Went to the local dmv today, since today is the first day after receiving the sf97 and title from Gl and was able to make the dmv hours. When I presented the paper work to the ladies, they noted the short vin and the recent model a 93. They stated that since that it was newer then a 1980 it had to have the 17# vin. They stated it should not be a big deal and told me to contact a local investigator for the dmv, which I did and several days later he showed up to look at the truck and noticed it did not have the FMVSS Label( federal motor vehicle safety standard label) and was prompt in the response that anything after and including a 68 year date required this placard to be on the vehicle and since it was not there it was not possible to register this vehicle and im screwed.....Any help regarding this issue would be greatly appreciated!!!
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Resistration issues in Iowa!!
- Thread starter acvolt145
- Start date
91W350
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Once again, I am very thankful for the Kansas antique tags and registration.
I wish I had a solution for you. That one really sucks. Glen
I wish I had a solution for you. That one really sucks. Glen
saddamsnightmare
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October 14th, 2011.
Dear acvolt145:
Check with David Doyle on here. He has the letter from the Attorney General of the US to a company that was handling surplused Army vehicles, and the letter stated according to US code that as these vehicles were built to US Army specifications, that they were exempt from all EPA and safety regulations not included in the production contract. Further the exemption passed down to all future owners of the vehicles. This covered the M and other series of vehicles specifically built for the U.S. Government. As long as the vehicle was inspected and accepted by the government at time of delivery, the exemption stands. Even if the truck was listed as a 1995, it was a remanufactured older M35 series truck.One of the other members on here might also be able to direct you to a copy of the letter in question as it is on here somewhere.
Dear acvolt145:
Check with David Doyle on here. He has the letter from the Attorney General of the US to a company that was handling surplused Army vehicles, and the letter stated according to US code that as these vehicles were built to US Army specifications, that they were exempt from all EPA and safety regulations not included in the production contract. Further the exemption passed down to all future owners of the vehicles. This covered the M and other series of vehicles specifically built for the U.S. Government. As long as the vehicle was inspected and accepted by the government at time of delivery, the exemption stands. Even if the truck was listed as a 1995, it was a remanufactured older M35 series truck.One of the other members on here might also be able to direct you to a copy of the letter in question as it is on here somewhere.
KsM715
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I'm sure there are other SS members in IA that have gone thru the registration process. By what the DMV investigator told you, there should be almost no deuces in IA since the majority of them were built after '68
Also, a little confused by your timeline, you state that you went to the DMV today and the investigator showed up a few days later?
AceHigh
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You can get an antique plate for a 1993 truck in Kansas? I am surprised.
Gastrap
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I think this may be the letter mentioned above. May help with the DMV folks.
TO: John M. Tolliday -- President, Dayman USA Inc. (Bedford, VA) , FROM: John Womack -- Acting Chief Counsel, NHTSA
TO: John M. Tolliday -- President, Dayman USA Inc. (Bedford, VA) , FROM: John Womack -- Acting Chief Counsel, NHTSA
sierra117
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Don't know really anything about registration in Iowa but I would suggest that you try a different dmv I heard it has been known to work in other states
Gastrap
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We're stuck with the one office in our county of residence here unfortunately.
Last edited:
Sorry about the confusion, it was Wed. of this week I went and today he showed up, and it seems to be new legislation requiring the safety label. I have a friend in town that has one but it has been registered for a couple of years now, so he beat the new legislation. The one I am trying to register is a 93 M109A4..
rat4spd
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Go to a different DMV station.
quickfarms
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You need to read the link that gastrap posted.
It states that the vehicle is exempt.
You also need to read this new iowa law.
Does a state have the authority to prempt federal law?
It states that the vehicle is exempt.
You also need to read this new iowa law.
Does a state have the authority to prempt federal law?
Bob H
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the frame will still have it's original M109A3 vin likely from the late 60's early 70's
I know of several that had theirs registered that way.
You only have one DMV office where you live, go to a different clerk then and suggest they precede the vin with zero's to make it 17 digits.
I know of several that had theirs registered that way.
You only have one DMV office where you live, go to a different clerk then and suggest they precede the vin with zero's to make it 17 digits.
91W350
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Not as a 1993, but certainly as a 1066 to 1975. Guys are building street rods and titling them as 1932 or whatever. Park it next to a nice 60s model and see how many officers know the difference.You can get an antique plate for a 1993 truck in Kansas? I am surprised.
UPDATE:
Ok, still not much happening on the titling or registration front. I have contacted other offices and just about every official that i could get in touch with...all had the same reply due to Iowa code 321.30 all, yes all vehicles made on or after January 1 1968 are required to have this FMVSS label attached by the manufacturer at time of manufacture to make this legal. Under the code it states the state shall and will refuse to title or register any vehicle 68 or newer, so that is there statement to me and the position they are taking. I have went as far to contact the assistant director for the Iowa DMV, and have contacted the Governors office who put me through to the same person, still same answer NO...so this is a state wide problem that is only going to get worse unless something can happen to change the ruling. In my discussions with Andy Lewis, I happen to note that the forestry service has issued many trucks in the state, some a'2 mostly 5 tons now for fire protection. This went as far as him wanting me to give him a list of stations with these trucks and he would have them investigated for this label due to the fact they are driven on the roadways of Iowa. So this assistant director was wanting me to do his dirty work for him and nark on current owners of trucks and those fire departments so he could have titles revoked. I am now going to send some more e-mails out to the NHTSA and see if i can get the same response but directly for this situation in Iowa and keep the ball rolling, will try to update this post as i come up with new info.
Ok, still not much happening on the titling or registration front. I have contacted other offices and just about every official that i could get in touch with...all had the same reply due to Iowa code 321.30 all, yes all vehicles made on or after January 1 1968 are required to have this FMVSS label attached by the manufacturer at time of manufacture to make this legal. Under the code it states the state shall and will refuse to title or register any vehicle 68 or newer, so that is there statement to me and the position they are taking. I have went as far to contact the assistant director for the Iowa DMV, and have contacted the Governors office who put me through to the same person, still same answer NO...so this is a state wide problem that is only going to get worse unless something can happen to change the ruling. In my discussions with Andy Lewis, I happen to note that the forestry service has issued many trucks in the state, some a'2 mostly 5 tons now for fire protection. This went as far as him wanting me to give him a list of stations with these trucks and he would have them investigated for this label due to the fact they are driven on the roadways of Iowa. So this assistant director was wanting me to do his dirty work for him and nark on current owners of trucks and those fire departments so he could have titles revoked. I am now going to send some more e-mails out to the NHTSA and see if i can get the same response but directly for this situation in Iowa and keep the ball rolling, will try to update this post as i come up with new info.
sierra117
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Maybe you could get another member from a different state to title it and you just simply transfer it to yourself.
Gastrap
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This is the specific paraghraph the state is referencing to the OP:
" 2. Unless otherwise provided for in this chapter, the department
or the county treasurer shall refuse registration and issuance of a
certificate of title unless the vehicle bears a manufacturer's label
pursuant to 49 C.F.R. pt. 567 certifying that the vehicle meets
federal motor vehicle safety standards. "
This mentality is spreading to DMV's across the state. A collector/dealer in another county has apparently been unable to register any A2's since the first of the year after years of registering dozens of them per year.
Looks like this originated with the DOT, and even though it's been on the books since 2006 it's only now becoming a problem.
" 2. Unless otherwise provided for in this chapter, the department
or the county treasurer shall refuse registration and issuance of a
certificate of title unless the vehicle bears a manufacturer's label
pursuant to 49 C.F.R. pt. 567 certifying that the vehicle meets
federal motor vehicle safety standards. "
This mentality is spreading to DMV's across the state. A collector/dealer in another county has apparently been unable to register any A2's since the first of the year after years of registering dozens of them per year.
Looks like this originated with the DOT, and even though it's been on the books since 2006 it's only now becoming a problem.
CatMan
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Registration Issues in Iowa
Having worked on this issue in Wisconsin since 2007 I can tell you all about the rules. We quit beating our heads on the DOT doors and went the legislative route that created a new Wisconsin statute 341.269 that allows the titling and registration of ANY former U.S. manufactured military vehicle as a historic Vehicle. Still requires 25 years or more for foriegn imported military vehicle. So you can register a 1993 papered M35A3 as a Historic Military Vehicle in WI but it took lots of work by many people over several years, an act of the legislature and the governors signatureto get it done.
Yes, I know Wisconsin HMV owners did not get unlimited use and the law has restrictions. We are working on getting the limitations reduced. You never get everything in the first go around.
The issue boiled down is this. The state DOT's across the US are getting thousands of applications for every sort of machine you can think of, and many you can't even imagine. (Think motorized bar stools) They throw former military vehicles in the same group. Claiming that Non Standard vehicles poise a highway safety risk. The DOT has no data to support that fear and at the same time the owners have no data base to prove that former military vehicles are safe.
Getting a former military vehicle of any vintage registered for regular highway operation with higher annual registration fees is an entirely different issue that requires a different approach from Historic Preservation.
I'm happy to discuss the Wisconsin experiance pro and con with anyone considering legislative action to create protection for historic preservation in your state. Don't scream at me as a few emotional people have and I'll share what I have learned. You can send me a PM.
Jeff Rowsam AKA Cat Man
Having worked on this issue in Wisconsin since 2007 I can tell you all about the rules. We quit beating our heads on the DOT doors and went the legislative route that created a new Wisconsin statute 341.269 that allows the titling and registration of ANY former U.S. manufactured military vehicle as a historic Vehicle. Still requires 25 years or more for foriegn imported military vehicle. So you can register a 1993 papered M35A3 as a Historic Military Vehicle in WI but it took lots of work by many people over several years, an act of the legislature and the governors signatureto get it done.
Yes, I know Wisconsin HMV owners did not get unlimited use and the law has restrictions. We are working on getting the limitations reduced. You never get everything in the first go around.
The issue boiled down is this. The state DOT's across the US are getting thousands of applications for every sort of machine you can think of, and many you can't even imagine. (Think motorized bar stools) They throw former military vehicles in the same group. Claiming that Non Standard vehicles poise a highway safety risk. The DOT has no data to support that fear and at the same time the owners have no data base to prove that former military vehicles are safe.
Getting a former military vehicle of any vintage registered for regular highway operation with higher annual registration fees is an entirely different issue that requires a different approach from Historic Preservation.
I'm happy to discuss the Wisconsin experiance pro and con with anyone considering legislative action to create protection for historic preservation in your state. Don't scream at me as a few emotional people have and I'll share what I have learned. You can send me a PM.
Jeff Rowsam AKA Cat Man
joediveguy
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Wow, I would expect this from commiefornia, but Iowa? Hold on to your guns boy’s they are coming for them next! Like CatMan said, forget arguing with the DMV, they are just cogs in the government wheel. Attack the legislative branch with letters and emails, remind the legislators that they are elected officials and they work for you….in theory. Contact your congressman’s office and wave the flag……..”These vehicles are Military Veterans! They have served out country and this is how you treat them? What’s next, taking away our VA medical benefits?”
Good luck, hopefully Virginia and the other states don’t follow suit!
Good luck, hopefully Virginia and the other states don’t follow suit!
Flyingvan911
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Good work, Catman. Good luck, acvolt. Atleast a deuce is easy to "convert" from say, a 1970 to a 1966. If they won't register any deuce, then it's a problem. I hope the DOT/DMV wises up.
This does not sound good. I would contact GL, have them revise the Arizona title with 0s before the serial number to make up your 17number vin. As long as you have 17 numbers to give them, they really won't care if it has the FMVSS label attached.
What county are you in?
What county are you in?