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painting over carc

USAFSS-ColdWarrior

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WOW! IF that's true, I'd like to see the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet) on the CARC product.

From my experience as an Aviation Avionics and Electrical Design Engineer:

For years the FAA "thought" by virtue of a wire manufacturing competitor's rumor that TEFLON INSULATED WIRE for aircraft would off-gas CYANIDE in a fire and therefore was threatening to ground ALL aircraft already certified as airworthy if ANY single wire onboard was TEFLON INSULATED. This would have had MULTI-BILLION DOLLAR ramifications on the entire aviation world. At that point there were MANY aircraft equipped with entire wire harnesses of this wire, largely favored by aircraft manufacturers because of it's lighter weight, comparatively smaller outside diameter for equal gauge strands otherwise insulated, higher abrasion resistance, and other favorable factors. Even when presented with the chemical formulations PROVING that those chemicals necessary to generate CYANIDE GAS simply and ABSOLUTELY were NOT PRESENT in the TEFLON PRODUCT, the "all-knowing" FAA still for many months/years perpetuated the FALSE RUMOR that TEFLON INSULATED WIRES involved in even the most minor fire would KILL everyone onboard the aircraft. As I recall, this "scandal" was finally squashed by a (threat of??) lawsuit including CIVIL PENALTIES for the persons refusing to acknowledge the science and TRUTH of the matter.

Just imagine if this was true about teflon. How many cooks have burned dinner while cooking in Teflon coated cookware?!?!?!?!? We'd ALL be dead by now!!!

Hence, while CARC is a very different composition than Teflon, PLEASE confirm whether this is FACT or MALICIOUS RUMOR before perpetuating this alarming claim.
Thank you.
71DeuceAK, dunno where ya got the cyanide intel but it is false. The "guilty" parties in the dust / fumes are isocyanates ( think super glue ). This is what makes this coating stick "like glue" and be "tough as nails". Dupont had a similar (chemically) product under the Imron brand. Beautiful finish, hard as granite, deadly if inhaled or absorbed ( usually through the eyes or other mucus memebranes ). The primer was known "affectionately" as YELLOW DEATH. Also potentially deadly via the same routes during abrasion, stripping, or other means of removal.

The GOOD news : if it's in good shape, there isn't a better surface on the planet to paint over. As noted above, clean, no bare metal ( prime with epoxy ), and a little rough ( it's normal state is perfect, or roughen with 320 if shiny ). Once those conditions are met, spray, roll, brush, throw whatever you want on it.
WHEW!!!

We dodged that CYANIDE bullet, didn't we ?!?!?

It's a worthy education and I'm glad we have chased this rabbit (and assassinated it). It always feels good when the truth prevails, rumors are quelled, and we all become just a little smarter for the experience. :goodjob:


If anyone is interested in a little deeper education, here are some WIKI's on the ISOCYANATE and CYANIDE differences and their associated yet VERY DIFFERENT toxicities.

ISOCYANATE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocyanate

ISOCYANATE's HAZARDS (LOW Toxicity):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isocyanate#Hazards

Versus

CYANIDE:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide

CYANIDE's TOXICITY (HIGHLY TOXIC in many forms):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanide#Toxicity

These links are interesting reading if you're into chemistry, reading that will make you sleepy, and most importantly - THINGS THAT MAY ONE DAY SAVE YOUR LIFE!!!!

Carry on.... and don't forget to wear your PPE (Personal Protective Equipment).
 

juanprado

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My experience with different coatings over carc has been mostly a toss up. I have used Behr latex paint, rattle can from krylon, Rust O leum, and others.

It will initially stick but if there is bare patches of metal, the carc will start to lift at the edges with the other type of paint. In other words you can cover it and it will stick but eventually some of the underlying carc will not be happy at the edges overlapping.
 

someoldmoose

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My experience with different coatings over carc has been mostly a toss up. I have used Behr latex paint, rattle can from krylon, Rust O leum, and others.It will initially stick but if there is bare patches of metal, the carc will start to lift at the edges with the other type of paint. In other words you can cover it and it will stick but eventually some of the underlying carc will not be happy at the edges overlapping.
FROM MY EARLIER : The GOOD news : if it's in good shape, there isn't a better surface on the planet to paint over. As noted above, clean, no bare metal ( prime with epoxy ), and a little rough ( it's normal state is perfect, or roughen with 320 if shiny ). Once those conditions are met, spray, roll, brush, throw whatever you want on it.

Prep is 95 % of ANY paint job. The 6 P's P. P. P. P. P. P.
 
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71DeuceAK

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:ditto: But the YELLOW DEATH thing was really hammered home when a friend almost died from spraying it the same way he sprayed lacquer at the time. PPE was flip-flops, shorts, and a Hawaiian shirt.
Interesting. I've only ever seen spare parts etc on these in normal red rustproofing primer...this was something else?
 

Mos68x

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FROM MY EARLIER : The GOOD news : if it's in good shape, there isn't a better surface on the planet to paint over. As noted above, clean, no bare metal ( prime with epoxy ), and a little rough ( it's normal state is perfect, or roughen with 320 if shiny ). Once those conditions are met, spray, roll, brush, throw whatever you want on it.

Prep is 95 % of ANY paint job. The 6 P's P. P. P. P. P. P.
Very true! Make sure your prep work is spot-on and you won’t have any issues for years to come!
 

someoldmoose

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Yes, it was a 2 part urethane with isocyanate compounds for toughness. Worked great, smelled HORRIBLE, could kill ya if mishandled. Dupont looooooved their chemistry. The top coats we're the same chemical base modified for tintability and gloss.
 

71DeuceAK

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Yes, it was a 2 part urethane with isocyanate compounds for toughness. Worked great, smelled HORRIBLE, could kill ya if mishandled. Dupont looooooved their chemistry. The top coats we're the same chemical base modified for tintability and gloss.
I still learn new things about these trucks every day. So it's from the same makers as the ever-popular Tyvek, found in everthing from structural vapor barriers to mailing envelopes to HazMat suits? I NEVER knew that...
 

someoldmoose

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Yep! I am pretty sure a lot of the military CARC came from just down the road in Wilmington, DE. DuPont's main place at the time. It's nothing mysterious, just hafta use the right equipment when dealing with it. Epoxy primer is actually even worse but it's the best thing out there so it'll be around awhile.
 

Those Military Guys

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SHERMAN WILLIAMS is the company that sold the carc i am pretty sure i would be very careful while sanding it and you can paint over it with no problem it makes a great base coat for the new paint to stick to.
Thank you
TMG
 

19Detail

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I am looking to repaint the interior of the cab of my LMTV. There are some rust spots that I would like to take care of. I was thinking of using a wire wheel to get off the big bits, hit it with Rustoleum Rust Restorer and then prime and paint with some tan Rustoleum Enamel. I also wanted to repaint the the fuse box cover, defroster, etc the same way. Is a good respirator and goggles all I need or am I setting myself up for a Darwin Award?
 

Scrounger

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CARC is some nifty stuff. When painting it the usage of a fresh air source is required, a respirator just doesn’t do it. Grinding on it is a little better, however a fresh air source is recommended.

Now in your case I wouldn’t get overly worried because it is a small project. I would use a good respirator and face shield. I would also have a shop vac set up and on to collect the dust right where the grinding takes place to minimize the dust. I would also mask off the seats to make sure they don’t collect any dust.
 

Duster06

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I guess i should make clear, I am about to bedline the exterior (i have lizard skin on the interior) with Raptor Liner. I have power washed a whole lot of crud off my HMMWV and wonder if i need to prep the old CARC coating anymore than just a good power washing prior to applying the bed liner?
How did this go? Is the raptor Liner still holding up well?
 

Mos68x

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How did this go? Is the raptor Liner still holding up well?
I’m also curious how this turned out, I’m debating on whether or not I want to strip the CARC off before I repaint or raptor it. I may just raptor the truck cab and use regular Rustoleum paint for the rest of my build
 

bachman502

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Not sure if this helps you. I applied raptor liner to the inside of my cab. At first I started to sand the carc. I realized that all I was doing was removing the rough texture that would help adhere the Raptor liner. I pressure washed first. Then addressed any peeling paint. Next I wiped it down with acetone. Turned out very nice.
 

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Mos68x

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Not sure if this helps you. I applied raptor liner to the inside of my cab. At first I started to sand the carc. I realized that all I was doing was removing the rough texture that would help adhere the Raptor liner. I pressure washed first. Then addressed any peeling paint. Next I wiped it down with acetone. Turned out very nice.
I’ve had no problem sanding the CARC down to bare metal, of course I was using my electric DA sander with 36 or 60 grit. The perfectionist in me wants to remove all the CARC so that I can properly apply some industrial coating, but I really don’t want to deal with the dust from it either. Fortunately for me, except for the doors, I don’t have any peeling paint. The bed is another story, but I’m not keeping that so I really don’t care. I swear it has more paint peel than any solid paint on it. I’m still debating on what I want to do with the interior of the truck. I want to at least change the color to black or charcoal grey, but dealing with the CARC on the inside is a whole ‘nother nightmare. I’d probably be better off just taking the cab off and sending it to a local sandblasting shop to deal with it. I also want to figure something out for a custom dash and instrument panel as well, so it would probably be far easier to do that after I have the cab sandblasted.
 
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