Tank Driving Business?

[SmzZip865]

Hello everyone!

Ross "Bodhi" Ogle here.

I'm a New Poster here and new to the forums.

A little history on me. Pigeon Forge, TN native, bachelor and masters in engineering from UT. Currently, I am an owner of a Zipline company in the Smoky Mountains area. I run this business with a fleet of 6 deuce and a halfs assorted make and models from 1969 to two 1993 M35A3s. We use them as passenger transport vessels to and from the top of the mountain and have had great success with both the trucks and the ziplining as it is one of the faster growing tourist activities.

What I am posting for is essentially asking a community consensus on the idea of opening a tank driving/riding business. Why aren't there more of these establishments? I understand that there are several companies operating in Europe with this business plan and one company in Minnesota doing this right now that to my understanding used to operate in Texas. I'm still doing alot of research in regards to potential ideas and plans, and would love to have community input as to the pros and cons of such an establishment. I can already understand the maintenance issues associated with maintaining a fleet of MVs. Generally I have one truck down for general maintenance and upkeep any given week of the year, but when dealing with people's lives its not a time to be cheap or cut corners. From other forum posts, heavy armor is going to be a whole new level of maintenance. I'm green to the potential maintenance costs armor would intail and would greatly appreciate insight as to such. Insight as to why there is only one tank driving business in the USA would be helpful too. I do not know how close this community is, and it is not my intention to step on any toes. I just had the thought that driving a tank would be awesome and people would pay to ride in one, and people would pay big to sit in the driver seat. Any and all thoughts and insight would be great and appreciated. Thanking ya'll in advance

Bodhi

P.S. as a gift to Steel Soldiers members if any of you guys read this posting, mention it and the codeword "BodhiSS865" if and when you come to zipline with us and I'll give yall a special discount. www.smokymountainziplines.com

 

[B3.3T]

In the US it is a problem having the population density to support it as in Europe. If located near enough to a population center to get business, then overhead costs are high. Out in the cheap, not enough people. Another big problem is insurance is much higher than Europe for such venture. We sue for chewing gum, here. Then there is the armor. The only thing plentiful, and cheap enough to be realistic are British 432s and Abbot, which are not really tanks. So, you need property, vehicles, service and retrieval equipment, insurance, advertising, trained people....by the time you do all the math, it really gets expensive. Armor, if abused, can be very expensive to maintain.

 

[wgtactical]

Tanks are not exactly built for comfort either and it's pretty easy to get hurt inside one. Abrupt turns or stops can leave someone with a faceplant into the hard interior of one of these machines. Plus everything B3.3T said

 

[AceHigh]

I am betting your biggest problem will be insurance. Best of luck, hope you can get it going.

Last time I was in your town I saw your deuces running all over- I loved it!

 

[commandojeff]

Might as well make them live while you're at it. What's the fun of driving a tank if you're buddy isn't sending some rounds down range? . Okay well driving tanks is fun either way... $$$$$$$$$$

 

[SmzZip865]

Bodhi here again.
Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate all of it and look forward to more input.

Population wise I think it would work. My region receives approximately 13 million people a year being one of the primary gateways into the Great Smoky Mountains National Park so there would be no shortage as to the customer basis. As for ticket price I haven't looked into an actual ticket cost but as with a lot of things demand, supply, and quality aspects all come to mind. . . As is I have about 15 acres free of ziplines out of 44 that are more or less open field and rolling hills which I feel may be enough to offer a small adventure across a hilly obstacle course or so.
Insurance wise, we carry a pretty hefty insurance policy with the ziplines so that aspect and a provider should be surmountable. With our main ticket for zipping being a $59.95 9 zipline hour and a half canopy tour. We ride 100 to 200 people seven days a week Memorial Day to Labor Day at that ticket price or higher.
This all has me thinking it very well may be doable. . . The best way to do it is what I'm not sure about. Actual tanks may not be feasible. I'm uncertain as to the feasibility and cost effectiveness of an MBT although I'd love to have one. Even just as a yard ornament and brochure filler material. I've emailed mortar investments on T-55 and T-72 considerations but haven't received a reply yet, and I understand that the T-72s are especially hard to fit into. This has me trying to look stateside for vehicles. I have the import jitters and after looking through the forums its not entirely all unfounded. Any advice as to the best route for import, importers, companies, processes. etc again would be highly appreciated. A friend mentioned permanent loan of military hardware from our government based on non profit museum classification. I'm not familiar with how to go about that, and whether or not the charging for tank rides would fly with the whole non profit issue. . . I have a decent collection of deuces and three in reserve that just anybody can come up and look at along with a few military trailers, but I don't really think that would fly as a museum. I just don't know to be honest.
Any thoughts on the scorpion or abbotts as "tanks"? Better turreted vehicles out there for this? With the scorpion I understand due to the shift on the fly"rides", maybe not necessarily "drives", would be the way to go. A sheridan would be perfect if I could find one, and I'm looking for that size range preferrably. M24 Chaffee, M41 Walker Bulldog? transport wise the scorpion is looking better and better, especially if I'm looking at import because I can fit one safely in a container. I'd really love to get my hands on an M109 Paladin, but I don't think those are for the public yet, plus they're a self propelled howitzer, not a real tank.
I'm thinking pads and four point seat belts interior wise on whatever vehicle, an offroad adventure with a driver, possibly even with a venture up the zipline mountain on another 20 acre stretch of the property. . . Who wouldn't want to zip over an armored turreted vehicle, possibly shooting water or air at zipliners? Give the zipliners water or paint balloons and we're really onto something. . . 15 minute or 30 minute adventure. . . Prices??? You guys are the experienced ones. I'm just researching right now and hoping to bring tank rides to the masses as they should be haha. I would've worked my butt off as a kid to get to take a ride in a tank when I was younger and I still think that would hold true to today's youth.

Thanks again Bodhi

 

[SmzZip865]

And thank you for noticing AceHigh. We try and make our presence known whenever we can. Nothing better than when we roll the deuces in convoy to the gas station. You'll have to swing in and see us next time you're in town. Its always great to meet people on"line" haha har har zipline humor sorry.

 

[erixun]

I am sure you know about it- but others may not- you mean a business like this Drive a Tank | Tank Driving & Car Crush Adventure in Kasota Minnesota ?

 

[B3.3T]

Forget about a Sheridan. There are only one or two in private hands and no parts. A Chafee? $300K. M41, $200K. A Scorpion is $80-90K and difficult for any larger or tall person to enter and drive. Their gearbox can be easily abused and not cheap to repair. Parts are available but can be expensive. If importing makes you nervous, give up the whole idea because even if you find decent models here, you ARE going to have to import your own parts or pay stupid prices for someone to do it for you. T-55 and T-72 are not very fun to drive at all, IMHO.

 

[BlondeGuy]

You've got a great market for something like that. I would think most participants would want to be gunners.

One idea to try that will big you a lot of bang for the buck is to set up a zombie town. Deck out one of the Dueces with automatic paintball guns, like a gun truck. Load it up with passenger on the gun and drive through a course that has zombie dummies along the way and let the kiddies cut loose on them.

The visitors to east Tennessee would eat that up. We usually vacation there twice a year and will swing by on our next trip.

 

[commandojeff]

What if you had a setup to where you had live guns on the tank. Then have your personnel driving the tank and commanding it. That way you can always aim the tank in the right direction so that the gunners have to shoot into certain places to make it safe. Or have a commander aiming the main gun and have the participant load it and fire it? I'm just looking at it in a way to make it safer for insurance purposes. Just throwing out ideas for you...

 

[wreckerman893]

I was in an armor unit in Korea. I watched those poor bastages busting track in the motor pool (on the M1 Abrams).....it is not a job for the faint of heart or weak of muscle.

If you sling a track it is going to be in the worst possible place to repair it. Tank track is not light for obvious reasons. You need a lot of specialized tools to work on tanks.

Fuel is also a big expense.....most tanks suck it down almost as fast as you can pump it in......the Abrams gets 2 gallons to the mile......the bigger the tank the bigger the appetite for fuel. Even if you buy bulk off road fuel they are going to cost a lot to operate.

You have to have a way to recover what ever you end up with if it breaks down out in the field which means investing in a HEAVY tow bar or an armored recovery vehicle which will eat your lunch. A D-7 dozer would work in a pinch but you either have to own one or have someone with one on hot standby to recover a vehicle if needed.

Another issue with tanks is that they are built for a small crew......the driver is in the front position, the tank commander is up in the Tank Commanders hatch. Everyone else is inside (gunner/loader). This leaves no place for a passenger except cooped up inside where you can't see anything.....no fun there.

There are some armored personnel carriers that had a big hatch (morter tracks) in back that might fill the bill since folks could stand up and see out but then you have the safety issue as mentioned before. I have seen guys in M113's plant their faces on hatch covers when they hit something solid. Very few of these are in private hands.

Before they got so security crazy out at Anniston Army Depot they would take people for rides on M1's that had the turret removed....they had seats that fit in the tank and everyone was strapped in. They would take them on the same course where they road test them after they rebuild them.

My guess is that by the time you bought the equipment, laid out the course, paid full time mechanics to maintain them plus trustworthy drivers and bought insurance the cost of a ride would be out of reach of most folks.

That being said I paid 800 bucks for me and my son to fly in a B-17 so you never know.

 

[eddiec]

I would call Drive a Tank and just start asking questions, let him know your intentions. Bought a wrecker from them when they had first started. Great guy. And he usually has one for sale too. He will be able to explain the ins and outs better than we will, since we can only speculate. Live fire would be cool in a tank yes, but really consider the responsibility if a round goes off range and kills someone. If people can sue mc donalds for getting fat from overeating, u could really be in for a world of hurt.
But just give him a call. He is the one person here with ALL the details. Good luck

 

[eddiec]

I would call Drive a Tank and just start asking questions, let him know your intentions. Bought a wrecker from them when they had first started. Great guy. And he usually has one for sale too. He will be able to explain the ins and outs better than we will, since we can only speculate. Live fire would be cool in a tank yes, but really consider the responsibility if a round goes off range and kills someone. If people can sue mc donalds for getting fat from overeating, u could really be in for a world of hurt.
But just give him a call. He is the one person here with ALL the details. Good luck

 

[rossM4]

Awwwwww man........ My good buddy and his lady just got married in the smokies and we had a pretty big group go to the zip lines. I wish I would have known. I did see your deuce cruising the strip in gatlinburgh and I will say that truck in that traffic does not look fun. I liked your zip lines and your truck looks great.

 

[SmzZip865]

Hey guys thanks for all the info and advice.

I liked the zombie idea and I believe I'll take EddieC's advice and call the Drive a Tank guys tomorrow when we get through the weekend. . . And Like I said before all you guys are welcome to come by the zipline anytime you're in town. I'm restructuring the zipline's budget now to see just what we could afford and when.
The paintball and deuces would work well. I have the equipment and several good contacts in the paintball and airsoft scene. Standing would probably be out (stupid insurance haha) but seating should be possible especially if I could find center rack seating for a couple of the deuces.
Back on the tank side of things, I've got access to two trackhoes and a case 1050 dozer so retrieving a light tank and obstacle course construction are going to be doable. I would like some networking on the import connection if any body has any good ones or friends.
Also anybody got a scorpion stateside they may be willing to part with? Barring the availability of a couple of abbotts, haven't found one stateside for sale yet, I've got a lead on a scorpion or two here and I'm curious as to the room in the turrets and whether I could fit tourists in their comfortably with sufficient padding.
Also how hard would it be to aftermarket a chassis with some powerplants that may be more part and maintenance friendly. I have a heavy equipment and diesel mechanic on my payroll. He's got dozer and trackhoe experience, but unfortunately he doesn't have tank experience, YET. . . muahahaha

 

[Stalwart]

As stated earlier, Scorpion tanks are very tight, and were crewed with people at about 5'7" maximum. I'm 6'2" and I cannot run buttoned up. As also stated above, the transmission has to be treated nicely, they cost $120,000 (brand new transmission) a few years back. BTW a Scorpion IS a tank!

 

[ntxcop]

Bodhi,

I hope you keep us posted on the new venture. It sounds like a blast! No pun intended.... well, maybe a little

If/when you get the business up and running, I'll bring the family up from Texas and give you some business!

Good Luck

 

[AnonymousOne]

I would suggest you start off easy with drive a deuce or 5 ton program. Create some off road challenges for the drivers to get around and over, forwards and backwards .. shortest time wins... since you got an inventory your start up costs would be low and your profit high.

People ask to drive my deuce all the time and I refuse to let them drive it unless it is an open flat parking lot because I can't afford to fix my truck or someone else car they crashed.

Now if you offered me someone else truck to drive over cars and through mud holes .. I would be happy to pay all the money $$ for that..



($100 Donation to Steelsoldiers in my name if that idea turns a profit - LOL)

 

[B3.3T]

I would suggest you start off easy with drive a deuce or 5 ton program. Create some off road challenges for the drivers to get around and over, forwards and backwards .. shortest time wins... since you got an inventory your start up costs would be low and your profit high.

People ask to drive my deuce all the time and I refuse to let them drive it unless it is an open flat parking lot because I can't afford to fix my truck or someone else car they crashed.

Now if you offered me someone else truck to drive over cars and through mud holes .. I would be happy to pay all the money $$ for that..



($100 Donation to Steelsoldiers in my name if that idea turns a profit - LOL)

That actually sounds like a really smart idea. Once you grow it, you can add other "toys".

One vehicle to consider if you have an off-road course to drive: Take something like an ole pickup and reverse the steering; turn right to go left, etc. One place in UK hand a Land Rover Series III setup this way and it was a blast to try out. And a blast to watch others...