Odyssey PC2250ST 6tl the bad? best seller?

[Mogman]

Indeed, back in the day when Optimas were made in Sweden or wherever it was, I bought some that were the best-by far of any lead-acid batteries I've owned, before or since. Once they moved production/got bought out they went downhill fast and the last one I had I warrantied, twice, before the year was out and didn't last too long after the warranty period. The Odyssey have been good performers for me, but are pretty fragile in terms of resistance to any overcharging. Get a little too much voltage on them and they do outgas and loose capacity pretty quickly.
If one wants to run radio gear and get a true deep-cycle setup with excellent density, it's time to dump the lead-acid batteries and go lithium.
LiFePO4 is more money than the typical lithium batteries but is a lot safer and has more compatible charge/discharge voltage for automotive applications, though if you are going 24V, you could build a 7S lithium ion setup but they aren't really safe to center-tap, so dc-dc is the only way to get 12VDC. Anyway, lithium batteries are a quantum-leap forward over lead-acid in terms of it's ability to be actually deep-cycled, the number of cycles it will last, and energy density (not to mention weight). Recently a number of manufacturers have started selling integrated battery systems with decent BMS so they will limit charging and discharging as well as cell-balance to protect and prolong the life of the battery. Also interesting is the fact at least one manufacturer has a Bluetooth-enabled battery so you can monitor battery state from your device and also turn it on or off, handy alternative to a key switch!

Just as one example I notice the "Battle-Born" 100AH battery for sale, $1000/each. On paper it's lass capacity than the Odyssey the OP mentions,but since Lead-acid are rated on the ideal discharge curve you don't get anything like that 126AH in practice without damaging the batteries, more like 50-60% while you can easily go to 90% at any reasonable rate on the lithium. Oh, they are also smaller and 1/3 the weight!

Thanks for the info, deep cycling my batteries is not one of my practices, peak amps and long life are my goal.

 

[teletech]

Thanks for the info, deep cycling my batteries is not one of my practices, peak amps and long life are my goal.

Peak amps and long life are two places lithium batteries dominate, I can crank a V8 small-block with a LiFePO4 that weighs 5Lbs and they go thousands of full cycles. Next time...

 

[Coug]

If you have the money, the lithium batteries really are the cat's meow, but unless you really need that type of power in that size/weight package, along with the deep discharge capability, then costwise you're better off with lead acid. The other advantage of lead acid is availability. If you DO manage to screw something up, you can go to any store that has automotive batteries and pick up something to throw into the truck and get you home.
Lead acid also doesn't have the same level of catastrophic failure that a lithium is capable of (not that it is likely, but it's still possible)

 

[teletech]

If you have the money, the lithium batteries really are the cat's meow, but unless you really need that type of power in that size/weight package, along with the deep discharge capability, then costwise you're better off with lead acid. The other advantage of lead acid is availability. If you DO manage to screw something up, you can go to any store that has automotive batteries and pick up something to throw into the truck and get you home.
Lead acid also doesn't have the same level of catastrophic failure that a lithium is capable of (not that it is likely, but it's still possible)

I think these days the upfront cost actually works out in the long run in longer service live, but I agree the upfront cost can be breathtaking!
LiFePO4 aren't nearly as scary as Lithium-cobalt and others, but it is very true that with great power comes great responsibility and with great energy density comes great potential for catastrophe. The early gen without good integrated BMS were a somewhat prone to spectacular fireballs! I had a cheap balance charger fail in such a way as to dump power into one cell that was already full and it immolated the battery pretty thoroughly but luckily did no other damage apart from magic smoke smell and some scorched paint.
I know the folks at Zero motorcycles have a shopping cart full of sand for testing suspect packs, if it goes off you push the cart into the parking lot and hope the hole in the asphalt isn't big. Of course they are pushing some of the very highest energy density in the world...

 

[Coug]

I think these days the upfront cost actually works out in the long run in longer service live, but I agree the upfront cost can be breathtaking!
LiFePO4 aren't nearly as scary as Lithium-cobalt and others, but it is very true that with great power comes great responsibility and with great energy density comes great potential for catastrophe. The early gen without good integrated BMS were a somewhat prone to spectacular fireballs! I had a cheap balance charger fail in such a way as to dump power into one cell that was already full and it immolated the battery pretty thoroughly but luckily did no other damage apart from magic smoke smell and some scorched paint.
I know the folks at Zero motorcycles have a shopping cart full of sand for testing suspect packs, if it goes off you push the cart into the parking lot and hope the hole in the asphalt isn't big. Of course they are pushing some of the very highest energy density in the world...

True, if you can afford it, and need it, then it's worth the money.
I have several customers that are off grid. One of them installed a lithium battery pack, with all the battery balancing modules and everything else. He's into that pack about 10 times what most of my other customers have invested into their FLA batteries, but his takes up a LOT less space, and will likely last 5 times longer with almost zero maintenance, where the FLA has to be topped up monthly or you're buying an all new set of batteries.

 

[Milcommoguy]

Not sure or following the need to have all the wizz bang / $1000 dollar batteries in a hobby HumV.

Very intermittent, one time loads of glow plugs, starter. Once up and running, (property tuned) HumV system requirements are pretty minimal. Lights, couple of solenoids and a motor for heater, wipers (basic). Add in air con (more motors a clutch) still small.

Electric winch could be a whopper when under a pulling load, but one usually has engine running so still not seeing the need for over the top $$$ batteries. (use a snatch block, cutting drain in half, easier on all components, cheaper that a stripped out gear set, takes twice as long, go figure )

In my rig 60 amp alternator, with six radios, never an issue. Can't be transmitting on them all at the same time, so very very light duty time on the batteries.

Saw a Humv with a 800 watt thumping - banging stereo... now that might need a little battery engineering. Who as that anyway LOL.

Not planning of flipping rig in a ditch. Most batteries are sealed tops, so playing it safe there.

Still thinking here Charging the hi-tech batteries may not be happy with regulator designs for old-tech batteries, Current, voltage, temperature limits or settings designed into 30 year old HumV regulators could be ???able. Having a 200 Amp system sounds good (big better??) could easily cook off MR. hi-tech.

Something else to think about If HumV is new to you.... 24 volt systems loads (typically) are going to be half of those coming from the 12 volt auto world experience. Diesel engine cranking requirements (due to highers cylinder compression) are easier to manage the amperage at 24 volts. (don't get confused by the oversized cables. That's just GI overkill design and good to have)

Wally World my battery source and wear a mask.

Call me cheap, thinks too much simple and old schools. Five years and still going strong, CAMO

 

[Coug]

Not sure or following the need to have all the wizz bang / $1000 dollar batteries in a hobby HumV.

Very intermittent, one time loads of glow plugs, starter. Once up and running, (property tuned) HumV system requirements are pretty minimal. Lights, couple of solenoids and a motor for heater, wipers (basic). Add in air con (more motors a clutch) still small.

Electric winch could be a whopper when under a pulling load, but one usually has engine running so still not seeing the need for over the top $$$ batteries. (use a snatch block, cutting drain in half, easier on all components, cheaper that a stripped out gear set, takes twice as long, go figure )

In my rig 60 amp alternator, with six radios, never an issue. Can't be transmitting on them all at the same time, so very very light duty time on the batteries.

Saw a Humv with a 800 watt thumping - banging stereo... now that might need a little battery engineering. Who as that anyway LOL.

Not planning of flipping rig in a ditch. Most batteries are sealed tops, so playing it safe there.

Still thinking here Charging the hi-tech batteries may not be happy with regulator designs for old-tech batteries, Current, voltage, temperature limits or settings designed into 30 year old HumV regulators could be ???able. Having a 200 Amp system sounds good (big better??) could easily cook off MR. hi-tech.

Something else to think about If HumV is new to you.... 24 volt systems loads (typically) are going to be half of those coming from the 12 volt auto world experience. Diesel engine cranking requirements (due to highers cylinder compression) are easier to manage the amperage at 24 volts. (don't get confused by the oversized cables. That's just GI overkill design and good to have)

Wally World my battery source and wear a mask.

Call me cheap, thinks too much simple and old schools. Five years and still going, CAMO

Yup, unless you have some specialized reason why you need a huge amount of battery capacity with very high drain capabilities while being extremely lightweight, good old lead acid works just fine.
My view on it is along the lines of "if the lithium batteries were truly the most cost effective way to do this, then that's what would be in it from the factory" and I don't know of any mass production car/truck that uses lithium. Some use AGM these days, but most still stick with flooded lead acid because it's cost effective and works well enough.
(though I will say the wally world "economy" batteries have the shortest life/highest failure rate of pretty much any battery I've ever worked with)

Even your 60 amp generator is almost 1500 watts of output, it's the same as a 120 amp 12V alternator, which is more than many modern cars use. The 200 amp is ridiculous for most applications as well, equivalent to a 5kw generator.

 

[teletech]

Yup, unless you have some specialized reason why you need a huge amount of battery capacity with very high drain capabilities while being extremely lightweight, good old lead acid works just fine.
My view on it is along the lines of "if the lithium batteries were truly the most cost effective way to do this, then that's what would be in it from the factory" and I don't know of any mass production car/truck that uses lithium. Some use AGM these days, but most still stick with flooded lead acid because it's cost effective and works well enough.
(though I will say the wally world "economy" batteries have the shortest life/highest failure rate of pretty much any battery I've ever worked with)

Even your 60 amp generator is almost 1500 watts of output, it's the same as a 120 amp 12V alternator, which is more than many modern cars use. The 200 amp is ridiculous for most applications as well, equivalent to a 5kw generator.

Not sure or following the need to have all the wizz bang / $1000 dollar batteries in a hobby HumV.

Very intermittent, one time loads of glow plugs, starter. Once up and running, (property tuned) HumV system requirements are pretty minimal. Lights, couple of solenoids and a motor for heater, wipers (basic). Add in air con (more motors a clutch) still small.

Electric winch could be a whopper when under a pulling load, but one usually has engine running so still not seeing the need for over the top $$$ batteries. (use a snatch block, cutting drain in half, easier on all components, cheaper that a stripped out gear set, takes twice as long, go figure )

In my rig 60 amp alternator, with six radios, never an issue. Can't be transmitting on them all at the same time, so very very light duty time on the batteries.

Saw a Humv with a 800 watt thumping - banging stereo... now that might need a little battery engineering. Who as that anyway LOL.

Not planning of flipping rig in a ditch. Most batteries are sealed tops, so playing it safe there.

Still thinking here Charging the hi-tech batteries may not be happy with regulator designs for old-tech batteries, Current, voltage, temperature limits or settings designed into 30 year old HumV regulators could be ???able. Having a 200 Amp system sounds good (big better??) could easily cook off MR. hi-tech.

Something else to think about If HumV is new to you.... 24 volt systems loads (typically) are going to be half of those coming from the 12 volt auto world experience. Diesel engine cranking requirements (due to highers cylinder compression) are easier to manage the amperage at 24 volts. (don't get confused by the oversized cables. That's just GI overkill design and good to have)

Wally World my battery source and wear a mask.

Call me cheap, thinks too much simple and old schools. Five years and still going strong, CAMO

The OP specified he wanted a large capacity of reserve power, also that he had a bunch of radio gear. From the context I assumed that person wanted to run said radios with the vehicle off or there would be no reason to spec high capacity. otherwise he could have used any old $60 battery rather than spend $500/ea on the Odyssey. I was offering up that lithium offers even higher capacity if that's what he was optimizing for.
As to compatibility with old charging systems, that's where the combination of the LiFePO4 chemistry and a BMS (battery management system) comes in. It will control which cells get charged and how much, so you don't have to worry about your old charging system.
As to why vehicles don't come with lithium batteries from the factory, some now do, particularly high end vehicles where the purchasers aren't cost-sensitive. Some military vehicles are following suit. The main bar is people's shortsightedness. If I can buy two cars that seem identical in every respect, but one is $200 cheaper, which one will I buy? So, makers try to save a buck where they can. For a while Jeeps were shipping on some legendarily bad tires because they looked aggressive but were cheap. Turns out they weighed about half what a real offroad tire did...
Similarly, if I'm in a competitive-bid situation and going with FLA might get me the contract, why not?
Don't think I'm totally against lead-acid though. My normal batteries are tiny Odyssey 980s because they are only about $120/ea. You'd look at them and think they are a motorcycle battery, but two will easily start a 7.8 diesel or anything else I have and almost any of my 12V cars will start on one. I don't have any reserve capacity in terms of running loads for hours with the vehicle off, but that's fine for my use-case.

 

[Hummerhmm]

I emailed battle born and they replied that they dont have the cold cranking amps for auto use.

 

[teletech]

I emailed battle born and they replied that they dont have the cold cranking amps for auto use.

Sounds like a potential disconnect in information. It's advertised as a deep cycle AND starting battery but specifically rated for marine use so it might just be they didn't bother to pay for testing in freezing environments. It is very likely that this battery will perform in the cold about like most other batteries with similar (warm)cranking amps. I'd also be interested in knowing what vehicle or load they don't have the cranking amps for since, after all, all vehicles have different needs. A battery not having the CCA for a 7.3L diesel in freezing conditions could be ample to start a 1.2L gas motor after all. Also keep in mind if it's for a 24V application the current will be half (or a little less actually) of that for a 12V system. A real answer should be more like "it depends".

 

[teletech]

(though I will say the wally world "economy" batteries have the shortest life/highest failure rate of pretty much any battery I've ever worked with)

Yes! I had the misfortune of having electrical system trouble where the only place in plausible walking distance was a MallWart and so bought a cheep battery from them. It lasted about two weeks before near total failure. Sadly since I didn't live near a store I didn't get back in time for a cash refund, by three days. The made me wait around for them to test the battery (yep, bad) and then said "OK, get another" well turns out they were out of stock, still no refund but "come back when we do have one". I did but they wanted to re-test the battery (still bad) and then when I git the new one to the register they wanted to charge me since they had pro-rated the battery since it took some time to bring it in! Never again is all I'm saying.

 

[Hummerhmm]

Sounds like a potential disconnect in information. It's advertised as a deep cycle AND starting battery but specifically rated for marine use so it might just be they didn't bother to pay for testing in freezing environments. It is very likely that this battery will perform in the cold about like most other batteries with similar (warm)cranking amps. I'd also be interested in knowing what vehicle or load they don't have the cranking amps for since, after all, all vehicles have different needs. A battery not having the CCA for a 7.3L diesel in freezing conditions could be ample to start a 1.2L gas motor after all. Also keep in mind if it's for a 24V application the current will be half (or a little less actually) of that for a 12V system. A real answer should be more like "it depends".

Yeah I explained the set up at length and that is what they told me. I was ready to throw down 1600 for a pair. I guess I am stuck with Odyssey or sears gold agm. I want a good battery. The amount of time and pain that a dead battery can cause is not worth buying cheap.

 

[teletech]

Yeah I explained the set up at length and that is what they told me. I was ready to throw down 1600 for a pair. I guess I am stuck with Odyssey or sears gold agm. I want a good battery. The amount of time and pain that a dead battery can cause is not worth buying cheap.

I wonder if they actually knew their stuff. You'd have thought they would have at least checked their catalog and made a recommendation. (If this is a "service economy" why is the service so bad?) I'd check with another distributor. Come to think of it, I'd suggest contacting the manufacturer directly, perhaps they have a technical support desk.
I believe NAPA is offering a "premium" AGM battery and while it wouldn't be my first choice, it must be said that they do offer pretty comprehensive nationwide support in real brick-and-mortar locations, making it easy to get replacement support.

 

[Maxjeep1]

I’m going with the original batteries. Batteries I have now are working great but they are small and the hold down doesn’t fit and needs a 2x4 underneath it so it will hold the batteries down and then the tray is not made for them. I want to do it once and be done with it. I will order Monday or Tuesday. I had to fill out paperwork and a end user agreement. They are expensive but probably worth it.

 

[TNDRIVER]

I’m going with the original batteries. Batteries I have now are working great but they are small and the hold down doesn’t fit and needs a 2x4 underneath it so it will hold the batteries down and then the tray is not made for them. I want to do it once and be done with it. I will order Monday or Tuesday. I had to fill out paperwork and a end user agreement. They are expensive but probably worth it. 445.00 each shipped View attachment 843699

If I might ask"where are they shipping from"? Inquiring minds want to know!

 

[glcaines]

I just purchased two new Odyssey PC2250ST / 6TAGM batteries for my FLU 419 in July. Odyssey batteries are made by the same company that makes the Hawker Armasafe 6TAGM batteries and have the exact same specifications. The batteries are red instead of green, but who cares.

 

[Maxjeep1]

If I might ask"where are they shipping from"? Inquiring minds want to know!

From the manufacturer. He said they build them as they are ordered and they scheduled them in with the contract batteries. I had to set up account and a send a PO. Really easy and if you are interested pm and I can explain it better. I seen 4 of those batteries on eBay for 2,900

 

[Maxjeep1]

I just purchased two new Odyssey PC2250ST / 6TAGM batteries for my FLU 419 in July. Odyssey batteries are made by the same company that makes the Hawker Armasafe 6TAGM batteries and have the exact same specifications. The batteries are red instead of green, but who cares.
View attachment 843768

That is correct! I think the specs might be a little different but not enough to make a difference. I might be confused about it. I looked at so much stuff and I can’t remember what I had for breakfast.

 

[frank8003]

One may add batteries to most any system
I had very little money, and old cars to get to work.
Could not afford a new battery, always ran used ones.
I ran two batteries in parallel in quite a few of my cars.
I was told by experts that I can't do that but I kept care of my batteries.
Did not want to get a no start in my car after a 12 hour shift with nobody around.
I attached them in parallel and made the welding cable so I could swap the batteries
to series if needed to start those "old 390's' " Pontiacs and Cadillacs.
Never had to, but the option existed thru design, the old cars had much room up front.
I also kept a "good battery" in the trunk ( I put that on a charger once a month")
along with my best jumper cables. Always got home. My cars were like $100, nobody wanted.
When I got a truck I traced and cleaned and refurbished every wire from source to termination.
This effort of life I find just put it back the way it was designed, clean and tight.
In the Deuce I swapped the batteries Lead Lag, made it easy for me.
Never had a problem after my efforts

 

[glcaines]

In the past, I've checked on some "new" Hawker Armasafe 6TAGM batteries for sale on Ebay and maybe on here as well - I can't remember, but the price was excellent. However, when I asked for the date of manufacture, they were always 3 - 5 years old, or they wouldn't tell me. EnerSys, the manufacturer of Hawker Armasafe batteries says that batteries stored unused for more than 2-1/2 years are unwarranted and have a shortened life span.