Non-catalyzed Paint Durability

[Flyboy207]

Hello again all, I'm midway through painting my M35 the Gillespie 24087 that I got from Rapco. They said to reduce it using xylene (I'm using mineral spirits because California is, well... you know.) That said, Rapco said not to put any hardener in the paint because it will darken the color. I really didn't want that because the Vietnam Era OD is brown enough already. I'm considering finding a semi-gloss clearcoat that I can put hardener in and spray over, because the paint I have sprayed scrapes off fairly easily, and leaves light green lines where it gets scratched. On a side note, I also noticed mineral spirits don't evaporate like a normal automotive reducer does. Should I risk the color change from a hardener or just spray a catalyzed clear over it? Help me out here guys. Thanks for your input, anything helps!

 

[Bill W]

I've used hardner with Gillispie/ RAPCO paint all the time, It does not make it darker, it make it glossyer (sp). In the past I've used Martin senour 8870 catly/hardener and on my last paint job ( used 7 gals ) I used a universal hardener made by Valspar ( bought it at Tractor supply ). If you end up using a hardner I've found that mineral spirits won't work so good ( Xylene or Naptha is better for reducing paint w/hardner ) especially when cleaning up ( you probably know this part already but I'm on a roll )
P.S. In my book, Mineral spirits is slow dryer, Naptha a med dryer and Xylene a fast dryer

 

[Jeepsinker]

That's why you are having durability problems. The mineral spirits don't flash off the way xylene does, and it is probably damaging the chemical makeup of the paint to be honest. I'm no chemist but that is my thought on it.
do not spray clear over it until the base is fully cured, which may not happen if the paint is chemically damaged. Also, clear will always discolor and peel long before the basecoat will, and he basecoat should be color sanded before the clear is sprayed. From what you report, that wouldn't work because abrasion discolors your paint.

 

[Flyboy207]

So Bill, since I can't get xylene or naptha, should I use Martin Senour hardener and their reducer and spray over what I have? Do you think I need to sand off all the paint I have already sprayed? Thanks again, Peter

 

[RDUKW]

So Bill, since I can't get xylene or naptha, should I use Martin Senour hardener and their reducer and spray over what I have? Do you think I need to sand off all the paint I have already sprayed? Thanks again, Peter

Ace Hardware sells a industrial thinner in California that is comparable to Xylene

 

[Jeepsinker]

Give the paint a week and see if it cures hard, then go from there. If it doesn't cure you'll want to remove it all and start over.

 

[SCSG-G4]

Depends on how warm and sunny it is for the full curing time. The Behr paint in Oregon can take as long as six weeks to cure by some reports, while in South Carolina in the summer with no rain, it's as hard as rocks in two sunny days (my experience). YMMV, but give it some time.

 

[Bill W]

The Martin senour hardner is wicked and about $60pt ( 18yrs ago ) I used naptha with it and also xylene on another job.
I was also very happy with the results using Valspar "Tractor & Implement" hardner ( $25pt ) on my current deuce.
Gillespie is just plain Alklyd enamel ( I called GP coatings to confirm ) and a atomotive reducer is kinda overkill $$ but plenty of people here have used it with same results.
A light sanding on your current paint job should be all you need to do before repainting with Hardned paint ( Hardner has great adhesion qualities ) but as already stated you will first need to let current (non hardned ) paint cure, I would let it setup for at least a few of weeks if not more, (read the can and see what Gillespie recommends ).
Heres a link to my deuce redo that I did a few years back if you want to see some of the (Valspar ) glossy finish, I used gillespie WW II semi gloss to paint it.http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?53338-So-it-begins-but-never-ends
I did my M-37 with 24087 and MS hardner ( see pic ) to see that gloss also. I am not a painting expert but this what has work for me with the Mil vehicles and my company trucks I have painted.

 

[hndrsonj]

Bill, what is the can on top of the primer?

 

[Bill W]

Bill, what is the can on top of the primer?

Its called Penetrol
a ( oilbase ) paint conditioner, this stuff is a great rust inhibiter and it flows like water and drys nice and hard, I use it and a small artist size brush to get into tight areas where its tough for (spray ) paint/primer to get in ( i.e. stake pockets, seams,etc ) and then wipe down any excess with a clean rag ( I even mix some in with the primer ).
A commercial diver turned me onto this stuff as he used it to protect his work tools from saltwater rusting them out ( he'd soak them in it ). When the makers of this stuff ( Flood ) found out how it well it works on rust they came out with "Rustrol" which is same product just different label.
The box stores carry this stuff, you can usually find it over where they sell the airless paint sprayers, if you do go and get a can make sure it the one for oil base as they also have one for latex paint too.

 

[Woodsplinter]

I sprayed my deuce with Gillespie 24052 (Marine Corp forest green semi-gloss) and thinned it with Xylene. It went on fine and dried hard but 3 months later it faded to dead flat. It also water spots terribly using hard or soft water.

The paint was applied in Phoenix in February and the temps were in the low 70's. I contacted Rapco and was told they had never heard of this happening and had no idea what could have caused the fading.

I switched to Behr latex house paint and have had no problems with it. I will never use Rapco semi-gloss again. I don't know how the flat version performs.

 

[quickfarms]

I sprayed my deuce with Gillespie 24052 (Marine Corp forest green semi-gloss) and thinned it with Xylene. It went on fine and dried hard but 3 months later it faded to dead flat. It also water spots terribly using hard or soft water.

The paint was applied in Phoenix in February and the temps were in the low 70's. I contacted Rapco and was told they had never heard of this happening and had no idea what could have caused the fading.

I switched to Behr latex house paint and have had no problems with it. I will never use Rapco semi-gloss again. I don't know how the flat version performs.

Mine has done the same fading thing, but it washed off.

 

[hndrsonj]

So does the TM9 Ordnance enamel fade also?

 

[Lonnie]

Used Rapco on mine without hardener & it still looks good after a year.

It does water spot, but after an hour in the sun it disappears.
Sort of weird as it looks terrible if you first wipe the water off of it.
Once the paint cures a few months it seems to stop doing this.

I would be cautious putting paint with hardener over fresh enamel without hardener, it can cause it to lift/wrinkle.

Problem with clear is if you scratch it, the paint will show a white scratch instead of the lighter shade you describe.
Also remember flat clears will still shine if you polish it (or even rub it hard with a rag). The surface is the only dull part.

 

[Bill W]

Its not the hardner that will lift the fresh/uncured paint its the solvents/reducers in the new paint going on top of it that will cause it to lift.

 

[GUNNY 155]

Seems everyone has their own secret formulas so here is what I did on my frame off M37 restoration. Starting with bare metal I filled imperfections with Trans Star Gold body filler. I then primed all areas with Trans Star Euro Primer. This is a two part urethane high build primer sealer. A little pricy but no more than if you purchased separate primer and sealer. After application I block sanded and applied the color coat which was Gillespie 24052 USMC Forrest Green. I thinned this with Martin Seynor medium fast reducer. This allows the paint to flash quick enough to keep dust and bugs out but allows enough time for it to level out. Application was done with a HVLP gun with most of the application being done in my drive way and quickly moved back inside out of the sun. I usually painted in early morning so the metal would not have a chance to heat up. I have had no problems with fading and the paint seems very resistive to scratching and chipping.

 

[85CUCVtom]

Does anybody have experience with GCI (Rapco) 383 Green CARC substitute with a hardener?

I've used it in rattle cans and I imagine it would spray similar cut 4-1 with Xylene like Rapco says. I have a friend who is a body guy and is going to paint my truck for me and he keeps saying it needs a hardener but if the hardener adds gloss, I'm not ok with that. I told him to just cut it and spray it on.

Can somebody please weigh in with their personal experience? How does the long term durability look with and without hardener, cut with Xylene?

 

[Bill W]

I shot my Lightweight with single part tan carc ( 686B ) along with hardener and it stayed flat.
I'm told it can't get glossier if there no gloss to begin with.

 

[85CUCVtom]

I'm told it can't get glossier if there no gloss to begin with.

Makes sense to me.

What brand paint was the tan?

 

[iasc399ia]

I shot my Lightweight with single part tan carc ( 686B ) along with hardener and it stayed flat.
I'm told it can't get glossier if there no gloss to begin with.

Beautiful.

I am planning on respraying my m1009 here shortly so thanks to those with relevant and personal knowledge on the paints and hardners