Sold a 1031, titling issues with new buyer, need advise.

[skark_burmer]

Hey guys, i need a few 3rd party opinions and what better place to come?
I can see trouble brewing and im not sure how to proceed. I know what i think is fair, but id like to see what you think.
The new buyer is also on SS, so lets keep this friendly and work to find a fair solution.

Here is the scenario;
I buy CUCV from GovLiq, I never register it. To register these in Ca the total cost is about $700, and since i bought it for a friend and was waiting for him to pay me for it i just sat on it.
Well, "friend" flaked on me and never paid me for the truck so i put the truck on Ebay and sold it.
I have sold unregistered CUCV's & trailers to friends in Texas, Oregon, Michigan and Ca and i give them all my paperwork, a bill of sale from me to them, and there has never been a problem with registration.

Here is part of the description i wrote in Ebay
################################################

The plates pictured with the truck are not included.
The truck is not currently titled or registered. It will come with the documents i got when i bought it from the Government so you can take it to the DMV in your state to register it in your name. I have sold 3 trucks and 2 trailers to friends this way and there are no hang ups or surprises.

###################################################

The new buyer lives in Colorado, flys out to my place, pays for the truck and drives it 1300 miles home.
In Colorado the SF97 needs to be in his name, or the truck needs to be titled previously. The new buyer finds this out when he tries to register it at the DMV this morning.


Here is where the trouble lies.
For me to register it i am going to need the truck in Ca for the vehicle inspection, weigh it, and pay the approx $700 fee.
I have an inquiry into GovLiq about getting a new SF97 with his info on it, but i have a feeling they are going to tell me to take a hike.

With this being said, i have no problem doing the footwork, however the cost of transporting the vehicle back out to Ca, and the DMV fee's are not something i feel like volunteering to cover.

From my point of view i clearly state the the truck is not registered in the description.
"The plates pictured with the truck are not included.
The truck is not currently titled or registered. It will come with the documents i got when i bought it from the Government so you can take it to the DMV in your state to register it in your name. I have sold 3 trucks and 2 trailers to friends this way and there are no hang ups or surprises."
So i feel the buyer should check with their states laws to see what is required before buying.


However i can see the buyers point of view as well, i said that there will be no problem at your DMV based off my previous experiences. And with the truck as it currently sits, is not able to be driven on the road, so its kind of worthless to him.


So what do you guy think is the appropriate course of action for me to take?
I certainly dont want to create any bad-blood between me and the buyer, but i see a storm brewing on the horizon because of the Colorado DMV wrinkle, and the cost involved to iron that out.

 

[skark_burmer]

Oh, we are currently in "negotiations". lol.

 

[86m1028]

The buyer needs to "try" a different dmv.
Most of the sf-97's I have gotten from Gl are not in my name.
They may question it but explain this is the only paper work that you got from the GUBBERMENT.


EDIT: NONE of the sf-97's have been in my name.

 

[skark_burmer]

That was my suggestion but apparently the DMV office he went to spent quite a bit of time on it and provided the textbook to show their answer.
I made 2 calls, one told me what he heard, the other told me that a SF97 in someone elses name, and a bill of sale is sufficient. I'll suggest it again. That would solve the problem.

 

[Warthog]

What worked yesterday may not work today or tomorrow.

You may be able to have the buyer get an inspection in CO from the local anti-theft unit of the police department or highway patrol

I my opinion you should have titled it first and the buyer shpould have never bought it without the title or at least doing his homework first.. YMMV

 

[Ruppster]

How about a double title transfer? This would require you to send the buyer a Power Of Attorney that gives him the power to title the truck in your name first. Then once that's done he can transfer the title to himself. The catch is you will need to pay for the initial title transfer.

 

[epitts]

I remember read a post about rebuilding these trucks and he would use a Vermont title service for all his trucks. And he did not live in Vermont. See Here http://www.steelsoldiers.com/cucv/70154-no-need-ever-use-title-service.html

 

[M923driver]

I just bought a M1009 from GL and paid the $60.00 for the SF97. When it came (about 5 weeks) I had an AZ title in my name instead of the SF97! Nice surprise, took it to the DMV and was done with no confusion. Maybe a very polite, help me please, type of call to GL would work. Can't hurt to try. The power of attorney idea also has merit. I've done that for my son in the USAF so he could register his new car at home. I would also take the advice of going to another DMV office and starting fresh, some of those folks can get quite an attitude if it isn't done their way. Good Luck

 

[Bob H]

My opinion:
Buyer was aware there was no title prior to purchase.
buyer should have checked with Colorado DMV prior to purchasing.
Seller stated 3 other sales with same documents had no issue.
That's nice but buyer should have checked this out himself.

Seller should do what ever needs to be done to assist, short of spending money to do it.

 

[cucv1833]

I just did this with a trailer. I had the SF97 in the sellers name and a "Bill of Sale" notarized!
Then I needed a copy of his drivers license because it was a out of state transfer. I had to pay double taxes because it was never registered. All and all not to bad.
I like going to a title co. vs the DMV Easier to deal with and straight to the point.

I got the title and plates at the same time

Good luck hope this helps.

 

[MakersTeleMark]

Are you absolutely sure that the truck needs to be in CA to get a title, not register it? I got a deuce from out of state, paid extra for him to obtain a title in that state, he mailed it to me, I got a local VIN verification and weighed it here, took it all down to the DMV with proof of insurance and got a plate.

This thread may help: http://www.steelsoldiers.com/sf-97-help/29667-titling-truck-colorado.html

 

[skark_burmer]

In my eyes i clearly state truck was not titled, It is the buyers responsibility to check before bidding. So anything i am doing is going above and beyond.
However i do not like it when people i deal with think they are being dealt a raw deal or taken advantage of, so i am trying to find a solution.

I offered my time to go get it from Colorado, (1300 miles, 2 days drive each way) bring the truck back to California, register it and return it to Colorado if he would cover cost.
Declined, cited additional wear and tear on the truck and cost should be mine.

Offered same deal and split the fuel cost and DMV fees 50/50.
Declined, cited same reasons.


Buyer wants me to refund $2000 because he now views it as a parts truck.
I think that is a poor deal, the truck is far from a pile of parts, and easily registered in most states.

I was going to offer a refund if he wants, but i doubt he will be interested to return it to me. and if i am going to refund the money im certainly not going to incur the cost of recovering it because of his error.


I am going to try and title it in Ca without registering it, hopefully i wont need a vehicle inspection if i only want a title.
We'll see.

 

[73m819]

Yon NEED to remember, in some states, It is ILLLEGLE to sell WITHOUT a title, no matter what you say in a ad, the state law trumps the ad, and because buyers managed to get a title and REG., does not mean anything other then the buyer did not bitch about the no title sale. I believe that CA. is one of those states, when I lived there, I brought a few NON-titled trucks, was told I could take care of titling myself or go back to the seller and either have him fix the title problem OR rescind the sale because of bad/no title, I delt with the problem, because I was aware of it going in., that was MY CHOICE ONLY.
Colorado MAY require a title in hand for a transfer/REG, same as CA., being a OUT OF STATE transfer, the buyer has NO choice but to have a GOOD out of state title.
SO what I am saying is that I believe it is ON YOU to cover what ever it takes to make sure the buyer has a clean title so he can do the transfer, OR give him his money BACK

I believe it is YOUR ERROR not his, check your state DMV laws

 

[doghead]

I thought ebay's policy was, no title, sell as salvage only.

The mention of title is confusing(many states use different terms and policies). When you said it was not currently titled, that sort of implies to me, it was(or may have been) previously, when in fact, it never has been titled.

When the buyer paid you and accepted the vehicle, I think the deal was done.

 

[skark_burmer]

Yes i think this is a learning experience for both of us.

I should have just titled it, but that is spilled milk under the bridge and the horse is outside the barn already on fire.

I have offered 3 solutions to the buyer.
1 i am going to try and get a SF97 with his name on it.
if that fails i am going to try and title it in Ca in my name without the vehicle here and mail him the title with a new bill of sale.
If that fails i have offered a full refund.

 

[B3.3T]

Yon NEED to remember, in some states, It is ILLLEGLE to sell WITHOUT a title, no matter what you say in a ad, the state law trumps the ad, and because buyers managed to get a title and REG., does not mean anything other then the buyer did not bitch about the no title sale. I believe that CA. is one of those states, when I lived there, I brought a few NON-titled trucks, was told I could take care of titling myself or go back to the seller and either have him fix the title problem OR rescind the sale because of bad/no title, I delt with the problem, because I was aware of it going in., that was MY CHOICE ONLY.
Colorado MAY require a title in hand for a transfer/REG, same as CA., being a OUT OF STATE transfer, the buyer has NO choice but to have a GOOD out of state title.
SO what I am saying is that I believe it is ON YOU to cover what ever it takes to make sure the buyer has a clean title so he can do the transfer, OR give him his money BACK

I believe it is YOUR ERROR not his, check your state DMV laws

This would be the case in Ohio for sure. State law requires a title. Is CA the same?

 

[skark_burmer]

I would assume not but i dont know the letter of the law. i have sold a 1009, 1028, 1008 and 2 trailers without ever being titled.
I handed them the SF97, gov-liq invoice and a bill of sale from me to them and they were set.

 

[eagle4g63]

Personally, If the buyer accepted the truck with what paperwork was in hand for the agreed price that he gave you than it is his acceptance as is.....weather it is deamed as a parts/salvage vehicle or not......he bid it to xxx dollars and can not ask for xx dollars BACK cause it is only a "parts truck" it was stated as NON titled.

IF you both agree to refund ALL money and reverse the deal than that is between you guys, but also don't think it would be fair for you to cover cost's of moving it.....buyer originally bought it as NON TITLED and now has a change of heart on the deal.

Again I have had different BMV's try to pull different rules.....check another one or 2 and make sure it can't be handled like that........I know with a police inspection and a signed bill of sale I have had no problems without a title for vehicles before. BUT times are changing.

 

[Warthog]

I would assume not but i dont know the letter of the law. i have sold a 1009, 1028, 1008 and 2 trailers without ever being titled.
I handed them the SF97, gov-liq invoice and a bill of sale from me to them and they were set.

How long ago was that? Rules change daily. With all the states looking for $$$ , they have changed the laws to their benefit.

 

[skark_burmer]

I sold a M101 5 weeks ago, a 1009 8 months ago. But yes, laws change all the time.