Pin-On 20,000lb Garwood

[spicergear]

Two years or so ago I purchased a full front winch set up from m16ty. Great unit, great seller!


Time has come to fit it to the truck. I'm not a huge fan of how the bumper is set way out on the winch trucks...ANY of them, so wanted to make this easy to put on or off. The truck's four shackle mounts at the front of the frame got the nod to be pinned to. I did a partially similar 10K Garwood mount on my Mog. These 20K's are big off the truck and need to be treated a little differently. This is the oil drive set up.

The pics don't show the motor, but you can see the top of the adapter that I trimmed to clear the bottom of the front bumper as this unit would slide back on to mount. Uses the same pins at the four clevises. Top tube is 2"x 6"x 1/4" wall, bottom tube is 3"x 3"x .375 wall. Winch mounting plates have been swapped side to side so the extension part would aim forward and will be trimmed off.

Still more welding to be done. I'm dumb...so I started welding bottom tubes on and winch side plate started to pull and bind my pins. You can see jackbolt I made up to push back to place then weld in bracing. Pretty happy with four point mount so far, have no concerns of strength issues with this set up either...plus bumper stays in place.

 

[gringeltaube]

I like your idea, Tom!
Might want to steal it one day, to do the same, but with a (mechanical)10K-Garwood, fitted to a Deuce.



G.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Nice! I guess the mog winch worked well enough to do on the 939 cargo, huh?

 

[rchalmers3]

Wow, great idea!

I foresee a rolling custom cradle to mount the winch to for storage and for easily mounting to the truck. It would not need hydraulics, just some jack screws to rotate the winch into alignment.

Rick

 

[m16ty]

Good to see you finally getting around to putting that winch to use.

 

[dawico]

I have thought about doing the same type thing with an electric winch. I guess I should get the winch first though.

Looks very good.

 

[98G]

I was also thinking of something similar, but with a winch that can be lifted....

I'm glad to see someone has actually done it.

 

[oboyjohn]

It looks like a great idea but I have some concerns about the set up. Yes I understand it is for installing temporarily on any truck with 4 shackle mounts on the front end, but applying full capacity to the winch that is held in place with 4 pins seems a bit too under strength for my liking. There are reasons for why OEM winches are bolted to frames with lots of big grade 8 bolts. Don't get me wrong, I like it the set up, but was the engineering done to calculate if the 4 pins could take the strain? What about an offset pull where more load goes to fewer pins?

My 2

 

[74M35A2]

It may work out ok. Check for cracks over time as it bounces around. Are you "allowed" to have the winch protrude out past the front bumper like that? Maybe, like a trailer hitch in the rear (is that allowed or should by law it be removed?). If you rear end somebody, you are in the doghouse anyway, so I guess it won't matter. I know at least in some states there are bumper requirements, though I doubt they are ever enforced, one could find themselves explaining it in court, and not knowing the law is never accepted as an excuse. I'm not saying to stop what you are doing or trying to rain on a parade. I'd hate to see your insurance not cover an accident (the medical part, the mechanical portion which is low cost in comparison) because you made a modification which violated your state's DOT code.

 

[98G]

Aren't those pins rated 40,000lbs each?

I'm not aware of a front protrusion prohibition in any state. But I'm not an expert and may well be wrong....

 

[gringeltaube]

.......applying full capacity to the winch that is held in place with 4 pins seems a bit too under strength for my liking....

My two cents: Pins are supposed to be Ø 1" steel, Grade 5 or better. So each one of them has an estimated shear strength of 56.000 pounds - according to more than one source/manufacturer.
But even if someone decided to use pins made of the lowest, cheapest grade steel (say half that value) and then had a situation where only two of the pins had to hold most the load (very unlikely), it would still take more than twice as much as the max. rated capacity of this winch, for the pins to fail.


(I'm 100% sure the OP has done his math...)


G.

 

[Csm Davis]

Okay the pins if he uses tow bar pins will hold almost 90,000 lbs I think he is good there and as to bumpers look around at all the crap the pickup truck guys have on front of their bumpers. But I do have a critique to raise, these winches spread very badly when boxed in by the frame luckily you have the level winder which helps but I would suggest a equally strong piece in front and underneath to stop the sides from spreading and would look at adding angled braces to the sides of the bumper to support any side load that you might see if pulling off angle which I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU DON'T TRY.

 

[zebedee]

....... Are you "allowed" to have the winch protrude out past the front bumper like that? Maybe, like a trailer hitch in the rear (is that allowed or should by law it be removed?). If you rear end somebody, you are in the doghouse anyway, so I guess it won't matter. I know at least in some states there are bumper requirements, though I doubt they are ever enforced ...

74' has valid points, potential consolation though... It could be defended, however it would probably necessitate hiring a "motoring" attorney, who could use the defense which compares it to snow ploughs (plows), crank mounted hyd pumps on things like dust carts (trash trucks), concrete pumps/mixers (cement pumps..) etc., that protrude through the bumper.

You lot are all lucky - in the UK, all solid mounted hood ornaments were banned back in the '80's (some went to break away type, others fold flat, RR went for the disappearing Silver Lady, others just gave up and replaced them with flat badges like Jag-U-uh) due to potential damage to pedestrians.... [First person to post a pic of Boss Hoggs Caddy wins]
Even the 4x4 world got rocked when bumper winches and fairleads were getting prosecuted.

Back to the point in hand - don't forget some lifting eyes on top for mounting.

I had considered a temporary front hitch, mounted with the same eyes.

I know I have posted this pic before, but can't find it now.

Tick tock. Insert Jeopardy music.....

Here's the link to the "Front Pintle" Thread; http://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?92533-Front-tow-pintle&p=1188820&viewfull=1#post1188820
(Thanks Gringletaube for the search/find)

 

[Floridianson]

[QUOTE=74M35A2 I'm not saying to stop what you are doing or trying to rain on a parade. I'd hate to see your insurance not cover an accident (the medical part, the mechanical portion which is low cost in comparison) because you made a modification which violated your state's DOT code.

It looks like a ok set up and I don't know of any Code but any mods away from factory and a good lawyer, well enough said.

 

[oboyjohn]

Hi gringeltaube. You appear to be right. I didn't do any math to come to my conclusion, just using observation. I guess I am old school, or like the look of extra heavy plates and boxes of big bolts holding things together. Keep up the good work!

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

Im of the opinion (from experience doing several projects like this) that the way you plan to do this is bordering on insane...*

 

[98G]

Im of the opinion (from experience doing several projects like this) that the way you plan to do this is bordering on insane... B575

I disagree. I see 4 shackle mounts which are intended to be used at a working load of 40,000lbs each. 4 of them supporting a 20,000lb pull from a winch. I don't see increased length of moment arms adding force to the mounts. I don't see leveraged shear forces.

It should be overkill by a minimum factor of 8 to even hit the shackle mounts' working load, not to mention the point of failure which is several times higher.

I'm not an expert and don't claim to be. You may very well know something I don't. If so, please be more specific than "this hasn't been blessed by a real engineer so therefore it will certainly fail".

The thought occurs to me that we have some real engineers around here and perhaps one of them will chime in and enlighten us all.(I seek enlightenment. I don't claim to know the answers)

 

[gimpyrobb]

Imagine what we would be without if nobody did anything that wasn't approved by an engineer!

Tom has made this modification on another truck already with good results. I'm sure it will work as intended on this truck too.


Rest assured, no unicorns or infants were harmed as of yet!

 

[Scar59]

Imagine what we would be without if nobody did anything that wasn't approved by an engineer!

Tom has made this modification on another truck already with good results. I'm sure it will work as intended on this truck too.


Rest assured, no unicorns or infants were harmed as of yet!

Second that, I have a 24 volt Stepson winch waiting to adapt to the shackle mounts on a M35A3. Keep up the good work. Drawing in post #13 is a great idea.

 

[Bunkerbuilder]

It was more of a liability issue I told a friend about this who works in a industry where he installs hyd equipment on trucks and other off road equipment and he said the liability of this is (his exact words) thru the roof...Part of the reason winches are usually installed via frame rail extentions are side stress when a load is applied off axis IE a fairlead is used and a cable is not pulled directilly in line with the length of the truck... This is what a man told me from pacar several years ago when I was adding a winch onto a M52 I owned.

If it wasnt for liability alot of cautions could be tossed to the wayside..

But this world is very litgious and there are lawyers just looking for people to sue for reasons that can only be explained as greed..

I disagree. I see 4 shackle mounts which are intended to be used at a working load of 40,000lbs each. 4 of them supporting a 20,000lb pull from a winch. I don't see increased length of moment arms adding force to the mounts. I don't see leveraged shear forces.

It should be overkill by a minimum factor of 8 to even hit the shackle mounts' working load, not to mention the point of failure which is several times higher.

I'm not an expert and don't claim to be. You may very well know something I don't. If so, please be more specific than "this hasn't been blessed by a real engineer so therefore it will certainly fail".

The thought occurs to me that we have some real engineers around here and perhaps one of them will chime in and enlighten us all.(I seek enlightenment. I don't claim to know the answers)