newbie got her home!

[jblueep]

Hey Guys,

I got her home today. I was definitely mislead on a few items by the auction company, but overall I think I'm happy.

The not so good first:

For one, they said it was a 1989 which seems too new to me. Turns out that it's a 1972. They also told me it was running when they took it out of service. They just failed to tell me that was 5 years ago. The engine does not turn over.

The better news:

The mechanic (on site fleet mechanic who was a very nice older gentlemen who had no reason to lie about anything) said it was the best one they had when it went out of service. Last year, after four years of sitting, they tried to put it back in service, but the engine would not turn over. The engine freeze is from sitting though, not anything that happened while operating the truck. I believe he was telling me the truth, so I'll need some help in unfreezing that engine if any of you have any suggestions. I'm thinking something like putting marvel mystery oil on the pistons for awhile or something like that.

The best news:

The odometer reads 38,473 and the hour meter reads 1,493, and I have every reason to believe these are actual.

First of all, the mechanic told me the miles/hours were original, and the city bought the truck from the military, so they are the 2nd owners and have had custody all along.

Second, the truck is very, very straight, including items like the inside of the dump bed.

Third, the interior is very dusty, but in spectacular condition given the edge. The seats aren't even ripped.

Another great item is that brakes were converted to air brakes just six months before she was retired. I can see that most of the brake system, including the pads are like new. Another thing that leads me to believe the miles/hours are actual, is that the engine is amazingly clean (dusty of course, but no fluid leaks of any kind I could find). The oil is clean and free of water. None of the differentials have any signs of leaking, etc.

Bottom line, I think I have a gem in the rough here. I realize that I'm really optimistic though.

The ID # is NL01NC-72 C123 11846. Any special info I can get from the serial # other than the year?

Missing items:

Mirrors, battery covers. Driver's side window has some cracks as does the rear slider.

Bonus items:

A bed full of tires, including 5 or 6 that will fit this truck and 3 or 4 rims that will fix this truck. Maybe I can trade some tires or wheels for the missing pieces above.

I of course had it towed. That cost $350 (about 50 miles), so I'm into this truck $2,500 so far.

Here are the pics:

Exterior:

Interior:

Engine:

New brakes:

Missing battery cover:

Bonus Tires:

Thanks for looking and any advice about anything would be appreciated as I know almost nothing about this truck

Jason

 

[devilman96]

Welcome to the world of stuff ya don't need that cost ya money ya don't have... Otherwise known as OD fever!!!

You can try MMO on the motor but 5 years is a unlikely seize up if the motor is water / damage free... Sometimes people mistake a stuck starter solenoid for seized engine. Do the obvious, pull the filters, look for metal, blah blah blah then try a tow strap and see if the motor will spin, just mind the brakes before you run over what your pulling it with... If it is frozen, engines are not free but they are not exactly expensive ether.

 

[jblueep]

The tow strap might be interested given that the brakes are now all air (air in back, and air over hydraulic in the front). Better use a long tow strap

 

[rmgill]

You can hook an air compressor up to one of the front gladhands and air up the system to get pressure to check the brakes first. Then you can try pulling it to see if the engine is free. Can the engine not be turned over by hand?

 

[jblueep]

I didn't even try myself as I knew the truck had not been started in five years, and I had a limited window of time to remove the vehicle from the storage yard. I was taking the mechanics word on the engine freeze. Who knows, maybe it's just the starter. That would be nice. I tried to hook up one of the gladhands and it twisted off :O

 

[derby]

Look's like a fine truck! when you tried to start it did ,you hear the low air buzzer? good cable ends and ground?verify 24 volts at the starter?did you hear a click when you engaged the start switch(from the starter)any humming from starter?also this may be a stretch but can you inspect the flywheel and bellhousing? i had a tractor that set in the weeds for a few years and a mouse built a nest in the bellhousing and clutch assy. locked it up tight ,split the tractor and removed a five gallon bucket of stuff!normaly, as stated earlier an engine won't just sieze up from sitting for a year as long as it stays dry and there was no mechanical damage when parked. you could pull the starter and check it out of the truck(very heavy!) for your sake i hope it is a starter or critter they are much cheaper! I would hate to hear that your first truck had major trouble right out of the gate.dont worry about what you have spent on it ,you still have a way to go before you exceed it's value.

 

[poppop]

I think you did good. I paid $2500.00 for an older dump that did not run and thought I got a good deal. It was a simple fix and did not cost anything to get it going. Your engine should not have seized in five years unless it had other problems. Check all electrical componets first and if no problems then pull slowly to see if engine is free. If not pull the injectors and put Marvel Mystery oil in the cylinders and let it sit for a few days and then try again.

 

[jblueep]

Thanks derby and popop. I actually haven't tried to turn it over at all. I was just going on what the mechanic said. The yard was only open for three hours, so I had to make the towing decision quickly. I will try your suggestions above this weekend if my wife will let me. I'm in the doghouse a little since I didn't ask before buying a $2,500 toy Any other suggestions from others would be appreciated. I'm going to compile a list of things to try and then dedicate a weekend to the process.

 

[m.walker]

I seen refuse dumptrucks go for thousands more than you paid , your still way ahead of the game ! I'd go the battery and check connections route first , I've heard people say the motor is stuck when all it was , was the starter wouldn't crank . You could probably still double your money from where your at now ! Good luck and keep us filled in on the details as you go along .

 

[JRBAMATEX]

Let me know if you need a hand. I am near by and can always use an excuse to get the deuce out.

 

[Recovry4x4]

Those brakes on the fwd axle are caged right now, I'm assuming the wrecker guys did that. Don't forget to pull the pins before actually trying to use the brakes.

 

[BKubu]

First, congrats on the truck. I love the dumps and I've had an M817 w/w. Now, on to the motor...I've been told by someone that knows much more than I do (John Winslow) that he's had several M809 series trucks with stuck motors...each had been sitting for a while. He was told by a Cummins mechanic that these motors cannot tolerate sitting for too long. He had to have the mechanic come out to his place to do an in-frame overhaul that cost about $2K if I am not mistaken (he told me this story a couple years back). You should have less than $5K in it when you are done, which is very good for an M817 and, who knows, maybe you won't have to do this much. I suggest trouble-shooting the simple things first. I've unstuck a motor by dragging the truck while it was in gear (with somene driving the other truck).

While I prefer the Cummins-powered trucks, the multi-fuels are much better able to handle sitting. They don't have the power of the Cummins motors, but they are, in my opinion, more able to handle abuse. John Winslow told me he once bought an M52A2 that had been sitting in the woods for over a decade. He checked the fluids, installed new batteries and it fired right up!

Good luck!

Bruce

Olney, MD
--------------
1989 M932A2
1989 M925A2
1989 M101A2
1988 M977
1988 M105A2
1987 M1045
1987 M105A2
1985 M1009 (3)
1963 M332 (2)

 

[BKubu]

...oh yeah...if you are looking for a cargo cover, bows and fiberglass troop seats for the truck, let me know. I've got an NOS set of troop seats and bows, as well as recent 3-color vinyl cargo cover.

Bruce

Olney, MD
--------------
1989 M932A2
1989 M925A2
1989 M101A2
1988 M977
1988 M105A2
1987 M1045
1987 M105A2
1985 M1009 (3)
1963 M332 (2)

 

[jblueep]

JRBAMATEX, I might take you up on your offer in a few weeks.

Recovry4x4, Yes the wrecker caged the brakes. There was an air leak in the foot valve so he went the safe route and caged them.

BKubu, Thanks for the info. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if it does, I think I'm still OK as far as price like you said. You can put a cargo cover on a dump? What does that look like?

 

[Desert Rat]

Another concern is hydrostatic lock. I owned a couple of $emi$ and experienced thi$ fir$t hand. My suggestion is to try turning by hand first. If she won't budge then suspect hydro-lock. An injector can leak fuel into the cylinder and lock the cylinder hard in a day or so under certain circumstances. I've seen this happen and paid for it. I'd hate to see you put more money into the truck than what you need to. Just my . Plus, you got an OUTSTANDING deal on that dumper!!!!!!

 

[jblueep]

Desert Rat,

How would I check for hydrostatic lock, and how is that fixed? Thanks for the advice.

Jason

 

[Desert Rat]

Jason,

If the engine doesn't turn by hand completely (a 360* turn) then she's locked. The only solution is to remove the injector and give her another turn to flush out the fuel. Sometimes removing the head is needed. However, I believe with the come-a-part (read trucker's term for Cummins) you should be able to squirt everything out the injector port. A cheater bar is helpful in turning the engine.

 

[JRBAMATEX]

I like DR's idea. What if you backed out all of the injectors. Pumped air into the break system. So you could stop. Disconnected the battery (don't want it starting when we aren't ready for it to) Chained up to another truck put it in gear and pulled it down the road a bit? If it had the hydro-lock and the engine turned it would push out any fuel in whichever cylinder it was in and at the same time reveal that the engine will turn. Once that was done hook up the battery and try to pull it started or start trouble shooting solenoids, starters etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Recovry4x4]

Forgive my ignorance here but aren't the injectors on a NHC250 under the valve covers? It would be my humble opinion that in the event it is locked up, dragging it around in gear might do some damage. Brute force might be a final alternative. I would pull the valve covers and have a looksee. If you can infact, pull the injectors I would do that too then establish a way to hand crank it. If it creeps with little force you might be ahead of the game. If its solid the task gets more difficult. Again, take my words with a grain of salt because I know nothing about the NHC250. In the event you can remove the injectors, do so and give each cylinder a healthy dose of Kroil in each one. Kroil or GM Heatvalve lube are among the best penetrants you can get. Mopar even has a similar product. Let this soak for many days then go back to the hand cranking and try to crank it. Once it starts moving just keep working it back and forth one direction to the other. If the cylinders are somewhat rusty you might be able to salvage it this way without killing it. Using brute force to break it free and just cranking it over by dragging it could extensively damage rings, pistons and could even move sleeves around a bit. Patience wil be a virtue with this, to haste is to waste.

 

[gbooth]

I would not try and pull it, try using a brake over bar and maybe a cheater pipe. The reason for not pulling it is that the injectors may look big around but the actual hole into the cylinder is very small. If there is fuel water, or oil in the cylinders it would not be able to be displaced fast enough to keep from damaging parts. Pull the injectors all the way out and roll the engine over by hand using the brake over bar.