Odyssey PC2250ST 6tl the bad? best seller?

[Maxjeep1]

In the past, I've checked on some "new" Hawker Armasafe 6TAGM batteries for sale on Ebay and maybe on here as well - I can't remember, but the price was excellent. However, when I asked for the date of manufacture, they were always 3 - 5 years old, or they wouldn't tell me. EnerSys, the manufacturer of Hawker Armasafe batteries says that batteries stored unused for more than 2-1/2 years are unwarranted and have a shortened life span.

The guy I have been working with said my batteries are not made yet. I asked him if I’m getting batteries that have been sitting on a shelf and that was his response

 

[glcaines]

The guy I have been working with said my batteries are not made yet. I asked him if I’m getting batteries that have been sitting on a shelf and that was his response

I have no doubt that the batteries you are getting are new and at a very good price. I was referring to people selling NOS Hawker Armasafe batteries which tend to be a little "long in the tooth" in some cases.

 

[Maxjeep1]

I have no doubt that the batteries you are getting are new and at a very good price. I was referring to people selling NOS Hawker Armasafe batteries which tend to be a little "long in the tooth" in some cases.

I agree and tires too. They want so much for those batteries and I don’t know why when you get new ones cheaper

 

[Maxjeep1]

Just ordered my batteries and they gave me a shipping date of November 22nd. That’s a long time to wait but they will be new new and I don’t pay until shipped. I think I got a really good deal 960.00 with taxes and shipping and they will fit without any modifications.

 

[CallMeColt]

I know this is an old thread, but it popped up when looking at prices for the Odyssey 6TL group batteries. I plan to put them in my M1078 when the lead acid ones I got die. I will go with 2 vs the 4 in there now & install a battery balancer, along with one of the little solar maintainers. This should get my a VERY long lifespan.

I put one in my diesel Jeep and it is great. Optima used to be my go-to, but I to am worried with the change out. I had them last almost 9 years in my Super Duty. Just replaced those with Odyssey as well. The peace of mind knowing they will last a good while is worth the cost.

 

[Maxjeep1]

I know this is an old thread, but it popped up when looking at prices for the Odyssey 6TL group batteries. I plan to put them in my M1078 when the lead acid ones I got die. I will go with 2 vs the 4 in there now & install a battery balancer, along with one of the little solar maintainers. This should get my a VERY long lifespan.

I put one in my diesel Jeep and it is great. Optima used to be my go-to, but I to am worried with the change out. I had them last almost 9 years in my Super Duty. Just replaced those with Odyssey as well. The peace of mind knowing they will last a good while is worth the cost.

I got the Hawker batteries from the manufacturer for 972 shipped and I don’t think that’s much more than the Odyssey’s. They don’t make them until you order them.

 

[CallMeColt]

I got the Hawker batteries from the manufacturer for 972 shipped and I don’t think that’s much more than the Odyssey’s. They don’t make them until you order them.

The Odyssey are around $600 each with veteran discount. Quite a bit more.

 

[Maxjeep1]

The Odyssey are around $600 each with veteran discount. Quite a bit more.

That’s weird that the Odyssey’s are more expensive than the Hawkers. I think when you order from them you get a big discount. You can buy Odysseys from them also.

 

[CallMeColt]

That’s weird that the Odyssey’s are more expensive than the Hawkers. I think when you order from them you get a big discount. You can buy Odysseys from them also.

Oh $972 was for a pair, shipped? That is way better! I thought it was for one.

 

[M1078MAN]

I ordered at I think it was napa, with a discount, I got out the door in a week for 599 each for 4, that was a few years ago, I just looked, they still list them for 599.

Odyssey Extreme Series Battery BCI No. 6T 1225 CCA

 

[TNDRIVER]

That’s weird that the Odyssey’s are more expensive than the Hawkers. I think when you order from them you get a big discount. You can buy Odysseys from them also.

sh

I ordered at I think it was napa, with a discount, I got out the door in a week for 599 each for 4, that was a few years ago, I just looked, they still list them for 599.

Odyssey Extreme Series Battery BCI No. 6T 1225 CCA

Short story.... ordered the Odyssey 6TL from bp... they would not give me the 10% discount on both batteries.... no problem I'll take "one"..... text the kid with the model number and orders to buy himself "one" ..... He picks up the "two" batteries a few days later, I'm all smiles, these people are not real smart. A year and a half later they replace one of the batteries under warranty..... One of two bad!!! No wonder they are a couple hundred dollars more expensive now than a short time ago When I replace any more it will be with the Hawkers or the 24 AGM's from walley world ,better price, better warranty. My 2 cents.

 

[teletech]

When I replace any more it will be with the Hawkers or the 24 AGM's from walley world ,better price, better warranty. My 2 cents.

My experience with a Walmart battery and trying to get it warrantied was the literal worst customer service I've ever had in my life. Several visits at multiple stores trying to resolve a failure of a 2-week-old battery until after five visits I finally gave up. Never again. Napa has never given me a bit of trouble with a warranty or return, let alone made me wait for most of an hour before they told me no.

 

[Mogman]

My experience with a Walmart battery and trying to get it warrantied was the literal worst customer service I've ever had in my life. Several visits at multiple stores trying to resolve a failure of a 2-week-old battery until after five visits I finally gave up. Never again. Napa has never given me a bit of trouble with a warranty or return, let alone made me wait for most of an hour before they told me no.

I have never had that experience with Wally World, that is a shame, I actually have not had to exchange any batteries in the past 10 years or so, all of them have made it past the warranty period.

 

[glcaines]

I have the Odyssey batteries in both my M35A3 and my FLU419. So far, no problems.

 

[teletech]

I have been recommending Odyssey batteries for a while, but I've just recently changed my mind.
Years ago, they were making the Optima batteries in Sweden or someplace and they were outstanding. I dropped one several times, broke a big hole in the case, and still used it for years, I mean really good. Then they sold out, moved production to Mexico and I had three warrantied in the next two years. So, I made the move to the Odyssey batteries, and they were excellent. But looking at my pile of dead Odyssey batteries makes me realize is all the ones I've bought since those first few seem to die after just a few years. For a while I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming I was being really hard on them in one way or another, which was sometimes true, but I just had a failure of one that I'd treated with nothing but kindness and care and then the one time I needed more than a tiny fraction of it's power, a cell shorted out. Still starts the vehicle as part of a 24V pack, but won't charge properly.
I need to try to get it warranted, but I've read a lot of horror stories about them not honoring the warranty, so I'm not hopeful.

So, for me at least, it's finally time to go to LiFePO4. The nice thing about the Iron-phosphate cells is they work on the same charge voltage as a normal 12V lead-acid battery, so no fancy BMS needed, just use four cells per 12V rather than six for lead-acid. I tried it on a small car years ago and it worked, but the price was high and the cells weren't quite robust enough. Now they make some great 200AH cells that are rated for an honest 400+A draw before the voltage sags. 2000-6000 complete cycles depending on who made them. Get the plastic ones and they are insulated, so no outer insulating case required. Another nice feature is since they are individual cells, if one goes bad or gets damaged, just replace that cell. Expect to pay $350-550 per 12V, depending on quality and quantity purchased, so very cost-competitive with prices on a new Hawker or Odyssey 6TL.
A balance-charger is a good idea and they don't take kindly to being discharged 100%, but they don't suffer anything like the LION cells that you kill dead under about 2.2V/cell, no matter how briefly.



Some sample ratings:

Max Continuous discharge current	200A
Max Long Pulse Discharge Current	400A Maximum duration:3min
Max Short Pulse Discharge Current	600A/10S
Dimensions(mm)	L182mm x W72mm x H281mm

Now, 400 or 600A might not seem like anything compared to the CCA numbers you see on traditional lead-acid batteries, but it's not apples-to-apples and the lead-acid battery will drop to 7.2V under load at it's CCA in 30-seconds, where these don't see that big a voltage-drop, so you don't get the slow-cranking you see with lead-acid.

 

[Coug]

I have been recommending Odyssey batteries for a while, but I've just recently changed my mind.
Years ago, they were making the Optima batteries in Sweden or someplace and they were outstanding. I dropped one several times, broke a big hole in the case, and still used it for years, I mean really good. Then they sold out, moved production to Mexico and I had three warrantied in the next two years. So, I made the move to the Odyssey batteries, and they were excellent. But looking at my pile of dead Odyssey batteries makes me realize is all the ones I've bought since those first few seem to die after just a few years. For a while I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming I was being really hard on them in one way or another, which was sometimes true, but I just had a failure of one that I'd treated with nothing but kindness and care and then the one time I needed more than a tiny fraction of it's power, a cell shorted out. Still starts the vehicle as part of a 24V pack, but won't charge properly.
I need to try to get it warranted, but I've read a lot of horror stories about them not honoring the warranty, so I'm not hopeful.

So, for me at least, it's finally time to go to LiFePO4. The nice thing about the Iron-phosphate cells is they work on the same charge voltage as a normal 12V lead-acid battery, so no fancy BMS needed, just use four cells per 12V rather than six for lead-acid. I tried it on a small car years ago and it worked, but the price was high and the cells weren't quite robust enough. Now they make some great 200AH cells that are rated for an honest 400+A draw before the voltage sags. 2000-6000 complete cycles depending on who made them. Get the plastic ones and they are insulated, so no outer insulating case required. Another nice feature is since they are individual cells, if one goes bad or gets damaged, just replace that cell. Expect to pay $350-550 per 12V, depending on quality and quantity purchased, so very cost-competitive with prices on a new Hawker or Odyssey 6TL.
A balance-charger is a good idea and they don't take kindly to being discharged 100%, but they don't suffer anything like the LION cells that you kill dead under about 2.2V/cell, no matter how briefly.

View attachment 896141

Some sample ratings:

Max Continuous discharge current	200A
Max Long Pulse Discharge Current	400A Maximum duration:3min
Max Short Pulse Discharge Current	600A/10S
Dimensions(mm)	L182mm x W72mm x H281mm

Now, 400 or 600A might not seem like anything compared to the CCA numbers you see on traditional lead-acid batteries, but it's not apples-to-apples and the lead-acid battery will drop to 7.2V under load at it's CCA in 30-seconds, where these don't see that big a voltage-drop, so you don't get the slow-cranking you see with lead-acid.

biggest downside I see is if one fails, you're waiting for your supplier to get a new one shipped to you. I suppose that's the same with most 6T series batteries, especially the AGM ones.

 

[teletech]

biggest downside I see is if one fails, you're waiting for your supplier to get a new one shipped to you. I suppose that's the same with most 6T series batteries, especially the AGM ones.

Right, a cell fails open and your whole 12V battery is useless. A cell fails here and you could bypass it or remove it and at least you can still start your truck. Better, you only cave to carry one spare cell to deeply mitigate this risk, so 1/8 vs. 1/2 of the size/weight/cost to have a recovery plan for 24V.

It's also worth noting that you can get a metal-cased cell with better ratings in terms of starting current and run current, but now you have to electrically isolate the cells or very bad things happen.

I did forget to mention that one disadvantage of LIFEPo4 is you can't really charge them at below freezing. You don't loose as much capacity for starting as a lead-acid at cold temps. but you'd need to start the vehicle and then disconnect them until you get the pack up over freezing. So, no fancy BMS, but some thermal management. I tend to forget this stuff as a coastal Californian. EVs use a pack-heater and that would be the right thing to do here.
Of course, using power heats the pack slightly, so if you are starting a diesel in freezing temps, the increase in viscosity in the oil will increase the current needed by the starter, which will heat the cells, so you do get *some* automatic relief there.

 

[JanR]

I have been recommending Odyssey batteries for a while, but I've just recently changed my mind.
Years ago, they were making the Optima batteries in Sweden or someplace and they were outstanding. I dropped one several times, broke a big hole in the case, and still used it for years, I mean really good. Then they sold out, moved production to Mexico and I had three warrantied in the next two years. So, I made the move to the Odyssey batteries, and they were excellent. But looking at my pile of dead Odyssey batteries makes me realize is all the ones I've bought since those first few seem to die after just a few years. For a while I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming I was being really hard on them in one way or another, which was sometimes true, but I just had a failure of one that I'd treated with nothing but kindness and care and then the one time I needed more than a tiny fraction of it's power, a cell shorted out. Still starts the vehicle as part of a 24V pack, but won't charge properly.
I need to try to get it warranted, but I've read a lot of horror stories about them not honoring the warranty, so I'm not hopeful.

So, for me at least, it's finally time to go to LiFePO4. The nice thing about the Iron-phosphate cells is they work on the same charge voltage as a normal 12V lead-acid battery, so no fancy BMS needed, just use four cells per 12V rather than six for lead-acid. I tried it on a small car years ago and it worked, but the price was high and the cells weren't quite robust enough. Now they make some great 200AH cells that are rated for an honest 400+A draw before the voltage sags. 2000-6000 complete cycles depending on who made them. Get the plastic ones and they are insulated, so no outer insulating case required. Another nice feature is since they are individual cells, if one goes bad or gets damaged, just replace that cell. Expect to pay $350-550 per 12V, depending on quality and quantity purchased, so very cost-competitive with prices on a new Hawker or Odyssey 6TL.
A balance-charger is a good idea and they don't take kindly to being discharged 100%, but they don't suffer anything like the LION cells that you kill dead under about 2.2V/cell, no matter how briefly.

View attachment 896141

Some sample ratings:

Max Continuous discharge current	200A
Max Long Pulse Discharge Current	400A Maximum duration:3min
Max Short Pulse Discharge Current	600A/10S
Dimensions(mm)	L182mm x W72mm x H281mm

Now, 400 or 600A might not seem like anything compared to the CCA numbers you see on traditional lead-acid batteries, but it's not apples-to-apples and the lead-acid battery will drop to 7.2V under load at it's CCA in 30-seconds, where these don't see that big a voltage-drop, so you don't get the slow-cranking you see with lead-acid.

Interesting idea. You might not need a fancy BMS, but you still need something to keep the cells in balance. Cell balancers are cheap and easily available.

Another option would be to use 12V LiFePO4 battery packs. These are made as starter batteries and tolerate a high current draw compared to their capacity. The ones I have found are made for motorcycles and have a CCA of around 300A, but you can always put two or three in parallel. They are quite inexpensive.

 

[glcaines]

Interesting idea. You might not need a fancy BMS, but you still need something to keep the cells in balance. Cell balancers are cheap and easily available.

Another option would be to use 12V LiFePO4 battery packs. These are made as starter batteries and tolerate a high current draw compared to their capacity. The ones I have found are made for motorcycles and have a CCA of around 300A, but you can always put two or three in parallel. They are quite inexpensive.

The problem with LiFePO4 batteries is you can't charge them in cold weather, they won't charge at all below 32 deg F. If you try to charge them in cold weather, you will get lithium plating and ruin the battery. To charge them in cold weather, you need to first warm up the battery. This applies to using a battery charger, or charging by the alternator in the vehicle.

 

[blutow]

The nice thing about the Iron-phosphate cells is they work on the same charge voltage as a normal 12V lead-acid battery, so no fancy BMS needed, just use four cells per 12V rather than six for lead-acid.

It can work without a BMS if everything is working well, but all lifepo4 batteries should be built with a BMS in my opinion. Without a BMS, you have no protection against over voltage at the cell (or pack) level. It shouldn't be a problem at the pack level if your alternator/voltage regulator is working properly, but these things do go bad. The bigger risk is at the cell level. If you end up with a bad cell, that can turn into dangerous voltage in the good remaining cells if you don't have a BMS watching things to shut the charging down. Best case, you just destroy the remaining cells by over charging them. When the cells are overcharged, they will swell up and can blow their vents (nasty/dangerous stuff). Worst case, you have a thermal event (ie fire). lifepo4 cells are pretty safe and the risk of fire is low, but there is a reason no respectable company sells a lifepo4 battery without a bms. The other thing a decent BMS will do is prevent operation outside of of certain temps. You will damage a lifepo4 cell pretty quick if you charge it below freezing (which is why they offer batteries with built in heaters to heat up the cells before starting to charge them). Just because you can buy the cells and make them work without a BMS doesn't mean you should. It's certainly people's right to do that if they want, but I'd highly encourage anyone considering this to do a bit of reasearch before you bolt some cells together and use them without a BMS.