OHIO BMV Changed my Street Legal Title from Virginia to Off Road USE only

[98G]

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Not looking for any sort of legal advise from anybody with a JD sheepskin - but I sure would like to hear from somebody who could help us understand this situation. Like most things that seem to be too good to be true, I just can't help but wonder.

I think there are multiple discussion points here:

1. Will insurance pay up in an accident - your fault or the other party - when it costs them a lot of money?
2. In the eyes of the law, are you legally conducting business in that state?
3. In a jury trial - supposedly of your peers - will they believe you weren't trying to circumvent the rules set up to "make people safe"?

I can just imagine (like I may have mentioned before) the lawyers explaining to the jury that this man created a paper corporation to avoid a having a legal title in his or her home state that was stamped "Off Road Only". And how you broke the laws of the great state of (insert name). And how your wanton disregard for human life killed my client with your Off Road Vehicle on the public streets

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Believe me guys, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade.
I just feel like we all need to know more about the possible exposures!

1) They'll have to. But they may cancel and refuse to insure you afterwards.

2) You are. You jumped through the hoops to create the LLC. This of course means you have to have commercial insurance and a CDL (n/a on HMMWVs)

3) A jury of culture war activists may find anything, but the fact is you were in compliance with the laws as written.

 

[Awol]

With your insurance companny fully knowing whats going on?
No games or tricks?
But you dont really have a business in Montana, do you? Half way across the country. Just one on paper?

Correct. No games, no gimmicks, all 100% legal.

Owning an LLC in that state classifies as owning a business and being a resident of the state. It doesn't matter if my operating costs are nothing more than what it takes to maintain the LLC itself.

 

[Mullaney]

Correct. No games, no gimmicks, all 100% legal.

Owning an LLC in that state classifies as owning a business. It doesn't matter if my operating costs are nothing more than what it takes to maintain the LLC itself.

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Not trying to be a doubting thomas, but when the law dogs are standing there with their presentation boards and a pointer...

Mister Mullaney, would you explain to the court why it is that you have an operational LLC but you have never paid any income taxes in the state where you are incorporated to conduct business? (and all the little old ladies gasp!)

 

[porkysplace]

I have no idea about that. I use Montana as a work around, but never have with anything that heavy.

Here in Michigan HMMWV's are off-road only. There a local lawyer from the Detroit area Steve Letho who is well known to the Michigan MV community
he is a former Deuce owner . He has a U-Tube channel called "Letho's Law" and has a indepth look at the problem of the Montana LLC . This is easy to
find on u-tube , I posted a link at one time but the powers that be removed it , which seems strange since they approve posts on the Montana LLC scam .
Mr Letho isn't giving legal advice in the video , his personal experience as a MV owner and lawyer , on how things go once there is a issue.

 

[Maxjeep1]

.
Not looking for any sort of legal advise from anybody with a JD sheepskin - but I sure would like to hear from somebody who could help us understand this situation. Like most things that seem to be too good to be true, I just can't help but wonder.

I think there are multiple discussion points here:

1. Will insurance pay up in an accident - your fault or the other party - when it costs them a lot of money?
2. In the eyes of the law, are you legally conducting business in that state?
3. In a jury trial - supposedly of your peers - will they believe you weren't trying to circumvent the rules set up to "make people safe"?

I can just imagine (like I may have mentioned before) the lawyers explaining to the jury that this man created a paper corporation to avoid a having a legal title in his or her home state that was stamped "Off Road Only". And how you broke the laws of the great state of (insert name). And how your wanton disregard for human life killed my client with your Off Road Vehicle on the public streets

--------

Believe me guys, I don't want to rain on anybody's parade.
I just feel like we all need to know more about the possible exposures!

Help me to understand why this or a Humvee or any reasonable thing similar should be an off-road title only? Is it the emissions and they are worried about a emissions exempt vehicle being on payment but not the dirt? Is it a safety issue and they are more dangerous than a motorcycle that hits 200mph? It seems like we just except what they say and throw common sense out the window. We have a long history of military vehicles being sold and driven by civilians on public roads and highways after all this is a product purchased with our money . I say if it’s legal and within what the criminals have established for themselves and their cronies to avoid doing the right thing then do it and I’m all for doing it! We almost need lobbyists for our passions and to make our voices heard… seems like sema would get involved because this would be a huge aftermarket creating jobs and revenue. Just my and not in anyway attacking anyone but it seems like the conversation needs to be had in a polite and productive way.

 

[osteo16]

As was mentioned before, all states have reciprocal agreements, if it is legally licensed/inspected in YOUR state you should have no problem driving in ANY state.
This all sounds more like an administrative issue rather than a law enforcement issue anyway....

I am curious to hear from some TX folks that have HMMWVs with a GVWR over 10K and what titles the state issued them.

Im curious... You state GVWR over 10K.... My M998 scales at 5800lbs... How the hell does anyone get to 10K ????? WHat thehell is in the bed ? Lead ?

 

[98G]

Im curious... You state GVWR over 10K.... My M998 scales at 5800lbs... How the hell does anyone get to 10K ????? WHat thehell is in the bed ? Lead ?

Some of the heavier variants are rated 12k+ . And as a matter of fact, I *do* believe the intended payloads include a reasonable proportion of lead.

 

[Action]

Im curious... You state GVWR over 10K.... My M998 scales at 5800lbs... How the hell does anyone get to 10K ????? WHat thehell is in the bed ? Lead ?

Your curb weight is 5800. Your data plate will have the GVWR listed. Usually 7700, 10500, or 12100. There are some deviations. This is why halfshafts are listed as 7k, 10k, and 12k. Hmmwvs from the 1980s were 7700.

 

[Coug]

Im curious... You state GVWR over 10K.... My M998 scales at 5800lbs... How the hell does anyone get to 10K ????? WHat thehell is in the bed ? Lead ?

My M1123 scales at 7k with troop seats, Red Dot aircon, and some tools and tire chains in the rear seat footwells.
With the BEOD on it and a bunch of tools/parts I scale at about 9500 lbs.
I still have the heavy spring kit from the Marine Armor Kit installed.

A couple of the guys around here have their trucks set up as GMVs, with armored turrets, fuel/water can racks on the outside, step rails, the works. One still has the original springs in his and it feels like it's floating down the road, it's so overloaded. Easily around 9k lbs load on his, and his buddy upgraded all the suspension and drivetrain in a similar truck and weighs even more. They both do it for airsoft battles.

 

[Awol]

Here in Michigan HMMWV's are off-road only. There a local lawyer from the Detroit area Steve Letho who is well known to the Michigan MV community
he is a former Deuce owner . He has a U-Tube channel called "Letho's Law" and has a indepth look at the problem of the Montana LLC . This is easy to
find on u-tube , I posted a link at one time but the powers that be removed it , which seems strange since they approve posts on the Montana LLC scam .
Mr Letho isn't giving legal advice in the video , his personal experience as a MV owner and lawyer , on how things go once there is a issue.

I'd hardly call it a scam. To be clear, there's no issue registering a Humvee here in MA, but if you have an LLC in Montana you might as well use it and save on sales tax and no inspections.

I suppose if the state you live in refuses to title your truck, and you title it in another state, they could get pissy. That's why I suggested putting it under an LLC. Should you ever get pulled over, it's not your name on the reg, it's the company. It's awful hard for an officer to sit there and prove that you're circumventing the state when your name isn't directly on it.

I guess it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. What I'm fine with others might not be. I suggest anyone to do their research, make calls, emails, even talk to lawyers. I came to my conclusion by doing so.

 

[porkysplace]

I'd hardly call it a scam. To be clear, there's no issue registering a Humvee here in MA, but if you have an LLC in Montana you might as well use it and save on sales tax and no inspections.

I suppose if the state you live in refuses to title your truck, and you title it in another state, they could get pissy. That's why I suggested putting it under an LLC. Should you ever get pulled over, it's not your name on the reg, it's the company. It's awful hard for an officer to sit there and prove that you're circumventing the state when your name isn't directly on it.

I guess it all comes down to what you're comfortable with. What I'm fine with others might not be. I suggest anyone to do their research, make calls, emails, even talk to lawyers. I came to my conclusion by doing so.

Well it depends on state laws ,plus will your insurance cover it since your not actually doing business in the state , oh yeah don't forget those business taxes . It is a scam .

 

[john.quig]

Actually, Ohio BMV made an internal set of guidelines, based on the Updated State law, which states 'No multi-surface capable vehicle may be driven on roads maintained by the State', The BMV specifically targeted the Humvee, because it can go off-road. They also add it is not a 'transport vehicle, meant for people'.
Technically ORC bans any 4x4 or all-wheel drive vehicles on state roads. I have on-road titles for Florida and registration for Vermont. The BMV has added to the memo that they will no longer accept Vermont documentation in the relationship to transferring a vehicle to Ohio.

 

[Jinx]

Actually, Ohio BMV made an internal set of guidelines, based on the Updated State law, which states 'No multi-surface capable vehicle may be driven on roads maintained by the State', The BMV specifically targeted the Humvee, because it can go off-road. They also add it is not a 'transport vehicle, meant for people'.
Technically ORC bans any 4x4 or all-wheel drive vehicles on state roads. I have on-road titles for Florida and registration for Vermont. The BMV has added to the memo that they will no longer accept Vermont documentation in the relationship to transferring a vehicle to Ohio.

I'm jealous you have an on road title for Florida. I've been very leery of even trying to get a title for mine in this state. When I originally bought it in Dec '23, I specifically called and discussed obtaining a title as the checkout on GP would not allow it. She straight up told me GP has an agreement with the Marines not to issue titles to anyone in the state of Florida.