New CUCV, now stuck at the grocery store :)

[xyzzy]

So.. my new CUCV has been running perfect after getting the winter diesel fuel from the pump here.

However, this morning, it was a little cold, nothing unusual. Started up on third try after heating glow plugs. Let it sit and warm up, and drove around town. Ran perfect.

However, I stopped at the grocery store, and when I came out, the truck wouldn't start. The starter would not spin -- it was howerver making a "click" when turning the ignition to run.

There is plenty of juice in the batteries, but the starter would not spin. Tried a few times, and then the "click" stopped "clicking". Now there's no response whatsoever when turning the ignition.

All the interior guages/lights/etc all work just fine.

I manually crossed the posts on the starter, and it began to spin (it actually welded the damn bolt I was using across the posts) but wouldn't turn over. This could be because the car had now been sitting for a few hours and just been cold. I had to manually disconnect the batteries to get the starter to stop spinning (only span maybe 15 seconds), and removed the bolt that was welded to the posts.

So I'm figuring the solenoid just doesn't have enough juice to get the starter going? Does this seem like the most logical problem?

The starter is more or less brand new as well (not by me, but the previous owner). It's clearly fairly new as it's shiney new and clean.

Problem is now, I have to get it out of the lot before I'm towed, so short on time without paying a bunch to get it towed.

Any other ideas/suggestions or things I can test?


Thanks!!

e in aspen, co.

Also, does anyone here reside in Colorado and have a recommendation for a solid diesel mechanic in the Glenwood area? I was told Hansen Equipment was good, and if all else fails I will just get the rig towed there.

 

[MATT]

Well it sounds like you need a new starter. It could have been cranked too long and burned up or just was time to go out. I dont know what the weather is like in Aspen, but in Fort Collins it was 65 today. The starter is pretty easy to replace, just two main bolts that screw in from the botton, sometimes a shorter bolt on the end of the starter and the 2 electrical connectors. I don't know any mechanics around there. Good luck.

 

[xyzzy]

Thanks Matt.

I think I'm just going to have it towed up to Hansen Equipment even though
it's probably a 40 mile haul there. Not enough time before the lot owners
have it towed (probably the morning).

Hopefully it wont be a fortune to replace.

Does anyone have a good source/recommendation for 24 volt starters/solenoids?

Thanks!

 

[Socomsam]

Hey Matt,

I'll be in Fort Collins in about a month. Driving up from Vegas and visiting friends, then on over to Indiana on a relocation.

Glad to hear the weather is warmer, but being Colorado, that could change. I did some schooling at Lowry AFB back in the 80's and it snowed in June!

 

[Dieselsmoke]

Does anyone have a good source/recommendation for 24 volt starters/solenoids?

Thanks!

Speedometer Electric in Colorado Springs used to rebuild them for me really cheap, a bit far but I know they did good work.

 

[ZiggyO]

Hello,


I actually had the same thing happen......but i struck it lucky and was in my driveway..............there is a flat copper strap that comes from the output on the starter solenoid on the motor which runs into the case of the starter to bring power to the armature......... This is prone to crack right at the bend where it goes into the rubber grommet through the case of the motor.......... The shop who rebuilt it for me strongly advised that i occasionally check the two main mounting bolts as well as the rear support to be sure they are tight.......he said that vibration is what causes it to go (and its even more prone to go in cold weather)..............since it was fixed, i have not had a problem at all............... The shop here (in NJ) charged me about 150 for the rebuild and put in all new bearings, solenoid, starter gear, brushes, etc.......and they guarantee it for 2yrs..........Surpriringly, these guys know all about the dual voltage setup on the cucv's too and do really nice work.........

Ziggy

 

[emmado22]

I'd call the parking lot owner, let them know your working on getting it fixed and maybe they will give you a day or so.....

I just got an ebay special Humvee starter ($50 on ebay) totally rebuilt by my local auto electric shop for $50.... Alot cheaper than a new one.. Stories like this is why I have a spare....

 

[xyzzy]

I was just informed there's actually a starter relay under the dash that converts the 12 volt ignition to 24 volt lead to the starter (thanks mangus!!). From researching other people's experiences with this problem, all of the symptoms sound precisely the same.

So I'm going to go swap out the relay first thing in the morning, just to document this, the NAPA part number is #AR135.

More to follow in the morning...

Thanks everyone for the help!

 

[wallew]

xyzzy,
There is a company here in Denver that rebuilds them for the military. They just send you a rebuilt one as soon as they get yours. I can't find the card the guy gave me, but I will keep looking.

I will also look through the yellow pages also, because I think he said it was in their yellow pages ad as well.

I will try. I'll report back tomorrow. And I concur. Contact the grocery store manager and tell him the problem. MOST OF US have been there, done that and he might just be one of 'us'. IE he probably isn't real rich and has been stranded once or twice in his/her life. It can't hurt. And it might save you some big $$ on the tow.

 

[MATT]

Can anyone get a pic of this starter relay under the dash?

 

[xyzzy]

Here's a link from the repair manual which shows pretty much what and where, as well as a picture of the NAPA replacement part that apparently fits/works.

http://www.tpub.com/content/trucks1.25ton/TM-9-2320-289-20/css/TM-9-2320-289-20_254.htm

and the NAPA replacement #AR135:

We'll see if it works out tomorrow. I'll take some pictures of the process incase this is the solution to help people out in the future.

Thanks everyone.

 

[CCATLETT1984]

I wish you well, but it definitely sounds like you starter went, CLICKING IS THE DEATH SOUND OF A STARTER.

 

[mangus580]

Key thing on this guys.... His starter DID work when he jumped it with a bolt.

From what he described in chat last night, the starter isnt getting the 'signal' to the solenoid to engage.

 

[mcmullag]

Guys I know this sounds stupid but I have started about 3 stranded cars in the last 20 years with this problem (click but no starter turning, battery seems good) and here is how. Take a hammer (22 oz ballpeen works excellent) and lay on your back under the truck and give the starter motor body one or two solid thwacks and then try the key. I know this sounds stupid but it's worked at least 3 times for me. The vibration from the thwack shakes the crap off the commutator, I think and then the brushes have better contact, or something like that. A few years ago I was passing through Montrose, CO and saw a guy with the same problem stranded at a gas station. I slid under his toyota truck with my trusty ballpeen and took care of it. I'll never forget the look of joy on the wife's face when she saw they were not stranded and could get back to Pagosa Springs that day.

 

[mcmullag]

I meant 40 oz ballpeen hammer instead of 22 oz, but I have used a 20 or 22 oz carpenter type hammer too to get a starter 'unlocked'.

 

[Armada]

I had a 1008 that would do that occasionally. A couple wacks with the hammer to the starter and it would work fine!

 

[xyzzy]

Tried that already.

Got the starter relay off, heading to NAPA now for the replacement..

more to follow.

thanks to everyone for all the help

 

[xyzzy]

Ok here's the update. sigh

Went to NAPA, bought the new relay (AR135). Came back to the truck, replaced relay (key out of ignition), the relay began to smoke, and the starter began to spin (again, key out of ignition). I quickly got key in ignition, but even though starter was whirring, it wouldnt crank the motor. I disconnected the new relay to kill the starter.

I plugged the old relay in, and now, when you try to start the car, you can feel the click in the relay, so I think it's working. However, the starter still no go.

So, what's the real problem here? The starter is just dead, and functioning in a strange manner? I'm really confused at this point.

thanks.

 

[K10A]

sounds like you have 2 seperate issues . one electrical and a bad starter .

 

[MATT]

Sounds like a bad starter. I have seen weird things like this, there probably shorting with the internal parts in the solenoid/starter. As far as the new relay smoking-could be faulty, not 24 volt? Good luck