Remove water from oil./ effective filtering

[Zack]

I have been reading everybodys different ideas on filtering wmo. I have been using 2 five micron filter bags one inside of other.. Hanging over a 5 gal bucket. I am working on building a setup with a 55 gal drum. my plan is to use the bags as a first stage filter into the drum. With two 5 micron bags and a 1 micron bag. Then to pump out of drum i am going to use a oil pump out of a 350 chevy engine. Through a spin on filter.. still in the process of gathering all of the parts to build so no pics yet. My question is for now are the bags good enough to run my truck untill i build my setup...

Now for removing the water... Gonna sound kinda redneck but i was thinking of maybe a turkey fryer....
Please be gentle.

 

[exbrown]

Glad that I did not ask that!

 

[Jimma]

The bags work well. I get mine from Dudadiesel. The main thing is the micron rating and you have that covered with the 5 micron and 1 micron filters. All my oil is filtered through filter bags. So far I have used litterally hundreds of gallons of wvo and wmo that has been filtered through filter bags with no problems.

 

[Oldfart]

Rather than a turkey fryer, I picked up something from GL that I think may work as a water separator. It is labeled as a grease separator.

 

[wreckerman893]

At some point in time you have to let some oil go......in an extreme emergency situation where every drop counted I would try to filter oil that had a lot of water in it but under normal circumstances I cut my losses.

You can set it out in the sun in a dark container and let the heat do some of the work for you and you can filter, filter, filter.

If the oil and water have emusified to the point where it looks like chocolate milk I would say it is too much trouble to fool with. I have 30-40 gallons like that.....I use it for fire starting and other non-fuel projects.

The best course of action is to find oil that has little or no water in it to begin with.

I have a 250 gallon tote that was full to the brim......I have no doubt that there is water in the bottom of it......I will prob leave at least a foot and a half of oil in there unless it looks water free.

Trying to boil the water out in an open container could result in you making an ash of yourself.

Just my two cents FWIW.

 

[paulfarber]

I'm thinking the best way to get rid of the water it to simply filter it through a media that absorbs water more readily than oil.. and the answer is pretty odd. PAPER. Paper will NOT disintegrate in oil yet will absorb water more readily than oil.

Although the Frantz bypass filters are proven, I don't want to pay $250 for one.... I am just going to fab up a holder and pass the oil through it... not really looking for it to filter, just absorb water.

Tractor Supply as fuel/water filters and the carton says that the filter will hold approx 1 cup of water per $10-15 filter element. TP is cheaper and would hold may more water.

So its off to the garage to make me a TP filter.

 

[Kohburn]

If the oil and water have emusified to the point where it looks like chocolate milk I would say it is too much trouble to fool with. I have 30-40 gallons like that.....I use it for fire starting and other non-fuel projects.

tests have shown that mixing in a percentage of gasoline (10%) with no heat has completed the seperation of the foam.

from that point pumping it through a spin on water seperator with a clear drain bowl should help eliminate it.

you could also try to syphon/drain off the bottom of the tank into a bucket till there is little/no sign of water before running through an in-line water seperator.

 

[Kohburn]

a unit like this should help

Racor Alliance Diesel Fuel Filter Water Seperator 6120R | eBay

 

[paulfarber]

a unit like this should help

Racor Alliance Diesel Fuel Filter Water Seperator 6120R | eBay

They sell these for $40 at TSC.

Goldenrod, Water-Block Fuel Filter 496 With Water Absorbing


Goldenrod, Water-Block Fuel Filter 496 With Water Absorbing - 0189529 | Tractor Supply Company

These are the filters that hold approx 1 cup of water before they 'slow down' the flow of fuel.

"Removes water from gasoline and diesel fuel. 15 micron filtration, 5 GPM gravity flow with 24 in head. Water-absorbing polymers trap water and restrict fuel flow which is your signal to replace the element. 9 1/2 in high by 4 in diameter."

Plus side is that the replacement element is $15

Goldenrod, Water-Block Filter 496 Water Absorbing - 3958309 | Tractor Supply Company

Thats a lot of money for 1 cup of water.

 

[Chief_919]

I have sold a lot of immersion heaters to guys using them to rmeove water from WMO and WVO. A lot safer than a truker fryer since the flame is more contained and a lot less likely to catch fire if you overfill.

A guy on Youtube has a series of videos doing it.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="YouTube - M67 Immersion Heater for removing water from WVO Part 5" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Oldfart]

Lets see, If I was still in the lab, I would add some anhydrous ethanol to break the water emulsion, use a glass seperator funnel to tap off the obvious water and then I would pass the remainder over Na2SO4 in a glass column with a fritted disk.

Seriously though, granular sodium sulfate is hydroscopic and will remove water from organic fluids. The "salt" will get clumpy like that famous cat litter and can be removed much the same way. Really large amounts of water will disolve the Na2SO4 into a suryp like solution.

 

['48Chevy6]

I have been reading everybodys different ideas on filtering wmo. I have been using 2 five micron filter bags one inside of other.. Hanging over a 5 gal bucket. I am working on building a setup with a 55 gal drum. my plan is to use the bags as a first stage filter into the drum. With two 5 micron bags and a 1 micron bag. Then to pump out of drum i am going to use a oil pump out of a 350 chevy engine. Through a spin on filter.. still in the process of gathering all of the parts to build so no pics yet. My question is for now are the bags good enough to run my truck untill i build my setup...

Now for removing the water... Gonna sound kinda redneck but i was thinking of maybe a turkey fryer....
Please be gentle.

We used bag filters in the beginning and I replaced a lot of on board fuel filters on my truck. I think that the bags stretch as they hang there full of oil, plus WMO has a bunch of sub-micron contaminants as opposed to WVO which has bigger chunks.

Now we use three spin ons. 22 mic, 15 mic with water seperater, and 5 micron absolute. Truck filter changes are a thing of the past.

We blend with gas first, let settle, and then filter by pulling through the filters. That sbc pump is much too powerful to push through with unless you do a bypass.

I test for water using gasoila on a fence post and set the pump to pull from above the level of the water.

I am happy to pay for good clean oil, but even with that, gas to mix with, and paying the road fuel tax, it's possible to get down close to a dollar a gallon for good clean alternafuel. And you can save a lot with free oil and a different road tax scenario.

Tim

 

[Zack]

Thanks for all of the info guys... I was ready to get my head bit off on the water removal portion but it went great.. I am gonna to go to tsc and get the fuel water seperator. and add it to my set up..but for now while $$$$$$ is tight its gonna have to be the filter bags. And i guess just stay off the bottom of my small containers.

 

[paulfarber]

I have sold a lot of immersion heaters to guys using them to rmeove water from WMO and WVO. A lot safer than a truker fryer since the flame is more contained and a lot less likely to catch fire if you overfill.

A guy on Youtube has a series of videos doing it.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="YouTube - M67 Immersion Heater for removing water from WVO Part 5" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No way I ever put a 55 gallon drum of boiling oil anywhere near me. *MAYBE* if it were double walled. I see no fire extinguishers. Water WILL NOT PUT OUT A CLASS B (or now K) FIRE. Are you people really ready to deal with the possibility of boiling hot/burning oil leaking from a drum?

The problem with all of these 'water removal' systems is that first, no one knows how much water there is to being with, and no one knows how much there is afterwards.

There are testing kits... does anyone have one?

 

[Chief_919]

The problem with all of these 'water removal' systems is that first, no one knows how much water there is to being with, and no one knows how much there is afterwards.

There are testing kits... does anyone have one?

Do you know how the Army tests for water in the oil in the AOAP lab?

They put a sample of the oil on a hot plate/pan

No bubbles forming mean it is dry.

Small bubbles mean a little moisture.

If it sizzles, more water.

If it spatters, a whole lot of water.

 

[paulfarber]

That only tests for presence of water. There are chemical tests that are good down to .01% water by volume... and if you make biodiesel you know the ATSM test for water is the hardest of all to pass.

You can also boil the oil and compare before/after weights.

But to my knowledge none of the processes take the oil to 200+F 160-170 is typical.

Many folks may be using these heaters... but I will pass. No way to control temps... open flames, no ability to react to a problem.

 

[HanksDeuce]

My method of removing water is to heat the oil in a barrel to 150 F for at least 8 hours. The water settles to the bottom and the oil rises to the top. Next, draw the water off a bottom bung in the barrel with a ball valve into a clear hose. Crack the valve open and let the water flow until the stream turns 100% black. I use this method before I gravity drain through 5 sock filters (50/25/10/5/1 micron) and then I pump it back into the barrel and run my centrifuge. Overkill, yes. But I'm a mechanical engineer that over engineers everything.

 

[top_prop]

I'm going to build one of these Centrifigal Filter systems... http://www.burnveg.com/forum/about4.html I just bought a 108 gal /hr CF from Pa bio diesel. The guy who's on the videos at Centrifuge for Dummies answered the phone and was happy to take his time and talk through the various models, how he processes his oil etc. He asked me if I planned on doing bio... I mentioned that was was in the military, moved around a lot, and wanted to stick with just filtering and running SVO or WMO to keep it simple for moves. When I decided on what I wanted, he threw in free shipping, a t-stat, and a pressure relief valve for the listed price and called it a military discount!!!!

Back on topic.... between the heat and the CF (centrifuge filter) it seems to do a great job eliminating water and most other contaminates in any sort of oil, and once I put it together there are no filters to buy just switches to flip and CF to clean. I like simple and effective. I'm not going to spend the money for the barrel band heater... I'm going to build the inline heater like the guy did at the burn veg link above... except I'll put it all on timers and probably through in a T-stat on the heater tube from a Hotwater heater as added protection from over heat/fire.

 

[Zack]

Im sure this has been discussed. Has anybody just used filter socks? How long? What kind of results?? Any damage to the truck? I am just afraid of buring up my IP.

 

[Kohburn]

They sell these for $40 at TSC.

"Removes water from gasoline and diesel fuel. 15 micron filtration, 5 GPM gravity flow with 24 in head. Water-absorbing polymers trap water and restrict fuel flow which is your signal to replace the element. 9 1/2 in high by 4 in diameter."

for the water holding capacity. when used stationary you can either drain it regularly or add tubing to in another sealed container to increase capacity.