Random Oil Leaking From Rear Wheel

[yarry23]

Hello Fellow Military Vehicle Enthusiasts and All Round Awesome People,

Recently took the deuce out for a spin, nothing fancy, just being a work mule and hauling some siding for my house I couldn't fit in my lesser, domestic vehicle, and when I got home I noticed I had some oil leaking from the inside rear drivers side wheel. Upon closer inspection it looks like perhaps it was leaking from in side the brakes themselves. Here are some pictures to help describe the situation:



Anyone seen anything like this before? Was going to take the Deuce camping in a few weeks, and want to get everything squared away. My gut instinct tells me that perhaps some seal has blown inside the brake system back there perhaps, but then again this is the same gut that tells me beer and donuts is a valid option for a healthy meal, so your millage may vary.

My next stop is to start staring at the TMs for this section of the vehicle of course. I am also going to fire the beast up and see what happens if I apply some braking pressure once the air tanks are full. I know the deuce is "air assist" for brakes, but I haven't ever torn them apart and rebuilt them or anything (outside of taking the front apart and back together when I redid the front boot seals).

Thanks in advance for any help your are able to offer! Just trying to get a good handle on what needs to be done before tearing apart the wrong part of the vehicle!


~~yarry

 

[rtk]

I think you are going to need some axle seals . It would be a good time to do a complete service of your brakes, repack your wheel bearings and new inner and outer axle seals . It appears that gear oil is leaking into your wheel bearings . FYI , the wheel bearings are lubed with grease not gear oil , what happens is the outer axle seal goes and gear oil mixes with the grease on the bearings which is not a good thing . Not a real bad job , just a little heavy and messy , lots of rags needed ! plus you get to check the brake and wheel cylinder condition . This is the FUN part of owning GREEN IRON !!! LOL good luck Bob k BTW , I might as well say it ,it's in the TM's and the search box above .

 

[M543A2]

I think you need to pull the wheels/hub and check for a leaking brake cylinder. You can cheat for this job by having a sheet of steel about 24" wide and 5 or 6 feet long, its surface oiled. Jack up the wheels until you can just get the sheet under the duals. Remove the axle and locking nuts, seal and bearing then pull the wheel set and brake drum by sliding it out on the oiled sheet. You may need to drop the jack height a bit. It helps to have an assistant, one on each side of the wheel set. You can let the outer bearing and seal come off with the hub if you are careful to catch them when they slide free of the housing end. Be careful, sometimes they come sliding out incredibly easy! When putting the wheel set back look through the axle hole in the hub and carefully align them so you do not damage the hub seal.

 

[yarry23]

Just performed a quick brake check. Let the air tanks fill, cleaned the area under the leak, then put a clean paper towel back there as my ghetto leak detector. Jumped into the cab, pumped the brakes vigorously for a bit, then checked again. No oil on the paper towel. This makes me suspect that what rtk is proposing is true. Upon inspection it does look a lot like gear oil (although admittedly its hard to tell).

Figures. I just replaced my tires with new, awesome, beefy tires and was happy to not have to lift those things into place again. Now they have to come back off! I've never replaced axle seals before. Very hard? Also, any good line on where to get replacements? (EDIT: Looking at Erik's Military Supply right now - seems like a good source) I still have a big bucket O grease from when I did my front wheels, so I can repack the wheel bearings while I'm there as well. I remember chasing my daughters around with "swamp monster" hands last time I did something like this on the front end.

And M543A2, I will check the brake cylinder while I'm down there.


Random (ill advised) question - you think I could get away with a small trip, say less than 100 miles round trip, before doing this job? Or should I stable the beast before venturing forth?

 

[yarry23]

Found a complete axle seal replacement kit on eBay for just under $100. Went ahead and picked it up.

Will let you guys know how the repair goes. Greasy hands, here I come!


~~yarry

 

[Kaiser67M715]

Stable it, bearings need the grease, and the oil will wash it away, plus the oil will get on the brake shoes and render them useless. overall it is not that hard, I have found a tranny jack or motorcycle jack works better then a oil-board(long piece of steel oiled up and slide the tires out) with a motorcycle jack, you just set the tire on the jack and pull, and it is easier to keep the tires level when pulling them away from the axle.

At the very least that one side of the axle, better is to check both sides. IF it is a wheel brake cylinder, check them all-for safety reasons.

plus the rear axle need either a glob of silicone or a cut piece of cork(I used some old Volkswagen Air-cooled valve cover gaskets, some people use Chevy cork valve cover gaskets) this needs to be put in the slot to prevent gear oil from washing out the grease for the wheel bearings.--The TM's will help a lot in the general understating of everything going together and coming apart.

 

[Floridianson]

Good to see the young crowd coming up with good answers.
If the oil slinger in the hub is working the shoes will not get wet if it is and axle leak. Wheel cylinder then yes wet.
Not real bad that gear oil and grease mix but that mix will keep the bearings cool even with a full load. If the wheel cylinder leaking that's worse. But yea you got a little work to do. The TM's have us back off the torque nut 1/4 turn . I like only 1/8 turn back off to keep the outer grease seal a little tighter. So torque to 100/150 back off to lower than 50lbs then re torque to 50lbs then the 1/8. Lock and load the rest of that wheel and move on to the others.

 

[rtk]

It's been a LONG time since I have been in the YOUNGER crowd ! But , thank you !!!! LOL

 

[yarry23]

Great responses guys, much appreciated.

Beast is stabled. Will get seals and stuff on Saturday, postage-Gods willing. I'll pull off the wheels on the leaky section first, see what there is to be seen, then see if I have time to do the others before my camping trip. I will get them all done though. Is it worth it to simply replace the gear oil in the rear axle instead of worrying about it leaking out while I'm doing the repair? As for getting the wheels off, I have a 6' breaker bar I pry under the wheels and jimmy them off with. I like the motorcycle jack idea though.

Thanks for your patience and knowledge BTW. Sometimes (often) I ask stupid questions because I'm still learning, but I guess that's part of the road to wisdom.

 

[rtk]

You should not lose hardly any gear oil when you do your bearing repack and seals , don't forget to check ALL your fluids before the big trip . BTW , when I was younger I did the pry bar trick , but as you get older you get a LITTLE smarter .... sometimes , anyway now I have a tire dolly , wonderful piece of equipment !!! stay safe , Bob k

 

[Kaiser67M715]

first time I was doing my truck, I took off all the tires separate from the hub, course I only had 6, cause someone singled it out before me, but it was heavy and tiresome to do that. I then realized a motorcycle jack would work perfect to remove the tires.

 

[rustystud]

first time I was doing my truck, I took off all the tires separate from the hub, course I only had 6, cause someone singled it out before me, but it was heavy and tiresome to do that. I then realized a motorcycle jack would work perfect to remove the tires.

Save your backs and get a tire dolly. These are what we use to remove all the heavy bus tires. https://www.zoro.com/otc-wheel-doll...gclid=CKfWpZfGg84CFUiTfgodNYMMlw&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[gimpyrobb]

Tire dolly or a pallet jack...

 

[Floridianson]

Save your backs and get a tire dolly. These are what we use to remove all the heavy bus tires. https://www.zoro.com/otc-wheel-doll...gclid=CKfWpZfGg84CFUiTfgodNYMMlw&gclsrc=aw.ds

Yea that's the way to go. Also the wheel dolly has a rear adjuster so the whole set up comes straight off when the axle is jacked just on one side. This is very important when dealing with oil seals as not to damage them on install of the hub. Floor jacks and such you can not change the angle of the hub in relationship to the spindle. Yes they can get pricey but I luv my wheel dolly.

 

[yarry23]

Well, ripped the wheels off, did find some gear oil in the hub, but looks like I got to it in time. No oil on the brakes and they have plenty of pad left. Removed the outer and inner wheel bears - sure enough they have very, very little grease left in them. Good thing I didn't drive off in it!

I've hit a snag though. The inner axle seal. I have no idea how to remove it. In the TM (section 9-4 "Rear Hub and Drum Maint") it simply says "Remove inner bearing (4) and seal (5) from spindle (. Discard seal (5).". I'm looking at the seal, and it appears that the spindle itself covers it slightly, preventing its removal. I'm probably just being dumb, but for the life of me I can't figure out how to remove it in order to replace it. Here is a picture of where I'm at:



If you look closely at the picture, the seal seems to be behind spindle in the middle. How does one get this part out in order to replace it?


I will proceed to cleaning all the other bits, repacking the wheel bearings and what not, but would love some advice on what to do about the above seal. Thanks in advance! Oh, I also think I should investigate this mysterious "tire dolly" I have heard about. I aint getting any younger myself!

 

[yarry23]

I decided to dig around the site for more info, because SS is a gold mine after all. I came across another useful thread, Inner Rear Axle Seal. There the comment is made "Your outer seal and the keyway cork is how the oil gets in. The rear seal just keeps dirt out and grease in the bearing. Start at the outside seal and keyway."

So - perhaps I can just leave the inner seal in place, then make sure my keyway cork is properly blocked, and replace the outer seal. Thoughts?

 

[Kaiser67M715]

That's still part of the seal- if you look at the new one it should be similar-if you don't have a new one for whatever reason, get one

As for removing, I have used a chisel, and you lightly tap at about the 10:00 o'clock and 2:00 o'clock position until the seal just starts to slide forward, the I use a prybar(flat head screwdriver would work in a pinch) and start prying it off, working my way 360 degrees around the seal, multiple times if it's stubborn.

I would get a section of pvc pipe(and end cap) that the diameter is just bigger then the inside diameter of the seal(think it was a 3 inch pipe, but don't quote me). Once you get the seal started on the spindle, you take the end of the pipe and lay it on the seal, this will allow you to evenly drive the seal onto the spindle-without damaging the seal(you can spot hammer marks on the old seal).

I think that just about covers it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rtk]

What Kaiser67 said , best way just rip it off , when you get the new seal it will be self explanatory . Use a good grade of wheel bearing grease . The KEYWAY CORK is VERY important ! , use a little RTV when you install it . You are halfway there , good job !

 

[yarry23]

Well, I didnt get the posting until I had put everything back together! Thus, the old inner seal is still in place on that side. The good news is, I have a new outer seal, I repacked the almost bare wheel bearings (inner and outer) with good grade grease, and I now really know how to tear apart these rear axles.

For the keyhole, the replacement seal kit I got didn't come with any cork, so I had to improvise. I knew it was important to properly block (thanks to good info on this site)the keyhole passage, so I greased everything, then used a wad of blue shop towel torn into the correct size and shoved in there, then covered it with more grease. Kinda lo-fi solution, but I suspect it might just work.

This camping trip is relatively close by (100 mile round trip), so I feel confident everything will be fine. Got everything back together without any spare parts after all! I will then do the other three rear axles and their seals (both inner and outer, now that I know how to remove the inner!) and see if I need to redo the one I just completed.

And ****, are my arms sore after lifting that hub and drum off the spindle. Surprisingly I still managed okay with my giant pry bar and mounting the tires, but I still think I'm going to invest in a tire dolly in the long run.

Thanks to all for your excellent answers! By Jove, I am slowly becoming worthy of owning this **** hunk of American Green Iron!

 

[onemanarmy]

This is the M109 you are working on?

Have you posted pics of it before?