Static Pinion Angle Thoughts?

[RickTheEngineer]

They are being pretty difficult about this return (which I kind of expected) and I mean while I do like the setup, is the shackle flip the only reasonable thing to do? I dont have the means to reweld the perches or anything like that... But it does make me wonder... For those that have a K5, how did they deal with these crazy driveline angles? Or jeep guys haha, they have short wheel bases too! 16 or so degrees is not able to be shimmed is it? a buddy of mine told me to stack shims but that sounds like a recipe for disaster

 

[Ilikemtb999]

Before I went to a d60/14b, I had 2* shims for my 2" lift. My yoke was further out than originally but still had plenty left in the housing.

I cant speak for a 4" lift because I've never owned one and haven't felt a need to go higher than 2". I like low center of gravity and being able to park in my garage lol

 

[Ilikemtb999]

A shackle flip will give you the best and easiest lift while also helping with flex. I went with a zero lift shackle flip from totally naked auto (local guy to me) and 6" long shackles from diy4x.


Also check this place out for custom drive shafts since it sounds like you can't find a reasonable company.

http://www.4xshaft.com

 

[RickTheEngineer]

a good point haha... but yeah, I am starting to think that I might have to get rid of my 4 inch lift. I was a big fan of the 4 inch look. It is a shame that I spent all that time on her only to have to make a series of returns and exchanges, but it really does make me wonder what is so different about my blazer compared to many other's. I mean at this point, I am seriously debating. If I went with a 2 inch lift, who knows if I am still gonna need driveshaft work, and even then, with all the angle troubles I am having, even if I wanted to get the CV shaft, I still think it'll be a bit steep, even to shim it :/

 

[richingalveston]

I do not know why the springs you have are that far off. I believe the shackle flip gets you between 6 and 8 degrees of pinion rotation upward. With the shackle flip you almost always have to go to cv or you end up shimming down and negate the reason for the shackle flip.

I know a lot of jacked up rigs are just grocery getters and when the get it off road they break stuff so make sure you are not comparing to one of those rigs. Have them put their truck on blocks with the wheels hanging in the air and see what binds and breaks on their trucks when you spin the wheels.

I have the ord shackle flip with zero rates for 5 inches of lift. I had to clearance both my cv joint just a little. My t-case is actually raised (clocked)about an inch from stock and it is a 205. I believe I am at the limits of the blazer driveline. It would take tom woods drive shafts front and rear to get another half inch of lift. I have no shims on the axles. I also have dana 60 and 14 bolt but that should not matter. I do not believe I could make my drive line work at 4 inches without the shackle flip and cv rear driveshaft and be able to get full flex and drop without a bind.

With the cv joint the pinion should point directly at the t-case flange. Remember axle wrap happens in reverse also so don't adjust it to much.
I would agree that the rough country stuff had many bad reviews for being just to stiff. The tough countries are really good. They flex ok and have a really nice ride.

changing one thing on these rigs normally means you have to change two other things also. It just keeps adding up. I know you want to get your truck on the road but something is not right with those springs. I would keep after them to get my money back. Split it with them, keep the front and tell them to take the problem rears and stick em some where nice. Then just get the shackle flip and keep your rear stock springs. It will solve all your problems the cheapest way.

 

[Ilikemtb999]

I'd give offroad designs a call and talk with them. They'll be able to get you all squared away.


Also maybe something that was missed, a shackle flip is pushing the rear of the springs downwards so it'll bring the angle of the pinion up compared to your current spring lift.

 

[RickTheEngineer]

Y'all are wise folk for sure, and good points have been brought up here... shackle flipping ain't a bad idea, and I do know how to use an angle grinder pretty well, however while I do not prefer that route, at least it'll surely allow the use of a CV type shaft. I heard many good things about ORD and I agree that they will probably be the superior company to talk things through with. If I keep my rear springs, wouldn't the drive be rougher in the rear as compared to the new front springs? I only ask because I am not sure if there is anything involving "militarization" of the rears?

 

[Eaglhawk]

Hey, just saw this thread...
Rick... Take a step back from your blazer from the side and look to see If your rear wheels are centered in the wheelwell. Looking at how far your yoke is pulled out of the t-case, I will bet your wheel looks too far to the rear and the center pin is too far back on the springset. I had an issue like that with one of my beater trucks and I simply fabed an offset shim to pull the axle forward 1" to center it in the wheelwell. However, that said, it sounds like you have the wrong springset, (labeled incorrectly?) And in your situation I would take the advice from the others here on the forum and RETURN them. My truck was only a work truck on the ranch and rarely got over 55 mph. The last thing you want to see when you are driving down the highway is your driveline poking up inside your blazer with a bang....

 

[Ilikemtb999]

Y'all are wise folk for sure, and good points have been brought up here... shackle flipping ain't a bad idea, and I do know how to use an angle grinder pretty well, however while I do not prefer that route, at least it'll surely allow the use of a CV type shaft. I heard many good things about ORD and I agree that they will probably be the superior company to talk things through with. If I keep my rear springs, wouldn't the drive be rougher in the rear as compared to the new front springs? I only ask because I am not sure if there is anything involving "militarization" of the rears?

Not really for the m1009. The m1008/28 got all the cool stuff. I think there may be 1 more lead over a comparable civvy unit but that may be just because of the diesel, or completely false lol

 

[Chaski]

Shackle flip.

Every inch of lift with a shackle flip tilts the pinion up about 2 degrees.

52" springs (radius) X 2 = 104" (diameter) X 3.14 (PI) = 326" circumference.

8"(that is how far down the rear of the spring is moved for a 4" shackle flip lift) x 360degrees / 326" = about 8.8 degrees for a 4"flip.

that will at least get you in the neighborhood where you can finish it off with a shim.

ORD makes a nice flip kit, or you could fabricate your own.

 

[RickTheEngineer]

Hey, just saw this thread...
Rick... Take a step back from your blazer from the side and look to see If your rear wheels are centered in the wheelwell. Looking at how far your yoke is pulled out of the t-case, I will bet your wheel looks too far to the rear and the center pin is too far back on the springset. I had an issue like that with one of my beater trucks and I simply fabed an offset shim to pull the axle forward 1" to center it in the wheelwell. However, that said, it sounds like you have the wrong springset, (labeled incorrectly?) And in your situation I would take the advice from the others here on the forum and RETURN them. My truck was only a work truck on the ranch and rarely got over 55 mph. The last thing you want to see when you are driving down the highway is your driveline poking up inside your blazer with a bang....

The tires are definitely centered in those wells! That's what adds to the confusion haha! I posted some pics earlier, it makes me wonder if I have some sort of larger u joints or something that caused my driveline to practically fail... I'll have to either get a lower lift, find a better 4 inch lift, or do shackle flipping surely! And good advice here, with my yoke out as far as it is, I wouldn't dare drive it! Also Ilikemtb999 I see, Ill keep that in mind. That can help keep the cost down that's for sure. Did you have to use a drop pitman arm for a 2 inch lift?

 

[Ilikemtb999]

I did not, it's stock. Just tuff country HD springs. After I get my hands on a 2wd box I plan on fabbing up some crossover steering for it.

 

[RickTheEngineer]

Im going to consider the shackle flip idea for sure, problem is that after looking on the ORD site I think when it is all done the kit will end up costing more than what I have (obviously we are talking higher quality parts, but it's a factor I have to consider)... I would literally pay someone just to figure out why my truck is so different from anyone else. I read up on people who put on 4 inch rough country kits on their K5's and/or M1009's without ANY of the problems I am having... I did a lot more research to determine if the springs I have are really correct and they all lead me to think it is just right. I saw youtube videos of folks putting on 6 inch lifts even without the problems I have. Does anyone have any thoughts on why this must be? Got binding issues, vibrations when I didn't have it minded and I have no clue why I have this and no one else does. My driveshaft is the right length (for stock that is) and it looks unaltered from its original configuration from the 80's. If I can't afford the shackle flip I might be interested in exchanging for a 2 inch lift, but the problem with that is that the 2 inch kit is MORE expensive, so I don't know what to do there. I am sure a wise person would have said to consider all those expenses and you'd be right, I should have. However after lifting 3 vehicles I never had a single problem. It's a shame too because I don't have folks around here with K5's or M1009's. I just dont have the confidence I need to try out a 4 inch kit, even if I straight up called defeat and paid someone to do it, because odds are they will run into the same problem and it'll be another fortune. I just don't get why my driveshaft is as steep as it is, why the yoke pulled out further than folks with a 6 inch lift kit, the binding, the angles not lining up even with a tcase drop, the need to reverse shims, and more... it's such a mystery... I would upload more pics if anyone needed it to try to help me figure this out! Just not sure what to upload!

 

[Ilikemtb999]

So I went back and found where you said the tcase yoke is 0* and the diff yoke is .5*. That's fairly close to equal then assuming we're on the same page and you're following these measuring techniques. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html

if that's true then just a longer driveshaft is what you'd need (and would lessen the angles a touch so would have to probably shim slightly different).


If you go CV then the best way is to cut and rotate the spring perches.

 

[Chaski]

So I went back and found where you said the tcase yoke is 0* and the diff yoke is .5*. That's fairly close to equal then assuming we're on the same page and you're following these measuring techniques. http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-shaft/index2.html

if that's true then just a longer driveshaft is what you'd need (and would lessen the angles a touch so would have to probably shim slightly different).


If you go CV then the best way is to cut and rotate the spring perches.

+1 on the spring perch rotation for the CV driveshaft. That would be the least expensive and most effective thing to do in your case. I was just a space case and didn't think of it. You can cut and grind the old ones off, and get a new set from ORD or someone else. Bolt it all back together, get your pinion angle dialed then weld it.

 

[86m1028]

There is nothing special about your rear driveshaft.

Your over thinking this

RETURN the rear springs (might be the right pn but wrong part).
Buy a different brand of rear springs or do a shackle flip or ???

Why keep throwing money at what is obiviously the wrong setup ?

 

[RickTheEngineer]

Alright guys I think I am finalizing a purchase. I dont think i will be able to afford the full blown Tuff Country Springs and shackle flip combo but I think I might do this. (WARNING - The following might be taboo or even a sin, but it's a thought)

I am considering getting the ORD shackle flip (not buying their super shackles, just keeping the originals) and doing hat for the rear. The pinion should be up about 8 degrees, and then Ill shim it to whatever I need to get a CV in. As for the front, I might just get Rough country front end stuff because if I went with Tuff country's stuff Ill be out another couple hundred bucks, which I could use towards the CV. I am not sure my post is too cringy, but I don't see why it wouldnt work? If there are any flaws here feel free to point them out! I am not huge on ride quality, just need a system that works, is reliable enough, and looks great! I plan to wheel, nothing too too crazy, but there will be flexing every now and then. Thanks everyone for being so patient. Hats off to you steel soldiers!

 

[Ilikemtb999]

Check out these spring rates. This is why people who actually go offroad tend to stay away from companies like rancho, rough country, etc

http://ck5.com/forums/resources/spring-rate-table.14/

 

[RickTheEngineer]

Gotcha, I'll be sure to keep that in mind when picking out new parts. I appreciate the link! By the way, I as looking at those zero rates to add to the leafs and they are about an inch tall. Is that gonna raise the back end up higher than the front? I will probably have to add about a 6° shim in there afterwards which I feel like is going to continue to stack up the height. I definitely want to go as level as possible!

 

[Ilikemtb999]

Hard to say, depends on if your rears have sagged at all. The front openings are bigger than the rears so the rear would need to be slightly taller to look level