original vs. restored, how are they valued?

[Northwoodsguy]

I have a really nice, 95% original, 1963 M37b1. There are some amazing restorations out there and I am hesitant to do anything to mine as it is in nearly the same condition it was in when purchased from the military surplus sometime in the late 70s to mid 80s. The temptation to add a few things is there but I am reluctant because of its originality. A collector put it in a temp controlled building in 1980s along with his other collectible vehicles, and only drove it on special occasions. He did re-paint it which took it out of the rare "survivor" class. Other than that along with seals, gaskets, tires and other routine maintenance items, it is all original including the canvas. It is a Marine truck complete with paper clips on the front bumper, shackles on the back and even has the original undercoatings that are in unbelievable condition. No rust anywhere. So my question is: typically, are really good originals valued the same as perfect restorations, more or less? Appreciate any feedback.

 

[clinto]

So my question is: typically, are really good originals valued the same as perfect restorations, more or less? Appreciate any feedback.

Most people don't have a good idea of what a "good original" and a "perfect restoration" are.

A good example of a "good original" is something like this:

http://www.streetlegaltv.com/featur...ington-ghost-a-low-mileage-1966-hemi-charger/

The absolute "bottom" of what I'd call a "good original" is this:

http://www.hotrod.com/cars/featured/mopp-1203-1969-plymouth-road-runner-hidden-treasures/


A "perfect restoration" gets used a lot and most of the time, in the wrong way. A perfect restoration is exactly that: It's perfect. It's a nut and bolts, ground up job that not only looks pretty, but is mechanically perfect.

Like this: http://www.moparaction.com/Article/NEW_GOLD/NEW_GOLD.html

More details here: http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=6156475&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1

(I used old Mopars for this since internet articles about them are easier to find than MVs).


So assuming we're talking about really good originals versus perfect originals, it comes down to this:

A. Is a vehicle good enough to be considered a good original;

B. If so, what is your desire? To be the caretaker of such a vehicle, or the owner of a perfectly restored vehicle?

As the joke goes, it's only original once. So if it's nice enough, I am a strong proponent of keeping them unrestored.

But if it's not nice enough (and you're the one who has to make that call) to be "good", then you're kind of painted into a corner-you just have to decide how nice a job you're going to do in painting your way out of the corner.




All that being said, I don't really know M37 values that well. A good original should be worth a lot, but it has to be really good. A good original should be easily mistaken for a full restoration up to about 10 feet. But it's hard to say something like "A good original is worth $10K and a perfect restoration is worth $12K". That's really hard to say.

 

[m16ty]

I've had a few originals that were low mileage and pretty much original in every aspect. The problem I had is I didn't want to drive them in fear that I'd rack up miles or break something that couldn't be replaced with an original part, making it no longer a original.

I finally decided I didn't want a vehicle that I couldn't enjoy using so I sold them all. I had a 1947 Chevy 1-ton with 25,000 actual miles and had pretty much everything on it that it left the factory with, I hated to let it go but I got tired of it just sitting in the garage and looking at it.

 

[rtk]

Put some "lettering" on it and drive and enjoy it . Aside from people like "US"? , most people would not know the difference anyway . As far as it worth , it's only worth what somebody is willing to pay for it and that varies by location , time of the year , if the sun is shinning ,etc, etc , you know the drill . I think you have a GREAT semi-original piece , enjoy it . Most of us are not in this to make a ton of money , just ask my WIFE !!! LOL enjoy the ride , bob k

 

[Storm 51]

You will seldom see fully restored vehicles for sale. That is usually because the person no longer really owns the truck; the truck now "owns" him. He has usually got way, way more money into the truck than he will ever hope to get out of it to say nothing of his time, sweat, spare parts and "accessories" (I swear these vehicles are worst than Barbie dolls for "accessories"!). Thus because there are so few restored trucks that come onto the market that are not a "distress" sale, a market price is hard to establish.

It's just one of the "foggy" areas around these trucks.

Storm 51

 

[Karl kostman]

I most certainly have to agree with Storm 51 you can RESTORE to absolutely brand factory new specs right down to the type of bolts used and you know what that will get you? A whole lot less money and time, always remember our time with these trucks is worth just about exactly ZERO, and all the money your invested in new parts, paint, tires, new engines etc. you will be darned lucky to get 50% of your investment back, the M-37 looks beautiful just the way it is UNLESS your going to have it for the rest of your life, Then knock your self out, when its time to take your losses you will not care anymore! Great looking truck! Good Luck!
Karl

 

[Storm 51]

My M-37 / M-42 is the only pick-up truck I've ever owned. Same with my trailer. I've worn it out and restored it twice. It is absolutely stock, with very few bolt on, non-permanent exceptions. I will have this truck until I die, and then it will be a problem for my wife and kids. If they sell it, it will be 100% profit because they will have nothing into it. If my kids keep it, then it becomes their problem, and may come to own them.

In any event, I walk (or am carried) away from it. It is certainly in better shape now than I am. My truck is only 9 months younger than me.

Storm 51

 

[Tinwoodsman]

I agree with Storm 51 on the cost of restorations. Ask me how I know.

 

[Amer-team]

You are asking a difficult question and I would say your truck, at least from the picture looks to be on the upper end of a restored vehicle. I have a 1967 M715 with 16,000 miles on it and except for the canvas, which has been replaced, this is a dead stock, original vehicle, right down to the 1967 dated Goodyear tires. I like my truck way more than any that I have seen that are restored, but I also don't see a great dollar value in it as the M715 doesn't seem to have the collector following of some other vehicles.

Drive it and enjoy it. And if it needs to go to another home, pick someone that will take care of it and preserve it for another generation.

 

[FrankUSMC]

Me and a very close friend found a M37, that was the 11th one made in the first month of production. This truck was a 100%, survivor. the only thing the fire department did to it was paint it. No extra holes for a pump, they did not remove the tailgate, and are you ready, it even still had all the seat racks, and TOP BOWS on it!!! It also has the early M series light switch still in it (you see them on some early M38s made in 1951).
On this truck, I bought the m37 book that had the production numbers in it for the m37 production run, the serial numbers match, and the data plates have the correct month and year on it. If you look at the M37 site, there are some trucks that are listed as earlier, but the serial numbers are later, so I think the owners were going off the titles (I have been collecting military vehicles since 1976, I faint when I see a correct title).
My friend has done no modifications to the truck other than paint it. He wants me to buy it from him but I all ready have a nice M37. When he goes and lists it, I hope who ever gets it, does not go crazy with it.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET

 

[Amer-team]

You need to get a few pics of serial number 11 up for others to enjoy. It was really interesting to get to see the prototype Gamma Goat at the MVPA convention two years ago. It is amazing that something so early has somehow survived. But back to the earlier value questions, even with a red paint job, a documented number 11 on the data plate if probably going to really turn someone's head when looking for an M37.

 

[bikeman]

If it were a prototype, or the first off the line, or the last, I could see keeping it in exact mint condition. However, it's already been painted, it's not unique in any way. Make it yours, "own it".

 

[Northwoodsguy]

I want to thank all you guys for the great insight and for putting things in perspective for me. One thing no one touched on is registration and insurance. I registered it as had the previous owner as a Historical Vehicle. There are some restrictions like keeping it garaged when not in use and restricted driving but that's okay. The insurance is less than a regular truck. Because I live in Michigan and its condition is nearly perfect, I cannot bring myself to take it anywhere there is salted roads and they salt here a lot! That said, based on all your input, I will enjoy the truck much more and won't just look at it in the garage.
One last comment. I bought this truck with the full expectation of putting my old Army unit markings on it only to find it is a Marine vehicle. I will keep it a Marine vehicle as that is the right thing to do. Semper Fi Frank!
Sp/4 Miller, 8th Ordnance, DS

 

[Amer-team]

Now you will have the fun and opportunity to do some Marine Corp research on proper vehicle markings. You might also find a friend or relative that you respect that served in the Marine Corp and paint it in their unit markings as a tribute. Sometimes you can have some success finding the original markings on bumpers or hoods, but this will require some careful wet sanding, with no guarantee that you will find anything, and it looks like your truck is in pretty nice shape, so you may not want to start sanding on it. Play with some bright lights directed at the bumper in a darkened garage and if you are lucky you may catch a glimpse of raised lettering or numbers and then go from there. Bon chance.

 

[Northwoodsguy]

Thanks, Amer-Team
I have sanded the doors and one side of the hood with some luck. The truck had been repainted once so not a real big deal. In posting the markings on SS the info has been ambiguous at best so I am going with what I think it is based on USMC info I found. It seems my truck was with the 2nd Marine Division, First Battalion, 2nd Marine Regiment. They are mainly at Camp LeJeune which fits with other info I have. Looking forward to Spring when I can drive it again.

 

[FrankUSMC]

I want to thank all you guys for the great insight and for putting things in perspective for me. One thing no one touched on is registration and insurance. I registered it as had the previous owner as a Historical Vehicle. There are some restrictions like keeping it garaged when not in use and restricted driving but that's okay. The insurance is less than a regular truck. Because I live in Michigan and its condition is nearly perfect, I cannot bring myself to take it anywhere there is salted roads and they salt here a lot! That said, based on all your input, I will enjoy the truck much more and won't just look at it in the garage.
One last comment. I bought this truck with the full expectation of putting my old Army unit markings on it only to find it is a Marine vehicle. I will keep it a Marine vehicle as that is the right thing to do. Semper Fi Frank!
Sp/4 Miller, 8th Ordnance, DS

Semper Fi Miller from a 2/4 weapons company Marine.
One of the few, Frank USMC RET.

 

[Amer-team]

Northwood, that is great that you are going to be able to preserve the unit history of the truck. Do you have any time line of where it came from when it left the service? Keep em runnin!

 

[Northwoodsguy]

I do wish I had more info on the truck. All I know right now is that the guy I bought it from had stored it in his temp controlled showroom from 1988 to 2014 when I bought it. He is an older guy and had little info on it. I asked several times but no joy. He couldn't recall a lot about buying it. Said it was from the south, Mississippi or in that region of the country. I know he only put about 250 miles on it in 26 years. Because he drove it so little, I had to replace a lot of seals, hoses and such - leaking from the brake cylinders, differentials, master cylinder and so on. Now it's all set to go except for sticking on a few markings. Looking forward to the spring and a parade or two. Come on summer!

 

[GUNNY 155]

I am with my friend Storm, drive it, enjoy it, go to parades and cruise nights at the local drive ins.

 

[bikeman]

are you saying you served with 8th Ordnance (now) Company? That unit is still in existence. It is 8th Ordnance (AMMO) Company, belonging to either the 264th Combat Sustainment Support Battalion (CSSB) or 189th CSSB under 82nd Sustainment Brigade (formerly 507th Corps Support/DISCOM) under 18th Airborne Corps, Ft. Bragg. I served with them briefly prior to being transferred and deploying to Iraq (44 days after notification of transfer)