Rebuilding after 15 years of storage

PHOENIX-GER

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any piston have also this verification and measurement of the bores said the same

it was already clear to me that a repair would take place here at some point. But I found no evidence, except the measurement, until my wife saw this painted sign. In mechanical engineering (my job) it is common to verify this on the component. Since I couldn't find anything, I was a little confused. I couldn't believe that this shouldn't be the case in the US.
However, this also means that further drilling is no longer possible here. Should the specialist find out that it is too "worn out" then this means the use of sockets.

So still not the end of the project. It only makes it more expensive. With an engine like this, however, the standards are set differently than with a high-performance racing engine of course within the manufacturer's tolerances.
My own mid-range tolerance reading says it's ok, but I'd like an expert opinion before going any further. The same applies to the pistons, are they still good enough or already used up to the point where it makes sense to replace them. The piston rings are coming already news.
 
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royalflush55

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View attachment 849357
any piston have also this verification and measurement of the bores said the same

it was already clear to me that a repair would take place here at some point. But I found no evidence, except the measurement, until my wife saw this painted sign. In mechanical engineering (my job) it is common to verify this on the component. Since I couldn't find anything, I was a little confused. I couldn't believe that this shouldn't be the case in the US.
However, this also means that further drilling is no longer possible here. Should the specialist find out that it is too "worn out" then this means the use of sockets.

So still not the end of the project. It only makes it more expensive. With an engine like this, however, the standards are set differently than with a high-performance racing engine of course within the manufacturer's tolerances.
My own mid-range tolerance reading says it's ok, but I'd like an expert opinion before going any further. The same applies to the pistons, are they still good enough or already used up to the point where it makes sense to replace them. The piston rings are coming already news.
The bore of a 6.2L is 3.980 inches.
The bore of a 6.5L is 4.060 inches which is .080 bigger than the 6.2L.
Think about that a little bit.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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You could hone those cylinders another .005 and still be the same bore as a 6.5L.
:unsure: Really - i am not so sure of this as Manufactures Oversizes end on this. And there are sockets availaible.
What is the advantage of further drilling or using sockets?
I am not the engine specialist, they will tell me what to do at least.
I do not need more bore or more HP. I just want a technical perfect engine just like before the shutdown 15 years ago

I will not give up that truck just of these Defects.
One of the less with original Break and Indicatorlights in red and functional like in usa. Something what you got today no more longer licenced.
The same of Rollbar and Ram Protection. New laws make it impossible.
All got licenced in 1996 so today we have the "inventory right". I missed in the past to licenced the small licence plate and so i need to use the big one you see on the photos i posted... German law is sometimes complicated and you need to study law to unterstand some of them....
With the registration as a historic vehicle (all about 30 years old) you can sometimes bypass these laws, but it limits the usefulness

But to stick to your example Boring with the manufactores specification does not lead to any change or technical verification as it is still the original engine. But if I were to install the engine with 6.5l and designated 175 hp, I would have to have that entered in the papers because insurance and tax would then be charged. Unfair? a contradiction in terms? That is German law.
Where is this assessed? In an accident. If an inspection reveals that the technical data has been changed, the insurance cover expires ...
If there is a check of a M1008 to see whether the engine was the right one is rather unlikely, this happend more about the would-be racing drivers and their tuning scene.
 

Rutjes

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But to stick to your example Boring with the manufactores specification does not lead to any change or technical verification as it is still the original engine. But if I were to install the engine with 6.5l and designated 175 hp, I would have to have that entered in the papers because insurance and tax would then be charged. Unfair? a contradiction in terms? That is German law.
Where is this assessed? In an accident. If an inspection reveals that the technical data has been changed, the insurance cover expires ...
If there is a check of a M1008 to see whether the engine was the right one is rather unlikely, this happend more about the would-be racing drivers and their tuning scene.
For the technical part I wouldn't worry. The only difference between a 6.2 and 6.5 is the bore size. Block is the same. Legally... do you really think they will measure the cylinders or pistons with a micrometer? I don't. On the outside it will still be a 6.2 and have the same 6.2 and the engine code cast on the block.
 

Mullaney

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Food for thought...

Generally speaking .030 isn't bad.
Boring to .060 isn't awful, but it is getting close to the end of being able to bore it again.

And I am just GUESSING but I just can't see the military boring a Chevy block out to .075 rather than buying a new one.

I don't want to ruin your dreams, but thinner walls generate (won't dissipate) heat as well as a standard block.
The thinner the walls, the more heat.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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For the technical part I wouldn't worry. The only difference between a 6.2 and 6.5 is the bore size. Block is the same. Legally... do you really think they will measure the cylinders or pistons with a micrometer? I don't. On the outside it will still be a 6.2 and have the same 6.2 and the engine code cast on the block.
As I said in an accident with high levels of personal injury would be controlled but this is unlikely to happen in such a vehicle. Regardless of whether there is damage or not, from a purely legal point of view, I have to have the engine change to the newer 6.5l engine displayed and verified. There is no way around it. It's time consuming. I've done that with the G20 with a 5.0 to 5.7 engine. I don't risk my insurance coverage just for convenience. Since I don't need the extra power (175HP) and the cost here is 11,000 euros (brand new not overhauled used engine) only for the engine without subsystems, I'll wait and see what the engine specialist thinks. So far I haven't ordered any spare parts.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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...
And I am just GUESSING but I just can't see the military boring a Chevy block out to .075 rather than buying a new one.
...
That was also my first thought, but in 1989 the truck was still in Army service... so it must be done there. Just three years in Service. I guess less milage and than it make sense to do this.

If the block is the same as the 6.5, the oversized dimension shouldn't be an issue. I do not expect any further drilling. My measurement showed that I am in the middle, still within the wear tolerance. But that should be decided by the specialist. I also do not think that I will demand as much mileage from the car that I will reach the level of wear in my life ...
And finally there is the possibility to get back to the original size with the use of sockets.
Another alternative:
Engine blocks without liners can be provided with a wear and friction reducing coating. This reduces weight and saves space between the cylinders.
Example Nikasil: silicon carbide particles dispersed in a galvanic nickel layer

As i am not a specialist in that case, will this be decided by the specialist

Of course I can also buy a used engine - but what do I get? In better shape than ours? I can't see inside. Usually, the engines are removed, except for cranking whether nothing is stuck is no longer a test possible. And used engine start on 3500 Euro....

I have not set a cost limit for myself, but the money shouldn`t be waste.

My assessment so far: cylinder and piston are OK, no damage on crank and camshaft. Reassembly with new bearings, piston rings, piston pins and seals as well as all screws etc. that have to be replaced after removal. Of course also two new cylinder heads with alle mechanical parts like rocker arms, pins, hydraulic valve lifter. However, first coming the examination by the specialist.... all of these are material-costs around 4500 Euro
On the other hand, there is the purchase of a new 6.5l engine, contact with GM for the approval of the conversion in Germany, verification of the technical change all around here 12500 Euro and i am not sure that all old subsystems will be compatible. I have read about some adapters which are needed. If subsystems need to be change can that price rise up much more
 
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PHOENIX-GER

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Found this on the TMs
TM 9-2815-237-34
2 - 1 6 . CYLINDER BLOCK REPAIR (Cont‘d)
2. Installation of cylinder sleeves.
CAUTION Do not use cylinder sleeves to repair a cracked engine block. NOTE Cylinders that still show damage or wear after being honed to a maximum oversize of 0.030 in. (0.762 mm) will require sleeves.

Ok i used the wrong translation but all of you surely knew what i mean with socket.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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Today we received a decision from the specialist. The engine is completely possibel to rebuilt. It is still possible because the substance is good enough. But it can be seen that the repair was not carried out well. We will probably never know what happened.
Except for the crankshaft, camshaft and connecting rod, all parts will be renewed. So we finally have a new engine because the assembly is carried out by the specialist in order to comply with all specifications and done test-runs.
The price is still well below the cost of a new 6.5l engine

20211105_130443.jpg
 

Mullaney

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Today we received a decision from the specialist. The engine is completely possibel to rebuilt. It is still possible because the substance is good enough. But it can be seen that the repair was not carried out well. We will probably never know what happened.
Except for the crankshaft, camshaft and connecting rod, all parts will be renewed. So we finally have a new engine because the assembly is carried out by the specialist in order to comply with all specifications and done test-runs.
The price is still well below the cost of a new 6.5l engine

View attachment 849767
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That sounds like really good news. Rebuilt can be as good as or better than new when done right. I am sure you have already - but it might be worth asking - What kind of Warranty does this specialist offer on the work that he will complete?
 

PHOENIX-GER

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That sounds like really good news. Rebuilt can be as good as or better than new when done right. I am sure you have already - but it might be worth asking - What kind of Warranty does this specialist offer on the work that he will complete?
As it is a certified professional company, we have 1 year if the job is completely taken by the professionals, including a test run, and of course if it is used properly. Another reason for give this job to a specialist -> Spare Parts about 3000 Euro .... so I'd rather pass the risk on to the specialist.
We got a factory tour and were able to convince ourselves of the professional way of working.
When measuring, he also showed us exactly what was not done well in the repair in 1989 and what constitutes part of the "damage" today. We checked and discussed around 2 hours.
Unfortunately it won't be until early next year before the job can start. The workshop was full of engines that are all still ahead of us .....

We will use the time to go on with the chassis, interior, prepare for paint and at least also give to injectorpump to a specialist for checking. About the long storage is this a recommendation from the engine specialist. And he be right in that point.
Fortunately, stanadyne injection pump technology is widespread in Germany so that there are various providers for inspection and overhaul
This point should not be a big problem
 

PHOENIX-GER

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--- he also showed us exactly what was not done well in the repair in 1989 and what constitutes part of the "damage" today. ----

what exactly?
All cylinders was to much honed exactly on the same, like someone used wrong terms. I can't translate exactly where you can see this beside measurement .... this engine become more and more a surpriseparcel. It is nothing what come of use as it is to much... At least the piston is to small and pistonrings can't done their job perfect. I was myself unsure of my own measurement. But it was right. So he got now sleeves and standardpiston.

A really mystery: of the plate on the engine happened this 1989 just 3 year in service. On all cylinders damage? and gone in first step on 2. oversize? maybe done by a technical student as learning exercise:D
 
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Mullaney

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All cylinders was to much honed exactly on the same, like someone used wrong terms. I can't translate exactly where you can see this beside measurement .... this engine become more and more a surpriseparcel. It is nothing what come of use as it is to much... At least the piston is to small and pistonrings can't done their job perfect. I was myself unsure of my own measurement. But it was right. So he got now sleeves and standardpiston.

A really mystery: of the plate on the engine happened this 1989 just 3 year in service. On all cylinders damage? and gone in first step on 2. oversize? maybe done by a technical student as learning exercise:D
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Should be good to go. Sleeves to bring the bore up to standard size is a good thing. Sleeves that conduct heat away from the bore should make the engine run cooler too.

I personally think I would ask for my (your) .075 pistons. Doesn't matter if they are good or not. They make incredibly neat gifts for friends - and a keepsake for yourself.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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Should be good to go. Sleeves to bring the bore up to standard size is a good thing. Sleeves that conduct heat away from the bore should make the engine run cooler too.

I personally think I would ask for my (your) .075 pistons. Doesn't matter if they are good or not. They make incredibly neat gifts for friends - and a keepsake for yourself.
Good idea - i have a lot of pistons, connectings rods, camshaft, valves of all my years in repairs....also 5,7l gasoline V8 Pistons but no V8 Diesel piston. Will be my first. What i also not have is a defect engine block to make a nice table of it with a glassplate.... engine will be gone throw an acid bath, after this we can clearly checking on cracks. Maybe i can start than my block project :eek: i am still a positiv thinking man! The crack in the head did i saw also just after cleaning bath not before. By the way the pistons and pistonrings are ok and good but to small.... I've seen a lot of damage before, but I've never seen anything like this.

I forget yesterday to say in the engine was the traces on the crankshaft show that there were particles in the engine itself that did not come from use/wear out. The question is under what conditions was the engine repaired. The specialist says something like this can be seen when engines are opened in a dusty and dirty environment. Just for fun, he said it looked like it was being repaired in a gravel pit. I can rule that out with us. We are always aware of the danger and so we have protective the engine of this.

Probably the oil pump was also affected ... I installed 25years ago a VDO oil pressure device but honestly didn't see anything. Just as you know, the engine didn't really run smoothly for all the resuscitation attempts. So I was more next to the truck than insidel. In addition, the dirt can also have clogged the oil channels, which explains our connecting rod damage. All in all, we can be happy that everything is still repairable. It wasn't enough that the engine failed but enough to fail over time. He actually always smoked in the past, I thought that was common, but probably not in the crowd. If it hadn't been stored, it wouldn't have run much longer ...

By the way - specialist ist same opinion like royalflush55 - the engine block on this typ can aware another honing. My complaint that the manufacturer here at the 2. overzise end will not rule out real excess ends. This is due to the design of the engine. If I want to know exactly, I can only make a request to GM whether there is a recommendation there. I've already done that in various other projects. Volvo, for example, is very open. Let's see, I still have a lot of time to see if I ask for their recommendation. Of course, I don't get a release with a guarantee, but I get a notification of no concerns.
Out of this we descide to use sleeves which coming from the engine specialist. This will be exactly honed on the new pistons. The crankshaft will be revised where we reached so first "Undersize", it will be also balanced after this if necessary. All things which i can`t do myself. There are jobs that I can do myself, but there are also jobs that are given to someone who can do better. To complete the engine again would not be a problem for me but let do this by specialist give me the warranty and a certificate of that job. I must spent so more money but this increases the value of the truck as it shown that the engine is rebuilt in new condition. As a potential buyer, I would rather spend more money on a vehicle with verifiable workshop maintenance than on a vehicle that comes from a hobbyist

I checked the mileage. Bought in 1996 with 52652 miles until 1996 by army. Today 29799 (77147 myself 1996-2005) - so it has a total of 129799/208891 usually not a high mileage for such a diesel engine.

20211023_134124.jpg

I was hoping that polishing would fix this - but that's too much.
 

PHOENIX-GER

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Bad oder good news - depending on which side you look at it

Yesterday, despite the weekend, I got a call back from the senior boss of the motor specialty shop: he advises not to work on the block after having talk with his son and viewing the engine. To bad condition, to high the risk on material fatigue/hidden cracks. He would recommend just an overhaul on original size block without High Temperature damage.
On Friday we spoke with the junior boss who made the decision going further with sleeves depending on his father, who has significantly more experience in the field of old engines. However, I did not expect a recommendation to the contrary.

My wish was to keep the engine ... but now I have to deal with alternatives...

Ok - a bit brainstorming
1. I can buy here in Germany from a dealer which is more a wrecker of military vehicels an old 6,2 maybe in same condition as mine... no garantue no test as engine is of the truck costs 3500-4000 Euro
2. I can try to find an used GEP 6500 without Turbo by a dealer in germany with warranty (find a needle in a haystack)
3. I can by a new GEP 6500 without Turbo (easiest but most expensive way to got fast a new engine but probabley missing subsystems)
4. not to forget ebay - most offers of overhauled 6,2 in Poland
5. importing engine of USA maybe also an option but not out of risk (new engine could be a little bit cheaper)

Goal for me:
I want a reliable running truck back
I don`t need more power - so turbo not necessary what means that i can use the most subsystems hopefully
I want an easy plug and play engine

The Injectorpump is DB2 not overhauled but need that surely - i got more as one Note that the problem ist in that glassball in the Pump what we had in the past. I have read that the next generation IP should be better - so I must collect more information about this.

Since this morning I have been looking in the forum for more information on replacing a defective motor for the M1008. I haven't really found anything for my questions. There is the 6.2l fraction and of course a tuning and 6.5l turbo fraction.
I haven't found anything for a simple exchange. The 6500 is said to have eliminated many old weak points, so it makes sense to buy such an engine instead of a used J-engine from Army Service.

I had already thought about it weeks ago, but because I have no information about the compatibility of the subsystems, I took the easier route and wanted to have the existing engine overhauled in the sense of "never change a running system".

Now I have to deal with whether I want to or not....
 

Rutjes

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Bad oder good news - depending on which side you look at it

Yesterday, despite the weekend, I got a call back from the senior boss of the motor specialty shop: he advises not to work on the block after having talk with his son and viewing the engine. To bad condition, to high the risk on material fatigue/hidden cracks. He would recommend just an overhaul on original size block without High Temperature damage.
On Friday we spoke with the junior boss who made the decision going further with sleeves depending on his father, who has significantly more experience in the field of old engines. However, I did not expect a recommendation to the contrary.

My wish was to keep the engine ... but now I have to deal with alternatives...

Ok - a bit brainstorming
1. I can buy here in Germany from a dealer which is more a wrecker of military vehicels an old 6,2 maybe in same condition as mine... no garantue no test as engine is of the truck costs 3500-4000 Euro
2. I can try to find an used GEP 6500 without Turbo by a dealer in germany with warranty (find a needle in a haystack)
3. I can by a new GEP 6500 without Turbo (easiest but most expensive way to got fast a new engine but probabley missing subsystems)
4. not to forget ebay - most offers of overhauled 6,2 in Poland
5. importing engine of USA maybe also an option but not out of risk (new engine could be a little bit cheaper)

Goal for me:
I want a reliable running truck back
I don`t need more power - so turbo not necessary what means that i can use the most subsystems hopefully
I want an easy plug and play engine

The Injectorpump is DB2 not overhauled but need that surely - i got more as one Note that the problem ist in that glassball in the Pump what we had in the past. I have read that the next generation IP should be better - so I must collect more information about this.

Since this morning I have been looking in the forum for more information on replacing a defective motor for the M1008. I haven't really found anything for my questions. There is the 6.2l fraction and of course a tuning and 6.5l turbo fraction.
I haven't found anything for a simple exchange. The 6500 is said to have eliminated many old weak points, so it makes sense to buy such an engine instead of a used J-engine from Army Service.

I had already thought about it weeks ago, but because I have no information about the compatibility of the subsystems, I took the easier route and wanted to have the existing engine overhauled in the sense of "never change a running system".

Now I have to deal with whether I want to or not....
The GEP 6500 (Optimizer) will swap right in. Externally it's pretty much the same block. There's an extra oil pressure port in the valley and one on the front (for turbo). The CUCV v-belt system and other subsystems will transfer over. The metal is supposed to be stronger to battle the cracking issues a long with some other improvements.

If you are going the 6.5 route, why not add a turbo? Having driven both NA and with turbo, I can tell you it will drive much better.

Just to give you an idea about the cost of importing a block from the USA, a friend of mine ordered a Duramax 2 weeks ago. €5500 including shipping.

I got extremely lucky myself and found a GEP 6500 near Amsterdam fro €800 a couple of years ago. It came from a ice re-surfacer. Keep checking online marketplaces. Also keep an eye on Facebook marketplace. Try giving Willem USA in the Netherlands a call or ask Swfb for the guy who supercharged his 6.5, he does a lot of a 6.5s, maybe he can get you one.

Edit: I just did a quick check. If you where to find a block in the Netherlands, a pallet shipment would cost about €140.

I have two 6.2s sitting around that I'm willing to let go. I don't know the internal state, but they came from a M1028 and M1009 and both ran fine. They have been sitting outside for a while now though.
 
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