Spicer TLC Time! Chipped 4th Gear?

[Bisdale]

I've posted about my poor ol' gear box in my introductory thread, but I'm going to make this thread to follow my part hounding and rebuild process.

I bought my Deuce about a year and change ago and haven't done anything to it (for lack of time) since then. I've recently started overhauling all the little things that aren't quite right along with changing fluids.

The time came to pop open the spicer and replace the gear oil with some 30w non detergent. After having some trouble taking the drain plug out (it was so tight it almost stripped and i was considering welding a bolt to it) one morning i went under there and it just came right loose. I was honestly prepared for some serious sludge, but I certainly was not prepared for what I found. The oil looked pretty good for the possible 10+ years its been in there. Once it had all drained out, I stuck my finder in to test for metal shaving sediment. Oh boy golly-jee did I find me some "shavings". Not your normal fine grit, but HALF TEETH. About 17 of them to be exact. I was shocked! I had had no issues with the gear box prior to this, I was not expecting substantial internal damage.

I pulled the side cover and the top off in order to magnet stick out all the teeth and to find where they came from. To my surprise all the most dominantly visible gears were totally fine. But when I looked down to the counter shaft, I saw the carnage.

All 17 half-teeth came from what I believe to be the counter shaft 4th gear. the meshed gear seemed to be totally undamaged (very surprising to me) so I am unsure how exactly these teeth decided to chip off. These gears seem to be constantly in mesh and what engages them is the collar, but I would be entirely wrong with that assumption.

Here are some pictures:

What i believe to be the 4th gear on the counter shaft:


15 of the 17 chipped off teeth:


The view from above:


So here's where I need y'alls help. I'm very new to this community and I don't know where to get the parts I need. I've seen the rebuilt and non rebuilt boxes for sale from Eastern Surplus. These are an option, but I would like to explore the possibility of fixing this one and perhaps installing an overdrive kit while I'm in there.

I can't find any listings for the 4th gear on the internet, so let me know if you have one. I'm based in Sacramento and I can drive out a state or two (within a reasonable distance) to get it and help take it out of a donor or buy a whole donor gear box. I am willing to pay shipping too. I would just like to explore my options. I've heard of a "Big Mike" who is local to California who might have some parts, anyone know how I can get in contact with him?

 

[Bisdale]

Also, here are the plates on my spicer. I thought these were pretty cool. Says its a 3053A and that it was last overhauled in December of 1986 at Tooele Army Depot in Utah.

 

[gringeltaube]

Technically, that would be the 4th speed counter-gear, yes. But in our #3053s that is the counter-gear for 5th-OD.
It has 46 teeth and its part number is 10914638

See it here: http://whiteowlparts.com/store/store.php?crn=222&rn=691&action=show_detail

 

[Bisdale]

Technically, that would be the 4th speed counter-gear, yes. But in our #3053s that is the counter-gear for 5th-OD.
It has 46 teeth and its part number is 10914638

See it here: http://whiteowlparts.com/store/store.php?crn=222&rn=691&action=show_detail

Interesting. The diagram in my TM shows that being the 4th speed gear, but I could be remembering that wrong. Just to be sure we are both think thinking of the same gear, it is this one here in this picture.

 

[gringeltaube]

Your TM diagram could be generic; in the earlier #3052 model that is 4th gear.

Here is one for the #3053:



Get that gear I told you and have a 15 ton shop press ready to pull the old one.

 

[Menaces Nemesis]

I've posted about my poor ol' gear box in my introductory thread, but I'm going to make this thread to follow my part hounding and rebuild process.

I bought my Deuce about a year and change ago and haven't done anything to it (for lack of time) since then. I've recently started overhauling all the little things that aren't quite right along with changing fluids.

The time came to pop open the spicer and replace the gear oil with some 30w non detergent. After having some trouble taking the drain plug out (it was so tight it almost stripped and i was considering welding a bolt to it) one morning i went under there and it just came right loose. I was honestly prepared for some serious sludge, but I certainly was not prepared for what I found. The oil looked pretty good for the possible 10+ years its been in there. Once it had all drained out, I stuck my finder in to test for metal shaving sediment. Oh boy golly-jee did I find me some "shavings". Not your normal fine grit, but HALF TEETH. About 17 of them to be exact. I was shocked! I had had no issues with the gear box prior to this, I was not expecting substantial internal damage.

I pulled the side cover and the top off in order to magnet stick out all the teeth and to find where they came from. To my surprise all the most dominantly visible gears were totally fine. But when I looked down to the counter shaft, I saw the carnage.

All 17 half-teeth came from what I believe to be the counter shaft 4th gear. the meshed gear seemed to be totally undamaged (very surprising to me) so I am unsure how exactly these teeth decided to chip off. These gears seem to be constantly in mesh and what engages them is the collar, but I would be entirely wrong with that assumption.

Here are some pictures:

What i believe to be the 4th gear on the counter shaft:
View attachment 735824

15 of the 17 chipped off teeth:
View attachment 735823

The view from above:
View attachment 735822

So here's where I need y'alls help. I'm very new to this community and I don't know where to get the parts I need. I've seen the rebuilt and non rebuilt boxes for sale from Eastern Surplus. These are an option, but I would like to explore the possibility of fixing this one and perhaps installing an overdrive kit while I'm in there.

I can't find any listings for the 4th gear on the internet, so let me know if you have one. I'm based in Sacramento and I can drive out a state or two (within a reasonable distance) to get it and help take it out of a donor or buy a whole donor gear box. I am willing to pay shipping too. I would just like to explore my options. I've heard of a "Big Mike" who is local to California who might have some parts, anyone know how I can get in contact with him?

An observation from seeing your avatar, and your statement considering an overdrive kit...
I've got 395's on my truck, and can still (barely) drive up a 5-6% grade without downshifting to 4th. If I had an overdrive kit, I'd be "living" in 4th gear much more, and limiting my speed to about 45 mph on those hills. Also, the Michelin XZL in your avatar is only rated to 55mph anyhow, which is comfortably achieved at about 2200 rpm with my 395's and factory stock 5th overdrive.

 

[simp5782]

An observation from seeing your avatar, and your statement considering an overdrive kit...
I've got 395's on my truck, and can still (barely) drive up a 5-6% grade without downshifting to 4th. If I had an overdrive kit, I'd be "living" in 4th gear much more, and limiting my speed to about 45 mph on those hills. Also, the Michelin XZL in your avatar is only rated to 55mph anyhow, which is comfortably achieved at about 2200 rpm with 395's and my stock 5th overdrive.

Some Michelin XZLs with runflats and wheel combos were meant for the HS mrap setup which means they were rated for 71mph. Feltz was selling a bunch of those awhile back

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

 

[simp5782]

OP. You can also use any spicer transmission you want and choose your own gear ratio you want to get. Around a .79 would not be killer over the .85 it has now. All spicer bellhousings are interchangeable as well as the input shafts. So you can pick a heavier 5000 or 6000 series unit if you want.

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[Menaces Nemesis]

Some Michelin XZLs with runflats and wheel combos were meant for the HS mrap setup which means they were rated for 71mph. Feltz was selling a bunch of those awhile back

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk

That brings up the next question... "would I really want to go much over 55, considering the truck's weight and 70 year-old brake and suspension technology?" With stock tires, seems the OD kit makes much more sense. Just can't see utilizing it much with 395's. Thanks for the info Simp.

 

[gringeltaube]

OP.............. Around a .79 would not be killer over the .85 it has now.

0.79:1 5th is what he has now, not 0.85:1

 

[Bisdale]

You have a point, these trucks already struggle on anything but flat ground in 5th. However, Sacramento is pretty much flat ground all around (yuck)! And being able to go at least 60 without killing the engine would be nice. Thoes extra 5 mph really make a difference when your traveling on a freeway with other cars going ~70mph. I usually find myself shifting into 4th to go up any hills at speed anyways, if not having to drop even lower to 3rd. The real draw back is that those od kits cost about as much as a whole second unit!

 

[simp5782]

0.79:1 5th is what he has now, not 0.85:1

I've seen As at .85 on a few things and 3053Bs at .75. Maybe they are typos?

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[gringeltaube]

I've seen As at .85 on a few things and 3053Bs at .75. Maybe they are typos?

Yeah, the internet.... I would love to take a look inside one of these (military) #3053-A-B-anything, said to be different then 0.79:1 OD .......

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?14337-What-is-the-definitive-3053-A-5th-gear-ratio

 

[Bisdale]

After some thinking I'm going to attempt to rebuild this unit. With the gear Gringeltaube linked on page 1. I am still undecided about if I want to put the overdrive kit in. I'm going to need to assemble a parts list of new bearings, seals, ext... However with my upcoming excursion that I am planning on taking my Deuce on, this rebuild it going to have to wait until I return, probably start gathering parts in a month or so. Thank you for all y'alls help! I will post updates on this thread. Is anyone aware of a thread where someone had documented a spicer rebuild before? I would like to know how in depth I should document my process. Perhaps make a step by step with pictures to go along with the TM? We shall see.