stuck solenoid, yet again...

[TexAndy]

Anyone else have this much trouble with starter solenoids? Truck had a dead starter when I got it at auction with 92k mi on the odo. Put an aftermarket starter on it. 6k miles later, stuck solenoid. Pulled starter, pulled solenoid and sure enough, some burned spots on the copper disk/contactor part of the solenoid. Cleaned it up, put the solenoid back on, put starter back on truck, voila. Good as new.

Now, 7k miles later, same problem. Stuck solenoid. Turn the key and the under dash relay operates, but the starter solenoid does nothing.

I haven't had trouble starting the truck. It keeps prime, the glow plugs are working, the truck has been starting up without any hesitation. I just don't understand why this happens with so few miles between service. Is there something I can spray the copper disc contactor face with or something to keep this from happening again? Or is this just one of the joys of cucv ownership?

I'm thinking at this point I'd better keep a spare starter and jackstands in the truck, just in case.

 

[Barrman]

I have had the same issues Andy. Just be glad the solenoid is not contacting instead of sticking on.

 

[TexAndy]

I have had the same issues Andy. Just be glad the solenoid is not contacting instead of sticking on.

Good point. I'm considering a battery disconnect switch in the cab, just in case.

 

[cucvrus]

Like this? A Cole Hersee. I install them on lift gates and on trucks to prevent unauthorized use and battery drainage. Do you have your starters looked at at a starter shop? I know how to take them apart and replace parts. But when I see how they do it they hit on things I never even considered. Good Luck. Trying to help out. That is ALL. They have a lot of expensive equipment and it seems to be helpful.

 

[TexAndy]

View attachment 700152Like this? A Cole Hersee. I install them on lift gates and on trucks to prevent unauthorized use and battery drainage. Do you have your starters looked at at a starter shop? I know how to take them apart and replace parts. But when I see how they do it they hit on things I never even considered. Good Luck. Trying to help out. That is ALL. They have a lot of expensive equipment and it seems to be helpful.

I may pay a professional shop up in San Antonio to rebuild my original starter just so I have a known good spare. But this one shouldn't be having any serious issues, yet. It's only got 13k miles on it...

Yep, I like the switch idea. I actually got a battery isolator for my 923a2, just haven't installed it yet.

 

[doghead]

Where are you getting your starters?

What brand are they?

 

[TexAndy]

This one is a DBelectrical, bought off Amazon. I think it was $110 or something?

 

[Bighorn]

The stock cucv m1008 starter relay can be problematic.
Do a Doghead relay mod and be done with it.

 

[TexAndy]

The stock cucv m1008 starter relay can be problematic.
Do a Doghead relay mod and be done with it.

I did a DH relay mod. The under dash relay isn't the problem (I don't think). The coil is operating and I'm pretty sure the other two legs are passing current (lights dim a little, seatbelt buzzer changes pitch). The solenoid attached to the actual starter motor isn't moving.

 

[Bighorn]

I did a DH relay mod. The under dash relay isn't the problem (I don't think). The coil is operating and I'm pretty sure the other two legs are passing current (lights dim a little, seatbelt buzzer changes pitch). The solenoid attached to the actual starter motor isn't moving.

Okay, do me a favor and go remove and clean your battery terminal connections.
I literally just had this happen this morning.
The terminals were loose and a bit of white corrosion to boot combined with oxidized lead under the terminals.
Starter clicked and everything went dead.
Sure sign of main battery power delivery failure.
Give it a go.

 

[TexAndy]

Okay, do me a favor and go remove and clean your battery terminal connections.
I literally just had this happen this morning.
The terminals were loose and a bit of white corrosion to boot combined with oxidized lead under the terminals.
Starter clicked and everything went dead.
Sure sign of main battery power delivery failure.
Give it a go.

Will give it a try. I hope it's that simple.

When you say "the starter clicked" do you mean the starter or the under dash relay? Because with mine, the starter does not click. I get the noise from the under dash relay operating, but no sound from the starter itself. Which to me sounds like the starter solenoid is probably stuck in the open position.

 

[Bighorn]

The solenoid under the dash is sending power to the starter solenoid.
Maybe you do have a mechanical problem with the Bendix solenoid on your starter.
Or you could have a problem with the ground and positive power supply to that Bendix.
I am trying to eliminate the electrical supply first because it is easiest and most prone to problems.
If we eliminate that; by cleaning and tightening every connection in the individual and seperate circuits; then we can begin to suspect the mechanical aspects.
It is a female dog.. I know, but crawl under there and re- torque the starter hot lead as well as clean battery connections and connections to frame etc.
These are far more likely to be the problem.

 

[Bighorn]

Warning!!
Remember the big wire to your starter bendix is HOT all the time even with the key off!
Disconnect battery first.
Not assuming you didn't know that.

Look, you have replaced the starter before.
It makes sense to suspect the wiring now.

We are talking about a maybe 3 amp circuit at the key, controlling a 10 amp solenoid, controlling a 50 amp bendix, controlling a 400 amp starter motor.
Anything along that line out of spec can create havoc.
Whereas a few bearings a spring, a couple of gears and some solid copper windings reside on the other side of that.

 

[doghead]

I hate to say it but, the Chinese starters sold by DB just don't last.

OEM parts are so much better.

I'd only go Chinese if it's the last option.

 

[TexAndy]

Checked all the connections, everything was torqued down, battery terminals clean, batteries charged. No dice. Pulled starter. Going to go lift weights now... though I guess I don't have to do much after wrestling with that **** starter. I'm getting to be a pro at starter removal.

I'll pull the solenoid this evening and see what it looks like. I do have an unused spare solenoid I can try.

 

[Drock]

Disclaimer.... Electrical is Voodoo to me, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Maybe you have a bad dog head relay? Aren't these things from lawnmowers? And aren't lawnmowers 6 volt? Maybe it's the wrong voltage relay?

 

[TexAndy]

You know, one of those giant whole house air conditioning contactors might be a good overkill substitute for the DH under dash relay. Those things are meant to handle alot of current and a ton of cycles over the course of 15 or 20 years. Way more than you'd ever use it in an automotive application.

 

[TexAndy]

Well, it's not the starter. I went ahead and did the no load test with some batteries. Applied 24V to "M" terminal and the motor spun up. Ok, so far so good. Applied 12V to "S" and the bendix operated ok, good. Applied 12V to both "S" and "B" (the actual no load test) and the motor spun up and the bendix operated.

So at this point, I'm suspecting the starter relay under the dash. Hm. I hope that's the problem, anyways.

Or maybe it was the solenoid and in all the banging it around getting it off the truck, it "fixed" itself. Maybe I'll pull the solenoid anyways and take a look, while I have it off the truck.


eta: Pulled the under dash relay, tested it. With no power to coil , infinite resistance across the power terminals. With coil engaged, around 28 ohms resistance across the power terminals.

So it's not the under dash relay, either. Unless maybe that reading is a bit high and that 28 or so ohms is enough to keep the starter from getting juice? I don't know, I'm an electrical dummy, too.

 

[Bighorn]

Disclaimer.... Electrical is Voodoo to me, but even a broken clock is right twice a day. Maybe you have a bad dog head relay? Aren't these things from lawnmowers? And aren't lawnmowers 6 volt? Maybe it's the wrong voltage relay?

Yea, It cracks me up to see those relays on the shelf at CARQUEST.. on the lawnmower shelf.
And yet, still better than the stock setup.

 

[Barrman]

I went through the exact same thing last month on RED Andy. Under dash relay click, nothing under the hood. Put a meter on the purple wire at the solenoid and power was getting to it. Pull the starter, test it and all good. Put it back on and it worked. Once. Then back to under dash click and nothing at the starter. Removed all the factory under hood starter wiring and swapped in wires from another M1009. Again, it worked once. Back to the original wiring and it worked once.

It was a bad solenoid. The starter terminal was moving everytime we hooked up a wire and making contact. Then it would move away from making contact. I found a US built replacement solenoid from a place in San Antonio.