Niehoff N3030 Regulator/ M1078/ doesn't have flashing light capacity

[Ronmar]

Now I understand, so I say! You are charging the series of batteries to be 24vdc and doing away with the 12vdc side. You are obtaining your voltage right there at the panel ie 24vdc connect at the panel and going to the 12vdc connect at the panel. Now instead of a manual disconnect switch for the convertor can I use a 24vdc solenoid to fire up the 12vdc side or does the 12vdc side control the ignition side to fire up the 24vdc side? Hitting mental recall, I think that is where you said the K2 relay plays in.
If I am wrong on any of this you will not hurt my feelings by straightening me out. Thank you

It depends on the truck. The A0 uses 12v to turn on the 24v ign Relay and has no 12v ign relay.

the A1 uses 24v to control the ign relays and has 12 and 24v ign relays.

I swapped my A0 ign control over to 24v control to avoid low voltage dropping the ign ckt offline during a start.

the cool thing about the victron is that it has a control input. If you have an A0 if you convert the ign to 24v control, you could turn on the converter with a panel relay powered by the 24v ign relay…

 

[Lugnuts]

It depends on the truck. The A0 uses 12v to turn on the 24v ign Relay and has no 12v ign relay.

the A1 uses 24v to control the ign relays and has 12 and 24v ign relays.

I swapped my A0 ign control over to 24v control to avoid low voltage dropping the ign ckt offline during a start.

the cool thing about the victron is that it has a control input. If you have an A0 if you convert the ign to 24v control, you could turn on the converter with a panel relay powered by the 24v ign relay…

Thank you again! From Door handles to Electrical Guru, the exploiter of the FMTV. I'll let you know how this all turns out.

 

[Lugnuts]

How much room do you have under the passenger dash? I got an extremely good deal on the converter I shoe-horned under my dash. But a Victron orion 70A 24-12 would fit to the kick panel very easy in most cases

Under the dash is the best IMO as it can be connected up easily with a few short jumper wires and it is way way up above any water and out of the weather. i got the jumpers at a local autoparts store after I measured the lengths i needed to reach between converter and power points.

I put a disconnect sw on the 24v feed on mine, but the victron has a remote control sw option so is easilly controlled from a dash switch.

I talk about how I wired mine in this video.

I went back through the video and it explains well. Pursuing clarification. I intend to order the Victron Orion and mount it in the right kick board area like you stated. If I run a 4 gauge wire from the 24vdc Alternator to the Orion under the dash, and then a 4ga wire from the Orion to the 12vdc spot on the panel, that should pretty much supply my needs.
I haven't looked at the ignition side of the Orion yet but I don't foresee a problem using relays and solenoid. If the ignition switch now has 12vdc I can change it to hot 24vdc to fire up a solenoid and then the K2 and Convertor.
If I am wrong on my estimations please correct me.
Since this truck is going to be a High Water Truck and have 12vdc emergency light and communications I figure worse case scenario I can get another convertor and wire all that separately.
I have also discovered that since I am in Florida we rarely get cold enough to need heat and the removal of the heater box and water lines makes for a great electrical and fuse compartment for the emergency side of the truck.
Bt the way, I checked on the duty cycle of that unit and they claim 100 percent duty cycle is 70 amp and it can have a momentary load of 85 amp.

 

[coachgeo]

there is some threads in here where folk modified their CAT alternator bracket to fit the more commonly available commercial sized 24v alternators

 

[Ronmar]

Yea the Victron appears to be an OK unit.

you already have 24v running into the cab to the X1 point in the power panel. I was mainly reusing cables the way I wired mine using the alternator 24v as a junction point. Since I was removing the polarity box to simplify things, I had them available. But a lot of the things I did are not necessary for a simple 24v conversion. You just disconnect the 12v line at the power panel and insulate it. Run 24 and ground from the power panel down to the victron and 12v from the victron back up to the power panel 12v point.
then you just need a contact closure to enable the victron, be it from a ign powered relay in the power panel or even a standalone switch on the dash…

 

[coachgeo]

Yea the Victron appears to be an OK unit.

you already have 24v running into the cab to the X1 point in the power panel. I was mainly reusing cables the way I wired mine using the alternator 24v as a junction point. Since I was removing the polarity box to simplify things, I had them available. But a lot of the things I did are not necessary for a simple 24v conversion. You just disconnect the 12v line at the power panel and insulate it. Run 24 and ground from the power panel down to the victron and 12v from the victron back up to the power panel 12v point.
then you just need a contact closure to enable the victron, be it from a ign powered relay in the power panel or even a standalone switch on the dash…

hhhh..... would that make this potentially an an Anti Theft switch if you hide it in plain sight just right ?

 

[Ronmar]

hhhh..... would that make this potentially an an Anti Theft switch if you hide it in plain sight just right ?

Well not if you convert to a 24v ign… i can start and drive my truck now without ever rning on the 24-12 converter… i just won’t have any lights…

 

[coachgeo]

Well not if you convert to a 24v ign… i can start and drive my truck now without ever rning on the 24-12 converter… i just won’t have any lights…

drat... thought that might offer a kill two birds with one stone chance

 

[Reworked LMTV]

I want to understand the Neihoff issue more in-depth. Are replacement parts available for these units from the manufacturer? Anyone tear into one of their regulators yet to see if there are parts that could be replaced inside or are these potted in epoxy? Brushless style alternator produce much more quiet signals than brush types. Some charge controllers and inverters will go offline if the signal is too dirty.

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I want to understand the Neihoff issue more in-depth. Are replacement parts available for these units from the manufacturer? Anyone tear into one of their regulators yet to see if there are parts that could be replaced inside or are these potted in epoxy? Brushless style alternator produce much more quiet signals than brush types. Some charge controllers and inverters will go offline if the signal is too dirty.

The brushless may be more quiet in some respects - I'm no expert and can only relate what I gleaned from talking to the engineers at Niehoff during my troubleshooting. They are a lot slower to respond in terms of voltage regulation (thus the capacitors in the LBCD in case of a disconnect event), and they do have a lot more "acceptable" AC ripple (up to 1.00v of AC ripple is considered normal operation). Not sure about interference in terms of EMI and RFI - it could be part of why the military uses them because they don't have loud signatures that might interfere with critical comms or other instruments. IDK the answers to that.

Parts are available to order from any of their wholesale distributors that are willing to do so. You will have to go through an EUC background check to purchase anything from Niehoff that carries a military NSN. Romaine electric is who I have talked to about ordering parts and services through. The prices will make your eyes water though. The HIMARS alternator I'm running in my truck - $7,500 plus shipping and it's 98 lbs.

As far as opening up the Niehoff potted parts..... yeah it's possible. See my troubleshooting thread for pictures I took when I un-potted an LBCD. It's going to be like that only smaller. It's quite a mess as it's potted in silica sand mixed with a clear potting compound.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

The brushless may be more quiet in some respects - I'm no expert and can only relate what I gleaned from talking to the engineers at Niehoff during my troubleshooting. They are a lot slower to respond in terms of voltage regulation (thus the capacitors in the LBCD in case of a disconnect event), and they do have a lot more "acceptable" AC ripple (up to 1.00v of AC ripple is considered normal operation). Not sure about interference in terms of EMI and RFI - it could be part of why the military uses them because they don't have loud signatures that might interfere with critical comms or other instruments. IDK the answers to that.

Parts are available to order from any of their wholesale distributors that are willing to do so. You will have to go through an EUC background check to purchase anything from Niehoff that carries a military NSN. Romaine electric is who I have talked to about ordering parts and services through. The prices will make your eyes water though. The HIMARS alternator I'm running in my truck - $7,500 plus shipping and it's 98 lbs.

As far as opening up the Niehoff potted parts..... yeah it's possible. See my troubleshooting thread for pictures I took when I un-potted an LBCD. It's going to be like that only smaller. It's quite a mess as it's potted in silica sand mixed with a clear potting compound.

Yikes. Overpriced parts. Is the failure typically the coils or the regulator ? If it is the regulator, this stuff is just not very complicated, it could be replaced externally with a caps, regulating circuit. Are the internals large part discrete or surface mount ?

 

[Ronmar]

Yea not a friendly assembly to crack, and I doubt you could get individual parts from Neihoff, just the entire reg assembly if you can find a source To sell to you. And of course uncle sugar pricing applies…

the biggest advantage of brushless alts is that they are brushless no brushes or commutators to wear or make electrical noise(that whine you can hear on AM radio sometimes), and they are a little more tolerant of sandy/dusty environments And theoretically have a longer lifespan…

beyond that they are just an alt. As mentioned they are a little slower to regulate, as you are building two fields, a fixed field that excites part of the rotor, which is rectified to create a rotating field that then excites the stator to creat the output. The necessities of this make them larger, heavier and more complex than conventional alts.

doesn’t make much sense to me for domestic use when I can get adequate power from an alt 1/10th the cost and parts are just a few mouse clicks away if not already in stock at a local automotive electric shop…

 

[GeneralDisorder]

I agree with Ron except I like the uniqueness of the Niehoff (Isn't that part of why we own these trucks?), and I've only really seen issues with older design abused 100A alternators that were put into trucks with a battery bank they had no business trying to charge and if you know anything about the military you will understand that 95% of these trucks have dead batteries EVERY TIME someone tries to start them. They slave cable them and get the engine running then immediately disconnect and move on to the next truck - hitting the undersized alternator with 4 dead 6TL's (or worse 6TAGM's). It's not surprising to me that these fail. I attribute the (relatively rare) alternator failures to abuse, while the voltage regulators seem to just either get old and cease to function or they are the older models without the LED's. The newer VR's seem to hold up well - indeed I have about four of them dating from 2010 all the way to 2021 for the 260A alternator and they all work fine.

As for the cost - yeah if you need it NOW the price is stupid and only a fool with the intelligence of a potato, the ridiculously wealthy, or governments can swallow that pill.

Personally I play the long game on the surplus side (how we all got our trucks at 20% of their original price in the first place - should be obvious to do this). So while I might pay a *little* more in some cases, it's usually palatable and when I find a source I snag more than one so I have spares. I also am VERY careful and on-top of all my electrical connections, battery charge level, etc so as not to anger the Niehoff gods. Knock on wood but I haven't had any issues with my system since I discovered and rectified the manufacturing defect in my LBCD wiring.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

That is helpful. My system has a heavy duty battery minder when not in use.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

there is some threads in here where folk modified their CAT alternator bracket to fit the more commonly available commercial sized 24v alternators

On the site or FMTV portion? I'm interested.

 

[hike]

Here's where we started our swap to a 24v 200a alternator on a modified mount, pulled the LBCD and added a Victron 24/12v 70a converter at the passenger foot kick.

m1078a1 cab and chassis electrical upgrades @MatthewWBailey swapped using a pad mount alternator.

We still have a working 24/12v 100a Niehoff boxed on a shop shelf—

 

[GeneralDisorder]

If I were to go the 24v commercial route - I like the pad mount option as well. If you don't have the time to scour every corner of the surplus world and wait for the right deal to happen along I think I would definitely investigate that option.

It's also worth noting that if you have a non-A1R truck (serial numbers under 101,906) then the hurdles that exist to mounting the larger Niehoff units makes it that much more attractive to switch to a commercial unit. The 100A original or the 200A HMMWV alternators are about the only choice for fitment without moving or modifying the upper shock mount. And the HIMARS alternator in particular is HUGE and requires moving some stuff even on the 3126b...... fitment to the 3116 looks like a real uphill battle as the 300 is about 2" longer than the 260 (same diameter) which is already a longer and larger diameter than the 100A. There's also the mounting situation. I have some 260/300 mounts in production for the C7's (better than the factory 260 mount which has been known to crack) but I haven't worked out the details for fitment to the older engines just yet.

 

[MatthewWBailey]

Here's where we started our swap to a 24v 200a alternator on a modified mount, pulled the LBCD and added a Victron 24/12v 70a converter at the passenger foot kick.

m1078a1 cab and chassis electrical upgrades @MatthewWBailey swapped using a pad mount alternator.

We still have a working 24/12v 100a Niehoff boxed on a shop shelf—

I have the $170 130 Amp Delco. I was just looking to get it running after the dead Neihoff. Mounting was childlike simplicity. And I'm only on 2 batteries now. If it burns up, Napa can replace it lol.

 

[Reworked LMTV]

I have the $170 130 Amp Delco. I was just looking to get it running after the dead Neihoff. Mounting was childlike simplicity. And I'm only on 2 batteries now. If it burns up, Napa can replace it lol.

What is the model # on this Delco?

 

[MatthewWBailey]

What is the model # on this Delco?

Delco 28SI 24V 110 Amp 8600469 8600423 Quad Mount 8762

I got it from eBay. It's technically only 110a but test sheet goes to 130. Mine is the generic knockoff I believe. There's a price bump if you get the non knockoff version. Probably around $300. The OEM style unit has "Delco" name stamped into the black plastic cover on the back. I've seen this labeled with the Cummins label for as much $550. I've circled the cat # on the spec sheet in the 2nd photo.

this bolts into the 4-1/4"set of holes horizontally whereas the neihoff bracket uses the outer holes. Pulley lines up exactly.

this unit has remote voltage sense so I put that in too, fused line back to the batt +. I'm also driving a tach from the ac terminal.

with @Ronmar help, I was able to use the i terminal to drive the "charging system" warning light on the dash. Just needed a diode in line.

I'm at 28.00 volts while driving normally on my DMM meter. No change really unless the AIH is on. In March I tested the amperage and it was pulling 115 after a startup. That AIH is a hog.