Starter Brackets, Bolts and other starter info

[Tinman84]

Update: SUCCESS!!! Found out that legit end mills are a bit pricey, tried left hand drill bits, cussed a bit, prayed a bit, found out that Dremel makes a bit that is cylindrical and has cutting flutes in the blunt tip and in the sides, and used it to get the busted bolt out.
In the end I boogered up the hole a bit, but not so much that the bolt wouldn't thread and it tightened snugly with a standard ratchet. Since I had the starter out I went ahead and replaced my farmer-fix (affectionate term where I come from) of thread stock with actual through bolts. My parts house accidentally got two that had the support extension on the end, but I went ahead and put them both in anyway. I figure if I ever get in a pinch and the one that's doing the work shears off like the last one, I can just switch them places.
The old beast behaved long enough to let me have a week's break from tinkering, and then help the bro-in-law fix his 4x4 controler on his '94 Chevy pickup, but now it's making noises and I think the transmission may be to blame. Makes sounds like a grating noise, louder near the transmission, rises and falls with the RPMs, and gets much worse when shifted into any gear. I'm thinking it could be the torque converter, but I don't really know. Just started doing it about an hour ago, went from no noise to quite the racket, and I just need to forget about it and get some sleep. If anyone sees this and knows of a specific thread that could be useful, I'd be appreciative of a link, otherwise I'll try to do some searching on here tomorrow before work. Night y'all.

 

[cucvrus]

Check the torque converter bolts. They may be loose on the ring gear / flex plate. Just a thought to help out. Good luck.

 

[KansasBobcat]

I once had a Craftsman torquewrench go bad and I ended up with a broken stud. You might want to have yours checked. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive electronic digital torque adaptor that will work.(It got an excellent review in one of the 4 whell drive magazines)

 

[porkysplace]

I once had a Craftsman torquewrench go bad and I ended up with a broken stud. You might want to have yours checked. Harbor Freight sells an inexpensive electronic digital torque adaptor that will work.(It got an excellent review in one of the 4 whell drive magazines)

I would use a old beam torque wrench before any garbage from Harbor Freight.

 

[Tinman84]

Check the torque converter bolts. They may be loose on the ring gear / flex plate. Just a thought to help out. Good luck.

Good idea sir, I will have to check that out. Forgot to mention I checked the ATF the other night and it was low, so I added about 1/2qt of a product that said it included a stop leak component. Started it this morning and there's no noise, and last night it was fine driving 20mi there and 20 back to watch the Oregon game, but then when I started it about 10min later to run across town it was making quite the racket. Listened to some recordings online of bad torque converters and it sounded rather similar to my noise, but mine was not as bad. Gotta say, if the converter is bad, I'm not looking forward to dropping the tranny. Here's hoping it's the bolts. Don't want to hijack a starter thread, so if I have further issues, I'll be posting in a transmission thread or start one of my own.

 

[TedO]

Last night I was down at the beach, went to start my truck, and heard a lound bang, then a high pitched wine. I found the starter hanging by the cable. Both bolts sheared and left the ends in the block. I didnt see a bracket attached.

1) why does this happen
2) whats the best way to remove the broken bolts from the block

Thanks

 

[TedO]

Let me add the details: 1986 M1008, with new style reduction gear starter.

Is it reasonable to put some loctite on the starter bolts to keep them from getting loose?

 

[Warthog]

1) It happens because of the large amount of torque required to turn the crank on the high compression engine. Without proper support the two bolts will flex and break.

2) Many options. Sometimes if there is any threads still exposed the bolts will come out with just a chisel. If not you will have to center punch and drill the bolts

3) you might use some loctite blue on the bolts. Use the proper factory bolts.

 

[TedO]

I found the support bracket was twisted out of the way and not used. I suspect this is more collateral damage from the time I took it in to a shop.

 

[Warthog]

Okay guys this a starter info thread, not a what size is this do hicky thread. Please start a new one for anything besides a starter.

Moved some other item questions to their own threads.

 

[TedO]

1) It happens because of the large amount of torque required to turn the crank on the high compression engine. Without proper support the two bolts will flex and break.

2) Many options. Sometimes if there is any threads still exposed the bolts will come out with just a chisel. If not you will have to center punch and drill the bolts

3) you might use some loctite blue on the bolts. Use the proper factory bolts.

I spent 6 hrs extracting the broken bolts from the block, and putting on a new starter, this time with attachment to the bracket. This is a new style gear reduction starter on a 1986 M1008. I had a lot of difficulty getting the starter installed. Finally I found to start with all of the bolts loose, then I could get it to fit in the bracket, then tighten down all the bolts.

What I dont understand is that even with a new starter, already I had to get out once with the hammer to tap on the starter. I thought the new starter would end the embarrassing hammer act.

I understand that there isnt any shims with this model, so is there anything else that needs adjusted?

I dont know if its my imagination, but the new starter seems to crank at a higher rpm. It starts it really fast.

I found I am missing the heat shield. Is this critical?

 

[firefox]

Make sure you have the correct support bracket since they are different for the two types.
Since you had a problem getting things to fit, I think it is worth checking out.

 

[cpf240]

You need to measure the clearance / engagement of the starter gear to the flex plate gear, then shim as needed. Don't count on the 'no shim' stuff...

 

[TedO]

Make sure you have the correct support bracket since they are different for the two types.
Since you had a problem getting things to fit, I think it is worth checking out.

It looks like the correct bracket. It has a bend in it.

 

[TedO]

You need to measure the clearance / engagement of the starter gear to the flex plate gear, then shim as needed. Don't count on the 'no shim' stuff...

Is there procedures somewhere on how to do this?

 

[Warthog]

It looks like the correct bracket. It has a bend in it.

Your gear reduction starter requires the straight bracket. It is available at the dealer. that may be why you had a hard time mounting the starter and why the shop did not hook it up previously.

See post #45

The curved bracket is for the older direct drive and is no longer available. Some members have made their own.

There is a detailed procedure to check the starter bendix clearance in the TM 9-2320-289-20 tech manual.

 

[MAZ537]

According to the tech manual, the bracket to block bolt is a M8x1.25x20

Is this a bolt or a stud ? I have seen some pictures they show a stud and a nut instead...

 

[Warthog]

Stock is a bolt. Others have reported other size bolts installed.

Who knows what has been installed over the last 30 years.

 

[TedO]

I am having trouble visualizing the plate with 6 bolts that needs to be removed to set the starter clearance. Is the plate facing the ground, and has metal transmission hoses running across it? If this is it, mine looks like it is held on by 2 out of the 6 bolts. It is pretty big, correct?

 

[cucvrus]

That is the one. The bolts that hold that on are M10 X 1.5 metric. You can put 3/8" bolts in but they are not correct. Use the correct bolts. they can be had at any hardware store.