Survey...... "oil line of death 3116" (governor oil feed line)

[Mullaney]

from previous discussions..... based on location of the oil pressure switch...... by the time that switch reads low oil pressure..... your engine is already toast. Oil line of death just pumps the oil out way to fast.

Issue also is....... automatic shut off...... while saves your engine..... it likely kills person(s) on the highway behind you as your truck suddenly out of the blue in the middle lane loses all power, resulting in cars, trucks behind you eating your ass in a pile up. Driver of FMTV does not want to brake (so no brake lights show), they want/need power to safely steer it off the road but can't cause engine was auto shut down.... that is a lose lose situation.

So comes down too.... save your engine vs pile up accidents behind you that kills one or more.

.
Well thanks. At least that is a reasonable "why" for how it is coachgeo .
Wonder if there is a better place for a low oil switch?

Cynicism On -
Maybe what we do is attach an air horn on the inside back wall of the cab.
Then, when the massive oil loss situation happens, the driver will have a heart attack and never know that his motor was blown.
Cynicism Off -

On a more positive note, Regularly checking bolts and looking / feeling weird vibrations are something that CAN be overcome. Especially if you know that it is a concern. These trucks, most diesel truck in general shake themselves to death before they actually wear out.

 

[chucky]

I wouldnt be apposed to the engine shuting down at first loss of pressure ! Stuff breaks we have all broke down on the road before when you lose power get over you may have to upset someone but to do it but you can coast to the side of the road ! turn the signal on 3 blinks and im coming over ! Even the little engines have low oil pressure shut down but where ever you wanted to put it on our trucks just let the signal wire either open or close the the circut going to the fuel solenoid to shut the truck down ?

 

[Awesomeness]

from previous discussions..... based on location of the oil pressure switch...... by the time that switch reads low oil pressure..... your engine is already toast. Oil line of death just pumps the oil out way to fast.

Issue also is....... automatic shut off...... while saves your engine..... it likely kills person(s) on the highway behind you as your truck suddenly out of the blue in the middle lane loses all power, resulting in cars, trucks behind you eating your ass in a pile up. Driver of FMTV does not want to brake (so no brake lights show), they want/need power to safely steer it off the road but can't cause engine was auto shut down.... that is a lose lose situation.

So comes down too.... save your engine vs pile up accidents behind you that kills one or more.

Maybe, but if the engine is that close to death already anyways is it really any different? In another 20 seconds the engine will die because of lack of oil, and you'll be in the exact same boat. I don't really buy it.

But if you do believe that, hook it to a big red "tach shift light" on your dash. That will also overcome the problem that if it was hooked to a kill switch you'd have to put in an ability to let the engine build oil pressure before the system was armed.

 

[Floridianson]

I decided to go with a kit that was offered with correct type hose / fittings and not worried a bit about it working fine. Also the kit I bought does not will not put a kink in the line because of the fittings. If you feel like it must be the steel line then tighten the governor side tight first then check / adjust the engine side fitting so there is the correct line up of the mating surfaces. Be careful when you tighten down the engine fitting to block as it does not move after adjustment. As for type of correct hose the one I have will carry plenty of oil to lube the governor and not worried a bit about it. Any of you ever own a Deuce and did you worry about the rubber oil line that fed the IP. Did you worry enough to replace it or just not even know it was there. High Pressure Oil Line, Fuel Governor, Upgrade Kit | Grigsby Truck Company | Surplus Military Trucks | Off-Road Vehicles (grigsbytrucks.com)

 

[coachgeo]

.... In another 20 seconds the engine will die because of lack of oil, ...

Yep that is why alarm was suggested over auto kill switch. 20 seconds gives you time to drive to side of road and shut down. Using your below idea also; in addition maybe wire it to the air system buzzer was the suggestions made. This makes safer for folk in traffic behind the truck... yet you may can still get lucky and be able to save the engine by making it to safe place stop in 15 seconds.

.... hook it to a big red "tach shift light" on your dash. That will also overcome the problem that if it was hooked to a kill switch you'd have to put in an ability to let the engine build oil pressure before the system was armed.

 

[Floridianson]

That engine side fitting is adjustable and correct angle can be had to mate to the steel line correctly. This way the steel line is not being put under a strain to start with. Then maybe under strain and steel line rusting from the out side well yea it is going to fail. Keep paint on it and no strain and pay attention once you have correct angle and you go to tighten down the engine side fitting to block do not let it move or it will change the angle. Maybe they are failing because someone does not know how to install the engine fitting to steel line correctly. The fitting screws into the block and once you have the correct angle you tighten the jam nut and that is what locks it in place and where you set the angle to match the line. Double check line up of steel line to block fitting before you tighten the steel line to block fitting that the angle has not changed. To much over thinking will drive you crazy.

 

[Third From Texas]

from previous discussions..... based on location of the oil pressure switch...... by the time that switch reads low oil pressure..... your engine is already toast. Oil line of death just pumps the oil out way to fast.

Issue also is....... automatic shut off...... while saves your engine..... it likely kills person(s) on the highway behind you as your truck suddenly out of the blue in the middle lane loses all power, resulting in cars, trucks behind you eating your ass in a pile up. Driver of FMTV does not want to brake (so no brake lights show), they want/need power to safely steer it off the road but can't cause engine was auto shut down.... that is a lose lose situation.

So comes down too.... save your engine vs pile up accidents behind you that kills one or more.

That's why I added the concept of an audio and visual alert prior to the shutdown, but I do get the concern. You would want the alarms to proceed the shutdown. Hell, you may want a shutdown override as mentioned upthread just to buy time in a high traffic situation an well. Safety before blown engine of course.

While certainly not something that I would care to pursue, I suspect that there is could be a way to implement such a feature safely (especially on a truck that operates off road as much as not).

But in the end with regards to a fix, as I said replace the oil line if it is something that concerns you. I still think that there are other more common or just-as-common failure points (nut under the forward inspection plate, compressor bracket, etc) but I could be wrong. And there are folks who have pointed out that flex lines come with some of it's own potential failures.

Best bet is to get an A1R with a C7 just to be safe.

ymmv

 

[frank8003]

even for 76 bucks I would have put one on there.

High Pressure Oil Line, Fuel Governor, Upgrade Kit - Grigsby Truck Company | Surplus Military Trucks | Off-Road Vehicles

Fuel governor high pressure oil line failure mitigation kit

www.grigsbytrucks.com

3114 & 3116 DIESEL TRUCK ENGINES Caterpillar

ch-part.com

A reoccurring problem in MTV/LMTV (FMTV) trucks with the Caterpillar 3116 engine is the failure of the High Pressure Oil line that supplies oil to the fuel governor. The rigid stock line seems to not be able to handle the stress of vibration, and forms a crack at the base of the line-nut, where it enters the governor. Once the leak forms, the engine can quickly be drained of oil, resulting in catastrophic engine failure. This kit includes an improved high pressure oil vessel, made from high-temp/high-pressure hose, and an adapter to use where the new hose connects to the engine head.

 

[Floridianson]

Yea Frank I was willing to try there line. Not only does the angle of the engine fitting need to be right but the mating edges of the engine fitting and steel line must be parallel. I know bad picture but someone might get the point. If not parallel it could put a strain on the steel line. To me if the engine fitting angle is right but the two ends are not parallel then the line was not bent correct from the factory . I eat 75 bucks worth of cookies a month so 75 bucks for there line to me was a good deal. When I eat the cookies they are gone but the line will be on the truck for a while. My granddaughter likes cup cakes. Hope I can convert her to cookies in the years to come.

 

[Mullaney]

Yea Frank I was willing to try there line. Not only does the angle of the engine fitting need to be right but the mating edges of the engine fitting and steel line must be parallel. I know bad picture but someone might get the point. If not parallel it could put a strain on the steel line. To me if the engine fitting angle is right but the two ends are not parallel then the line was not bent correct from the factory or bad mandrel / jig set up. I eat 75 bucks worth of cookies a month so 75 bucks for there line to me was a good deal. When I eat the cookies they are gone but the line will be on the truck for a while. My granddaughter like cup cakes. Hope I can convert her to cookies in the years to come.

.
Looks like somebody was definitely having a good time
Grandpa eats a cookie, Grandaughter eats a cupcake

- Rinse, Lather, Repeat! -

 

[Ronmar]

Perhaps more effective would be a low oil level sw in the sump wall to tell you the pan is low before the pump looses suction.



Pretty common low cost item that works great on pressure washers and other power equipment.

would turn something like this into a non event…

 

[Awesomeness]

I'm still going by the logic that it's simply the age of the line that is the problem. It's not that it's an "oil line of death", or bad design, because obviously they lasted the first 25 years of the truck. This is just a critical oil-pumping point, and any line here that fails will pump out all the oil and kill the engine. Had they put flexible lines on this point, by now they would be rotted and having the same problem, and everyone would be complaining "Oh that flexible oil line of death! I'm going to a metal line, because everyone knows steel lines are better...".

So that's the rub. If you can just reverse the logic (flexible vs steel, steel vs flexible) and the answer is the same, there never actually was a problem to begin with. It's just old, and 25 year old stuff (or stuff with bad vibration problems) fails.

 

[Ronmar]

The problem wasn't that it was a steel line, there are other steel and oil hard-lines on the truck and they don’t seem to break. these lines should last forever, especially considering these trucks don’t have hundreds of thousands of miles on them… The problem was the application. All those other lines are supported on both ends(no real overhung weight). Take a ruler and put it on a desk or workbench protruding over the edge like a diving board and clamp it down. Now start twanging the end sticking over the edge. Eventually it will fatigue and break at it’s pivot point at the bench edge(Or someone will pop you upside the head for making that annoying noise). You know kinda like all the pics of fractured lines I have seen broken right where they are welded to the fitting boss.

Now of course it takes energy applied to start a vibration, and this engine is used on a lot of trucks with millions upon millions of miles total and counting with no real oil line-o-death issue, but this line seems to be succeptible to a vibration or running condition in our trucks that perhaps isn’t readily apparent to an operator as being potentially damaging…

in many cases the description of the event was ”I was tooling down the road, minding my own buisness when suddenly the oil light came on”. Now telling someone to fix their vibration issues is all well and good, but how do you fix an issue you cannot feel? It could also be an issue/vibration from the engine itself that you cannot feel, say perhaps from the crank driven fan not used by the other 3116’s in civilian use…

Since it is susceptible to something these trucks sometimes produce, you can put in a flex line, that will eventually need to be replaced(common fittings and parts available), But will survive the environment, or you can put in another hardline, but in an LMTV you should remove the overhung issue, simply by attaching a restraint to the end of the overhung part(tip of diving board) And turning it into a tripod(triangles are our friends).

from the little I have seen inside this type governor, I do not get the impression that they are pressure lubricated. They appear to be splash lubed with a continuous oil feed to the housing providing flow and cooling...

 

[Ronmar]

Along the lines of an oil level sensor, up to 96 ford mustangs used them, and a lot of GM/chevy’s use them. The fords are $60-100 bucks and the GM’s are in the $20 range. I don’t recall the ford thread spec, but the GM’s use a M20X1.5 thread. They are installed in the side of the pan at a height just where the main pan drops off into the lower sump.

So if you could weld, perhaps $40 in parts and some attitude and you could wire it into the oil pressure circuit to give you an idiot light before the oil pressure drops below 15 PSI… Since there are a few other failures, besides the “oil line-o death” that can cause you to loose oil, it might not be a bad idea…

 

[coachgeo]

... They are installed in the side of the pan at a height just where the main pan drops off into the lower sump.

… Since there are a few other failures, besides the “oil line-o death” that can cause you to loose oil, it might not be a bad idea…

you got an idea on where one would consider mounting on the pan... taking into account that if your using it as an Overland/Adventure truck that might see angles which could throw false buzz/light warnings of "low oil level" if the location of sensor is not well thought out.

 

[Floridianson]

did you perchance eyeball to see if each leg of the U lined up squarely with their matching union? Did one or the other leg need to be slightly forced into alignment to install the union nuts?

did you perchance eyeball to see if each leg of the U lined up squarely with their matching union? Did one or the other leg need to be slightly forced into alignment to install the union nuts?

That is my thought about the tension put on it on install. .02 just replace the old one with new steel or flex and not worry about it for another 30 years.

 

[Ronmar]

you got an idea on where one would consider mounting on the pan... taking into account that if your using it as an Overland/Adventure truck that might see angles which could throw false buzz/light warnings of "low oil level" if the location of sensor is not well thought out.

A false alarm is not such a big deal especially if I know I am not level. They are typically placed out over the deep part of the pan sump, at about the height of the raised bottom. This pan doesn’t have a very deep sump, but if my measurments are correct the pan is normally nearly full, so if it were placed say an inch above the main bottom where it drops off into the sump, it will have 5 or so inches of oil over it. The GM sensor also protrudes into the sump 5 or so inches, so I think you would probably have to roll the truck on its side to trip the alarm

 

[Floridianson]

Also I like the nice gentle curve to this line. The one in the video I saw or the flex line the goes parallel to the block has to much bend it it for my liking.

 

[Ronmar]

Also I like the nice gentle curve to this line. The one in the video I saw or the flex line the goes parallel to the block has to much bend it it for my liking.

Even for that type line, which is a little more forgiving of bend radius, it is still closing in on the minimum bend radius. Most of the teflon ones I see being installed are well under the min bend radius. 2” radius means it has to go around the outside of a 4” piece of pipe… thats why I specced a 9” line for mine…

 

[frank8003]

I don't have a cat 3116, I a multifuel guy, but all in this thread is good learning stuff.