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Storm Chasing in a M35A2

EF-5

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Hey! Thanks for the speedy replies. I welcome all of your comments. I enjoy the humor you all bring to the table. :D I see a lot of very good points. Especially USAFSS-ColdWarrior's table list. So it seems like if I happened to chase in a M35A2 I would definitely get new windshield wipers. roflHowever, I do like that fact that the deuce can almost instantly be turned into a rescue vehicle. The plan is get behind the gust front of a severe storm and not close enough to a tornado to be blown over, but not everything goes according to plan; so that is to take into account. I definitely like the price that the M35 offers. So does anyone think there is anyway around the cons such as: leaky windows and foggy glass? Any other ideas on vehicles would be great. I just wanted something a little bigger than the typical chase vehicle.

Just curious what would be the difference in wind resistance between the deuce and this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4271328131_4b900ce987_z.jpg?zz=1

Thanks!!
 

SixSpeed

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That DOW is a pretty big truck. I'd say both are equally as 'bad' for aerodynamics.

I have an extreme interest in storms, and have pondered a storm chasing vehicle for hours on end. It all comes down to how close you want to get. Some of the chase vehicles out there (think TIV/Dominator) have gone the route of aerodynamics, which is the only way to get THAT close to a tornado, but their major downfall comes in capabilities. When you are talking about aerodynamics, you have to talk about low, and that as we know is NO good for offroading. Both of those vehicles seem to be defeated by a small tree or a little light mud.

The TIV is one **** of a vehicle, it seems to be strong and fest enough to be good at chasing. Its based off a Ram 3500, with some tuning by ATS diesel. I think that is a pretty good platform, but at 17,000lbs they are pushing the GVW of a 1-Ton truck (Note, not CGVW). The Deuce would be a little slow for sure, but would certainly always GET you there. You also have the option of taking it in a direct line between "A and B" should the need arise, you aren't limited to paved/graded roads.

You could easily tack on some "armor" to the deuce. Its not like it would care about any added weight. Think "Gun Truck". Weight is a good thing for debris/wind protection, bad for speed. But its already slow so who cares.

The Deuce would make a good "Reponse Vehicle" and distant chase vehicle, but I don't think its fast or aerodynamic enough to get too close. Small buildings/trees in the road no problem.

What would I choose to chase storms? A Stryker is probably the closest production thing that would work. And as we know production vehicles are usually more reliable than a vehicle modified to do a job. But of course cost and availability MIGHT be an issue.

 

EF-5

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Thanks for the response SixSpeed! I agree, if I could get my hands on a Stryker that would be the end of my questions! :mrgreen: Aerodynamics definitely helps determine how close you can get to a tornado. For all tends and purposes now, getting within several hundred yards of a tornado is out of the question. Notice I said now :twisted:. I am currently studying MET at SPSU, and engineering something similar to the TIV and Dominator is definitely in my future. Right now I want to become more involved in the science side of storm chasing, but the thrill is definitely there. I really would like to observe tornadoes from a distance (much like my picture), but still within the storm; much like the DOW. So would you say a M35 or M109 is a good contestant for distant observation?
 

SixSpeed

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So would you say a M35 or M109 is a good contestant for distant observation?
The only REAL downside of a Deuce for observation, would be the fact that they don't necessarily LIKE a lot of highway driving. Some 15.5R20 Super Single would help for sure, and keeping up on maintenance/bearings lubrication would pretty much rule out any problems you might have.

But, for the money a Deuce can be bought, would I buy any other vehicle? I don't think so. A couple easy modifications and its one stout vehicle, I'd much rather be in a Deuce than some econobox or minivan! I'd certainly feel safer. The big plus side for me would be its capabilities. When going through a ditch/field/tree/someones house is the difference between life and death, I know which one I'd take.

Good for hurricanes too!
 

EF-5

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Ha! I just might have to try a deuce in a hurricane. But thanks for your input! I have some things to think about now. I'm really liking the idea that it can go anywhere; a very usefull capability. A lot of observation points are not just fixed to the interstate. I've seen some tricks to make it more highway friendly like you mentioned. I will definitely be looking into this more.
 

gimpyrobb

dumpsterlandingfromorbit!
27,785
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Cincy Ohio
Hey! Thanks for the speedy replies. I welcome all of your comments. I enjoy the humor you all bring to the table. :D I see a lot of very good points. Especially USAFSS-ColdWarrior's table list. So it seems like if I happened to chase in a M35A2 I would definitely get new windshield wipers. roflHowever, I do like that fact that the deuce can almost instantly be turned into a rescue vehicle. The plan is get behind the gust front of a severe storm and not close enough to a tornado to be blown over, but not everything goes according to plan; so that is to take into account. I definitely like the price that the M35 offers. So does anyone think there is anyway around the cons such as: leaky windows and foggy glass? Any other ideas on vehicles would be great. I just wanted something a little bigger than the typical chase vehicle.

Just curious what would be the difference in wind resistance between the deuce and this:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2751/4271328131_4b900ce987_z.jpg?zz=1

Thanks!!
Just put in a windshield that is one piece. You will lose the tilt out function, which is nice, but it will save leaks. Electric wipers, and a fuel fired heater can run you out of the cab. Anything is do-able, just have to think it out a tad. I know you are getting a lot of info right now, so I won't give you too much trouble, yet. :)
 

oldMan99

Member
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Polk County, Florida
Every time I see a show with the TIV it gets broken. And I am pretty sure that is 100% of the times I have seen it. The suspension, engine, trans and differentials have all failed at critical moments, (Usually at some point during the chase sidelining the crew). I know they have build 2 or maybe even 3 of them and have on at least one occasion gotten "The old one" back in service while the "New improved" one is being fixed. That thing is just way to heavy for the chassis they built it on.

A Deuce to chase storms? No way. In fact, absolutely no way. To big, to bulky, to slow, not maneuverable enough, to tall, way to venerable to roll over, no roll over protection at all, no protection from flying debris at all. As a remotely following support vehicle with S-280 in the back to haul gear, (Or a M109) maybe. It is a very old vehicle and this would be defined as a mission critical operation. After a complete and extremely thorough overhaul of everything updating systems such as the wipers, leaking windows, doors, roof and installing more comfortable seats, sound proofing, muffler, disc brakes – probably a good choice at that point – for a rear deployed support vehicle, NOT a front line chase vehicle.

I read this whole thread wondering how long until somebody mentioned the Stryker or any of the new generation MRAP vehicles. Most any of them would be my choice well before anything "They" are using now.

Remember, life is fragile, can end very quickly and unexpectedly and you only get one chance, don’t send it easily or cheaply.

Short of a Stryker or MRAP I would build my own truck from scratch.

*Custom built tube chassis with full racing style roll cage
*All seats to have 5 pt harnesses
*Tires: 395/85R20 - 46.7" Tall - 15.3” Wide
*2.5 ton axles (Only 2) with Oversun 4.9 ring/pinion, Detroit locker in the rear, air *locker in the front.
*Axles WIDENED so that outside edge of tires is at 100"
*Cummins 5.9 turbo diesel with NO computer and manual fuel shut off to kill engine.
*Dry sump sealed oil system for engine
*Heavy duty hardened automatic trans
*Suspension designed to keep the vehicle as low as possible
*Body made from 3/8 aluminum plate installed to eliminate vertical surfaces, plating to extend down to 12" above the ground.
*Windows to meet NIJ level IV (Resistant to all pistols and most rifles) and mounted to avoid vertical surfaces
*Fuel to be carried in a racing type safety cell
*Seats to be of the same type/design used in off road racing vehicles for comfort and safety
*Dual on board fire suppression systems.
*Emergency compressed breathing air, 30 minutes for each occupant.
*All occupants to wear helmets with integral microphone/speaker plugged into on board intercom/radios
*All components (Radiator, fuel tank, head lights, auxiliary lights..) to be armor protected.
*Back up camera
*EVERYTHING inside to be secured to withstand severe roll over
*15k electric winch front and rear with appropriate accessory equipment
*Dual redundant switchable/selectable electrical systems
*Emergency escape hatch on roof and floor
*Hydraulic outriggers like on a power company truck connected to a RV type automatic leveling jack system with manual override

With this rig:
*Ford water to at least 20".
*Have the speed and power to get to OR AWAY FROM whatever you wanted/needed
*Be properly protected in the event that all plans go to h@ll and you get smacked hard by a direct hit.
*Fire protection should be obvious.
*Dual redundant electrical system should be obvious.
*Protected from roll over.
*Ability to self recover from roll over and continue mission or self evacuate after (Dry sump oil closed system will not leak when inverted, fuel cell will not leak, winches to self recover)
*Protection from being rolled over and blown into a water filled ditch or lake - (Emergency breathing air – multiple escape hatches).
*Automatic jack system to be used when filming to provide a stable platform and can be used for changing tires.
*Self extricate should you become stuck.
*No engine computer to fail.
*Manual engine shut off instead of electric solenoid so that in the event of total electric failure the engine will still run to allow for evasion/escape.

Total cost? Probably under $30k, I can't see it going over $50k. More expensive than a 30 or 40 year old military surplus Deuce? Oh yes, way more. What is your life worth? Me personally I place a very high value on mine. If I am going to go well out of my way and with great deliberate purpose go into an area that the police are trying to evacuate because of dangerous weather, where the roads will likely be compromised, where rescue or assistance may well be delayed if available at all, where communications to summon help are likely to fail I am going to do it only 1 way. In a vehicle that has been explicitly designed and prepared to provide me and the crew with the absolute best chance of surviving any and all predicted and unpredicted circumstances.

I have seen way to many people maimed or dead as a result of inadequate planning/training/equipment or stupid policy set by someone hundreds or thousands of miles away. I am not about to voluntarily place myself in such a situation.

On the other hand, with the proper equipment and crew and enough training evolutions with the crew on the equipment so that responses are automatic and tested then I think it might be a blast to go and chase some storms and get up close and personal.

There is a reason people evacuate from the path of these storms and seek shelter in basements. Because they are dangerous, unpredictable and easily kill people. Fortunately, (At least as far as I know) none of the amateur idiots running around in mini vans packed with camera gear and little else have been seriously injured or killed. Unfortunately I believe it is just a matter of time until one does.

Just my 2cents worth. I hope it did not insult anyone, that was not my intention.
 

wikallen

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A deuce is not going to be easy to turn around in the middle of the road when you find yourself getting too close.
 

Darwin T

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M109a3 bad idea. almost 11' tall stock on 9.00x20s and flat on the sides. fall over like the tricycle on laughin (for you who are old enough to remember). at 55MPH stock on 9.00x20S don't guess wrong on the direction of the storm.

However, if you took a deuce (or a multi fuel 5 ton) and stripped the bed and the top of the cab and went back with hemmit tires, a custom body (to lower the profile) with lexan windows and expanded metal screens. maybe lower ground effects to keep the wind from going under, if it turns on you. lorance radar and gps from a boat. then maybe.
 

USAFSS-ColdWarrior

Chaplain
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Steel Soldiers Supporter
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Ha! I just might have to try a deuce in a hurricane. But thanks for your input! I have some things to think about now. I'm really liking the idea that it can go anywhere; a very usefull capability. A lot of observation points are not just fixed to the interstate. I've seen some tricks to make it more highway friendly like you mentioned. I will definitely be looking into this more.
EF-5:
By that last statement, I MUST reply....

W E L C O M E to the A D D I C T I O N :mrgreen::jumpin:
 

m880 unimog

Member
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england
you need a M992.

there again so do i.

if you do choose a venerable deuce,and it all goes wrong drop the rockwells off on my farm as you pass overhead-if you get time of course;-)

the good thing about using a military vehicle to pursue your interests is-pretty soon you have enough vehicles to take everyone you know along too!
 
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EF-5

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I truly am happy with all of the responses! There is a lot of good information here, and I'm taking in every bit :D. There is just one thing that I would like to address, as far as getting CLOSE to a tornado (within several hundred yards) is definitely NOT on my agenda, currently. I have seen how an EF-3 tornado can toss big rigs around like toys, mainly due to their bad aerodynamics. I understand, however, that the deuce shares those similar characteristics. Like oldMan99 said: Maybe a rear deployed support unit. The intention of this vehicle is not to get up close and personal, but to observe and gather data from a distance; much like the Vortex 2 DOW, but with a little more grit.

There will definitely be need for some modifications, such as comfort and technical appliances. I can also see how the m109 might act as a kite if subjected to severe enough winds. I know this is easier said than done, but what about the option of extended cab with a low bed profile to reduce wind drag? Would this setup up be similar to the DOW? Remember its all from a distance. For now!rofl

Thanks for everything!
 

Pooch1128

New member
We have two M35A3's that we use on wood fires, automatic transmission and power assist steering, turn arounds are a little easier and we siliconed the front widows in and both have hard tops with silicone every where. Having been in tne woods battling woods fire is enough danger for me and even though I feel safe I don't think I would want to be any where near a tornado or hurricaine in a A3.
 

davidkroberts

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west tennessee
have you thought about a m1009. the 6.2l engine gets better mileage than a gas Bronco is a 3/4 ton capacity and has hydraulic assist steering and brakes. and it cruises easily at 70mph. auction prices are about twice what a deuce is but they are more practicle for what your needing IMHO. You can also get them repaired at local garages with mostly stock parts except for some electrical components.
 

Darwin T

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don't forget the lowrance radar from a boat, just incase you can't see the tornado due to the rain. the controls are made for bad weather. you can add the chart plotter so they can see where you were before you took off. rofl i got my M109a3 to evac (with my stuff) from hurricanes and my first M35a2 to come back after said hurricanes (actually i bid low on ebay and won aua).
 

EF-5

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Yes! I actually have considered the m1009. My dad drove one in the Persian Gulf and sad they were rugged vehicles. I am considering all options at this point :D. Even if the deuce ends up not being the Tornado Observation Vehicle I am planning for, it still would be a nice piece of history, and fun to have! Especially if we keep getting winters in Georgia like we have right now. Also a little off topic it would be nice to have in your possession if a solar storm of great magnitude hits the earth in 2012-2013 as NASA predicts :jumpin:.
 

EF-5

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And Darwin T that radar sounds like something very useful. Along with software such as Digital Atmosphere it should make a good asset to chasing!!
 

Kohburn

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imo I wouldn't

at the most i would use the running gear for a custom fabbed up chaser that had bodywork closer to the ground, and an engine/transmission that would handle the 1,000,000 miles that would be put on it chasing storms all over.
 
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