Power Steering Possibility?

[Mullaney]

Hmm, My M45-530 C TffT. Is fitted with the air assist Pack, And even with the truck full to the brim with water, And at a standstill I can Easily turn the steering either way to squeeze out of the shop on concrete.
And at shows or driving in confined places I do like to 'Impress' with that lovely 'SWASH SWISH' of the air release sound.
Oh, And I do have an additional air tank to have a much larger air supply reserve.

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Back in the 1980's I drove an Astro95 (twin screw) with air assist stearing. It was a dream to drive and if you had to back into a "crank it around the corner" backing into a loading dock. It had an extra pair of tanks up behind the 5th Wheel platform so it never ran out of air either.
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[rustystud]

This is exactly what I was planning for my deuce, but my main roadblock is in the solid one-piece steering shaft. It's a 7/8 spline at the steering wheel. Thats pretty serious.

I had been looking at Sweet's steering servos. Very similar to the woodwards. The largest splines they have are 3/4". I'm worried that's not going to be strong enough. The last thing I need is the servo becoming the weak link in my steering shaft. Then have total steering failure!

Any opinions? If the steering assist goes out, do I risk breaking the 3/4" servo shafts muscling the steering wheel?

Considering scrapping this plan and doing a garrison drag link valve instead. Waaay easier, but i really dont like the flex lines in the wheel well.

I suppose the splines should at least be as strong as a 1/2" socket drive. Maybe thats good enough?

There's no way your gonna break that 3/4" shaft . Your stock steering shaft is standard 1" schedule 40 pipe. That hardened 3/4" shaft is far stronger than that. The military was using the "Woodward" system on 5 ton trucks so I'm pretty confident it will work on the Deuce.

 

[muthkw25]

I went with the air assist steering. It gives me redundancy should I lose the air assist I still have manual steering. With lockout hubs and g177s on my truck it's literally like having power steering. Makes a huge difference. To each their own.

 

[7bdiver]

The air assist would be a nice easy addon, but when I see prices like over 4k from eastern surplus for the kit, I think... um no thanks. I'm sure one might find it for much cheaper somewhere else, but that sticker shock kind of stuck with me. They quoted me 570 for a 5ton pump all ready to go. I will probably pay em for it. The price on the unit itself is totally ok, but damn, their shipping charge is shameless. Over a hundred bucks to ship a pump! C'mon man. Is it overnight from Antarctica? Anyone here maybe want to beat that price? I've got the time and the money.

I've decided to go the steering servo route just to do it. I got a servo NOS for 150, so that saved me huge. Haven't decided on the assist ram yet. A single ram looks way easier to install, but I keep reading how the double ended is way nicer. Please share your experiences.

Thinking of the PSC 3x9 double ended ram kit off redbarn customs fir under 800 buck. I think its the right one... I should be able to do the entire system in stages with only hours of truck downtime in between setting it all up. If I had my truck all apart, sure I'd do the HF54 box. It has the least amount of hoses running amuck. Plus I'll do a hydromax system, so I'll be putting a pump on it one way or another.

Def jealous of the air system for that sound tho. The deuce is all about the sound!

 

[davidb56]

I got power assist with me all the time. hahahaha

 

[montaillou]

their shipping charge is shameless

Eastern Surplus has the worst shipping rates of any suppliers I've used. Occasionally, I've found a part on there with a reasonable rate, but generally I only buy from them if I absolutely can't find it anywhere else.

If you don't have a good list, shop around, there are quite a few suppliers out there.

 

[7bdiver]

Ok, I finished the system tonight. Where to start...

I wanted to do something different. While a normal power steering box is the most tidy, I still wanted a big-ol ram down there steering the wheels without loading up the sector shaft.

What I've done, is make it "steering assist" with the use of a servo valve put in-line with the existing steering column. Now I have the power of full hydraulic while retaining the original steering box.

While I lost the original horn, I did go ahead and put on a quick detach 18" steering wheel. This alone was damn near worth the project. No more working in the firewall underneath that F'ing 20" wheel!

I fished the wire out and cut that steering column in half with a hacksaw. The outer shaft isn't heavy, but the inside one is 1" schedule 40. Not hardenned, and very easy to cut/weld. I welded three spline adapters to it for the valve and the quick detach hub.

 

[7bdiver]

Here's the valve with the couplers welded on and pretty much in place, and the steering wheel.

The steering wheel is supposed to be for a peterbuilt or something and had an odd non-standard bolt pattern. That was a mistake that cost me some time machining a stupid fancy adapter for it.

 

[7bdiver]

Here's after I put the lines and reservoir on there. The little rediator was mounted under the heater box against fender vents where the hoses. More on that later.

Taking the grill off and pulling the radiator only took an hour, including draining it. I really didnt want to pull the rad, but it was actually much easier than the fretting leading up to it. No way you're gonna cut the radiator shroud to fit the pump in there without pulling it.

 

[7bdiver]

My bud has a torch table at home, so he helped cut the ram base out of 3/8 and also weld it up. Glad I didn't do 1/2, would have been far uneccesary. We used solid wire mig. Did perfectly fine with no issues and was a clean looking job. The flat plate warped some, but not too consequential. I couldnt attach the dxf of the template, so I'll give you guys a pdf tomorrow.

The psc ram has a travel of 9", which is exactly what my steering stops limit to. I set the length of the pitman arms to the same length as the original cross bar. About 55 inches. Haven't tuned that in any closer yet.

After we welded the base plate up, I set the ram on there with everything locked hard right and then tacked the bolt blocks in place so the ram was centered on it. The offset from center on the pumpkin is between 3.5 and 3.875 inches depending on what you read. I made sure to leave myself some extra width on the plate.

 

[7bdiver]

The fittings are all the reusable "field serviceable style. No leaks anywhere, not yet at least. 3/8 line.

How'd it go?

Well, I chose a stiff torsion spec on the valve and I swear you can still turn it at a dead stop if you accidentally sneeze on the wheel. Not exactly what I was going for, but still put a big smile on my face.

I honestly was expecting this type of system to have no problem returning to center. Its the same type of
Valve thats in a oem power steering box. But no, it has no intention of returning to center on its own. I suppose that ram may simply be too powerfull. I dont really want to mess with the caster angle either.

I did a couple mile test drive with lot of turning. No leaks, no funny business. Seemed to work pretty dang good.

Only issue is the power steering fluid got pretty hot. Wouldnt want to hold onto the reservoir with my bare hand more than 6-7 seconds. The little radiator I put on there is too small. I will have to run a bigger one, and on the radiator. I didnt want to run a bunch of hose that far, but I'll burn that puppy down if I don't. I wonder if the double hose block clamp is too tight where it holds the hoses at the chasis.

 

[Mullaney]

The fittings are all the reusable "field serviceable style. No leaks anywhere, not yet at least. 3/8 line.

How'd it go?

Well, I chose a stiff torsion spec on the valve and I swear you can still turn it at a dead stop if you accidentally sneeze on the wheel. Not exactly what I was going for, but still put a big smile on my face.

I honestly was expecting this type of system to have no problem returning to center. Its the same type of
Valve thats in a oem power steering box. But no, it has no intention of returning to center on its own. I suppose that ram may simply be too powerfull. I dont really want to mess with the caster angle either.

I did a couple mile test drive with lot of turning. No leaks, no funny business. Seemed to work pretty dang good.

Only issue is the power steering fluid got pretty hot. Wouldnt want to hold onto the reservoir with my bare hand more than 6-7 seconds. The little radiator I put on there is too small. I will have to run a bigger one, and on the radiator. I didnt want to run a bunch of hose that far, but I'll burn that puppy down if I don't. I wonder if the double hose block clamp is too tight where it holds the hoses at the chasis.

.
Dang. Looks like a heck of a plan!

Having the removable wheel will be really nice if you need to work under the dash. Might be worth cutting a tennis ball (or similar) to drop down on top the "base" so you don't get a knot on your face if you lean over in to it.

Will be interesting to see how the fluid cooling works out. Either a larger tank, maybe add some fins to the tank, or a larger radiator like you mentioned...

 

[sue]

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Dang. Looks like a heck of a plan!

Having the removable wheel will be really nice if you need to work under the dash. Might be worth cutting a tennis ball (or similar) to drop down on top the "base" so you don't get a knot on for face if you lean over in to it.

Will be interesting to see how the fluid cooling works out. Either a larger tank, maybe add some fins to the tank, or a larger radiator like you mentioned...

We put in a hydraulic steering system with a gear driven hydraulic pump a a TAS 65 steering box.
Manual backup, steers like a dream, wouldn’t alter
The force an ounce. Total cost about $700 and that was with new steering box at $400. $75 hoses, $120 pump, $70-90 u joints.?

 

[rustystud]

Good job. I have had all the parts to do mine for 5 years now. Just no time. I wished I had known how close you were to starting your project. I would have shared how I was doing mine. Welding up your shafts that way makes it pretty hard to service it. Also, you will find you will need to "beef-up" the stock steering gear. I had posted a picture of what I did to my gear some years back. All in all though Good Job !

 

[7bdiver]

Man, When I drove the dodge to work this morning, the steering felt super stiff in comparison to the deuce. Thought something was wrong with it for a sec. Plus, there wasn't even a single drip on the concrete under the truck this morning either. That was pleasing. I need to get the alignment set more exactly to the original width and then do the new little cooling radiator and I'll start driving it a lot more. Anyone have a distance between the tie rod ends they like best?

Rusty, You're gonna have to be more specific on beefing up the steering gear. I don't see why. It has maybe a couple ounces of load on it anymore. The servo valve is just slipped into pipe couplers with band clamps. Everything will slide apart when loosened. I'd me more than happy to bounce ideas off ya if you want.

I considered doing a firewall mount for the valve, but idk, I guess that was one of the lazy parts where I cut a corner. That valve is meant to be clamped into a bore, so I basically followed that convention.

Here's the basic shape of that base plate I made. I forgot to annotate the distance from the top of the circle to the edge. That's 7"

 

[Gypsyman]

Beautiful work 7bdiver. Exceptionally clean final product that you ended up with.

I see that you are in the Panhandle and davidb56 is up that direction too. I'm down in Spokane. Didn't realize that there were more of us in the area. I never seem to see Deuces on the road around here.

Richard

 

[7bdiver]

Yeah, I'm in post falls myself. Rarely venture west of the valley though. Someone at the central premix on sullivan has a nice crew cab deuce. Wondered if they were on here. Not many on the road here yet.

 

[Gypsyman]

You're surely not missing anything coming this direction. Wife and I are hoping to jump the line this year and get out of this God forsaken state.

 

[7bdiver]

Heh... I was thinking it, but didn't say it.

If you bring your truck, you are welcome in Idaho!

 

[davidb56]

The fittings are all the reusable "field serviceable style. No leaks anywhere, not yet at least. 3/8 line.

How'd it go?

Well, I chose a stiff torsion spec on the valve and I swear you can still turn it at a dead stop if you accidentally sneeze on the wheel. Not exactly what I was going for, but still put a big smile on my face.

I honestly was expecting this type of system to have no problem returning to center. Its the same type of
Valve thats in a oem power steering box. But no, it has no intention of returning to center on its own. I suppose that ram may simply be too powerfull. I dont really want to mess with the caster angle either.

I did a couple mile test drive with lot of turning. No leaks, no funny business. Seemed to work pretty dang good.

Only issue is the power steering fluid got pretty hot. Wouldnt want to hold onto the reservoir with my bare hand more than 6-7 seconds. The little radiator I put on there is too small. I will have to run a bigger one, and on the radiator. I didnt want to run a bunch of hose that far, but I'll burn that puppy down if I don't. I wonder if the double hose block clamp is too tight where it holds the hoses at the chasis.

If you turn the steering wheel with the engine off, does it feel the same as before adding the hydraulics? Or do you feel extra resistance from the unpowered steering ram?