceable one and still no joy. Also, the IP cover was full of diesel.
I thought about a timing issue but that was completed correctly as my OCD made me take pictures of the timing mark during assembly
So really the only two things left are compression and injectors. As far as compression, when I removed the glow plugs the engine spins over super easy and fast. With them installed the starter is obviously fighting compression and spinning normally. The ejectors where purchased NOS still in the sealed bags.

So I guess what I'm asking is besides doing a compression check and continuing to bleed the injection lines, what am I missing? I've motored and bleed the lines for an hour each day since Christmas.
BTW, My oil pump is working because my oil pressure light extinguishes when cranking and illuminates 3 seconds after stopping so I don't think I'm damaging the motor by this excessive cranking or am I wrong?

What am I missing?

 

[richingalveston]

it sounds like timing. how far did you break the motor down, did you mess with the timing chain also and not just the iP gear.
IF it "motored" meaning it partially fired but would not run, It is either fuel delivery problem which it sounds like you checked that and it is ok. it is most likely a timing problem.

you can rotate the ip as much as possible each direction and see if it makes it "motor" more or less. If it makes a difference then you probably have the timing chain off a tooth or the ip gear off a tooth.

I am putting togather a 6.5 at this time and my biggest concern is getting the timing right.
compression will not make it not start unless it is really bad in all cylinders. It will normally idle with bad compression you just wont have any power. I doubt you have a compression problem.
since you have fuel at the injectors I doubt it is a fuel delivery problem.

 

[Mg84648]

Rich,
It was a complete rebuild. I've got pictures on my other phone of the timing chain sprockets and IP to cam gears being dead nuts. I was also scared to death I would be off on timing so I snapped pics.
The only thing is I don't smell any diesel in the exhaust. I figured I'd smell diesel if my injectors were squirting.

Super frustrating.

 

[Barrman]

How many times did you try and start it? Just because you have fuel seeping at the injectors doesn't mean all the air is gone. Also, if you IP was dry, it will take 30-45 seconds of cranking to get pressurized fuel to the injectors. Even then it will probably do no more that puff and chug a little. Another 15-30 seconds of cranking should have it going then.

What kind of glow plugs did you put in? just because you have 12 volts to them, doesn't mean they are actually glowing and not burned out already.

Check your timing as those above have already questioned. This is a I hope you didn't stop cranking in 10 second burst with a few minutes between burst too soon post.

 

[richingalveston]

I agree with barman, maybe you need to crank it some more.
you can pull the glow plugs and crank it until you smell some diesel.
In order to prime the entire system it will take some cranking and the faster you can spin it the faster it will start.

The glow plugs removed will keep the wear and tear off the starter while getting it primed.

keep trying.

 

[Chaski]

I agree with barman, maybe you need to crank it some more.
you can pull the glow plugs and crank it until you smell some diesel.
In order to prime the entire system it will take some cranking and the faster you can spin it the faster it will start.

The glow plugs removed will keep the wear and tear off the starter while getting it primed.

keep trying.

Yep. What he said.

Pull the glow plugs and turn it over until you have diesel fog launching out of all 8 glow plug holes.

What kind of resistance read are you getting on one glow plug? Seems like a good one is about an ohm.

Also don't be afraid to move your pump around like suggested. Cold starts require advanced timing. Have you checked your fuel return to be unrestricted and your cold start solenoid?

 

[Mg84648]

Yep. What he said.

Pull the glow plugs and turn it over until you have diesel fog launching out of all 8 glow plug holes.

What kind of resistance read are you getting on one glow plug? Seems like a good one is about an ohm.

Also don't be afraid to move your pump around like suggested. Cold starts require advanced timing. Have you checked your fuel return to be unrestricted and your cold start solenoid?

All my plugs measured between .9 and 1.1 ohms from the contact to the threads.

Ive been turning it over with plugs out and lines cracked since Christmas. I've never gotten fog to come out of the glow plug holes.

Cold start solenoid checks good but I haven't checked the fuel return.

 

[M543A2]

Not familiar with these in particular, but to the basics, is the supply line from the tank to the electric pump working as it should? Take the outflow line off the electric pump and run it to see if you have good fuel flow.
If there is a rubber line connecting any of the fuel line from the tank to your electric pump I have seen them look good on the outside but the inside liner has come loose and will suck shut when fuel is drawn through it.

 

[richingalveston]

if you have been cranking it that long then you for sure have a fuel delivery problem. As suggested start from the back and work your way forward. check to see that you have fuel and pressure at each point.
leaving fuel pump
entering fuel filter
exit fuel filter

only way to check IP is to keep turning it over with fuel lines cracked at the injectors.

bad fuel pumps even when new can push fuel but not under pressure. so when checking, put your finger over the end to see that the pump can make the fuel squirt. Or get a gauge to check it with.

Rich

 

[Mg84648]

Not familiar with these in particular, but to the basics, is the supply line from the tank to the electric pump working as it should? Take the outflow line off the electric pump and run it to see if you have good fuel flow.
If there is a rubber line connecting any of the fuel line from the tank to your electric pump I have seen them look good on the outside but the inside liner has come loose and will suck shut when fuel is drawn through it.

I've got good fuel flow from electric pump to filter and out to IP. Along with it being a new IP, the fuel shutoff solenoid was swapped out with a known good one. All the fuel lines are new. I guess that leaves an IP bad from stock.
Sucks.

 

[cucvrus]

Is this the same injection pump that was on the engine before you rebuilt it? And when you say rebuilt. You had the crank out and the pistons out of the block? Just asking?

 

[MtnSnow]

With the amount of cranking you have been doing to not get fuel fog out of the glowplug holes really makes me think your IP is not creating enough pressure to open the injectors because you say when you crack the lines to the injector you get fuel....but with the lines snug your not getting fuel fog....so that would mean injectors not opening due to problem with the injectors themselves (would be amazed that all of them are bad) or then IP is not creating enough pressure..

 

[ranchhopper]

Is the line on top of the pump lined up with the line on the front where the pump bolts up to if its clocked to much your timing will be off there too.

 

[ken]

Is the starter spinning the engine fast enough with the increased compression from the rebuild? Old weak starter????

 

[Chaski]

Turn it over with the glow plugs out and the injection lines tight. If you do not get a fog coming out of the glow plug holes in a minute or so you have a fuel delivery issue.

 

[Mg84648]

Rick, yup it was a full rebuild. The IP was overhauled by the guys you use, although you've had good luck with yours I'm beginning to think mine is bad from stock. I may change the IP tomorrow with a known good one. Its a lot of work but I'm dead in the water I think.

As far as the timing goes, even if it was off a tooth I should still get it to chug. That and I have no diesel mist coming out of the glow plug holes tells me Chaski may be right.

Ken,
The starter is a new 28MT gear reduction with new style front mount bracket. It spins like top! 100 times better than the original 27MT starter.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Is the starter spinning the engine fast enough with the increased compression from the rebuild? Old weak starter????

WOW, haven't seen you on in a while! Good to see you stop in once in a while.

 

[doghead]

Haha, Ken's join date says Jan 1970!

 

[gimpyrobb]

Awesome

 

[Chaski]

One last thing before you R&R the pump. Make sure the return line isn't blocked. If the return from the pump top is plugged the case pressure will rise and the pump won't pump... at all.