tatra 813 new owner

[cranetruck]

I think it's a matter of actually needing those vehicles, remember Russia moved entire factories away from the front during WW2...

The US has a different mission. Even the 5-ton trucks are air droppable.

Size is one thing, I'm more interested in the details (see previous posts) and the dual engine setup is worth checking out, the Swedish SEP, by Hagglunds has a dual diesel setup too...
Weight to horsepower ratio ain't that great for the Tatra, IMHO.

Tatra: 124 lb/hp
M35 deuce: 86
M813 5-ton: 84
m656/xm757 8x8: 78

That makes the light weight xm757 a "sports" vintage MV, in comparison.

 

[stephenfeldmeier]

I totally agree there,the Russians had their backs against the wall, but can you imagine what those trucks would be like today if we put our engines and transmissions on that chassis and needless to say what improvement would be on the chassis over the years, if only we took that design at the end of WWII, what a missed opportunity.

 

[cranetruck]

....., if only we took that design at the end of WWII, what a missed opportunity.

Anybody care to elaborate on this "design" and why it is better, often making something different doesn't necessarily make it better....

 

[tatra813]

So, as far as I've understood you, to be eligable to register that truck as a farm tractor, you must have your own farm, right? If you don't have a farm, you don't have possibility to register farm tractor.

Today I had a talk with an insurance agent about "a collector specialty vehicle". That is not applicable to me and my situation at all. There are lot's of different restrictions, for example like millege limitations, not more than 100 miles/year, and trip range not more 20 miles. No, this is not my case absolutely.

Every state in the U.S. is a little different with the restrictions but you are pretty close.If you need it for more than that you will need commercial insurance it sounds like cranetruck has a awsome price for his duece policy (who are you insuring that through). I used to have a Freightliner semi (just for fun) and the insurance and registration was a nightmare of costs even though I didnt haul much. I finaly figured the best way to do it is to register it as a motorhome (usually if it has a sink and a toilet its eligible) you could add a makeshift setup. any way this made insurance and especially registering it much cheaper.Registering by weight gets really expensive!
I usually use my rigs off road so the milage restrictions arnt a problem for me.

If you are truly using it for commercial use, plan on spending a lot of money for insurance, unless cranetrucks contact can hook you up.

 

[tatra813]

....., if only we took that design at the end of WWII, what a missed opportunity.

Anybody care to elaborate on this "design" and why it is better, often making something different doesn't necessarily make it better....

I agree on the engine lacking a bit, but it is really old technology. As far as the suspention setup, and all the factory setup offroad ability, I still dont think there is much out there now which is 30 years later that is better or in most cases equal. I dont know of another independant suspention truck out there with this capacity and this really makes a huge difference in the ride. I used to have a duece and took it offroad alot in some grarly areas and it doesnt even compare to the tatra as far as offroad ability or ride. Also the duece really lacks by not having lockers on the axles, I think that is the biggest drawback. Dont get me wrong I like dueces and 5 tons and 10 tons trucks but I have riden in all of them and the ride at least offroad doesnt compare.

Now Osh Kosh is coming out with some nice very capable trucks they may have something better but I havnt seen it yet.

The newer tatras 815 and the 816 are very similar in the chassis design. India just adopted the 816 for its military and the Blm in America bought a bunch and said they couldnt find a domestic truck that compared.
Please dont get me wrong Im not bashing American trucks, I love every and all trucks I dont care where it was made, but Ive had a lot of them and finaly ended up with the Tatras because they blow my mind compared to anything else I have owned or seen.
You can beef up most truck with aftermarket accesories to come close, but the Tatra is like that all STOCK from the factory.
anyway just my opinion.
The newer Tatras have late model diesels and perform a lot better, including some having automatic transmissions.

Either way I think both truck do terrible on the road and perform way better offroad which is what they are made for.

I also love the stock 50,000lb winch that feed out the front or the back!!

You definitily wont see a helicopter dropping of a Tatra anywhere!! These things are heavy.

 

[cranetruck]

Check out the m656/xm757 when you get a chance, they were built in the late 60's and the designers appear to have corrected most, if not all the drawbacks found in the M35/M54 series trucks, very capable off road including swimming, just not the capacity of the Tatras.

 

[tatra813]

Check out the m656/xm757 when you get a chance, they were built in the late 60's and the designers appear to have corrected most, if not all the drawbacks found in the M35/M54 series trucks, very capable off road including swimming, just not the capacity of the Tatras.

I will take a look, I love seeing all the different ways these truck manafacturers design things, especially the unusual designs are most interesting to me.

Have you seen that screw driven Zil ?Wow now thats a idea, at least for snow.

Is there a forum for the m656/xm757 on steel soldiers. I always like to try add other good ideas to my trucks if possible.


Just out of curiousity not to get too far off subject, how capable are most military amphibious trucks in other than calm water?

 

[cranetruck]

For the m656/xm757, do a search, the xm757 in particular, lots of posts here (mostly by yours truly, trying to make it more popular so that more of them can be saved from the scrapper).

The screw is interesting, I was bulding a model once a long time ago (about 1961) with screws, never finished it because I couldn't make the screws with the tools available....

 

[tatra813]

That would be neat to build, I wonder if you could use a huge auger of some sort. They might have too much bite.

 

[stephenfeldmeier]

....., if only we took that design at the end of WWII, what a missed opportunity.

Anybody care to elaborate on this "design" and why it is better, often making something different doesn't necessarily make it better....

As far as 2.5 tons, 5 tons and 10 ton trucks, according to a GAO report I read a couple of years ago, we the USA, our trucks were rated 14th out of all the countries that make their own military vehicles. Can you even name 14 countries that make military vehicles. I can't I only come up with 9 so which tells me that we are damn near last in this category. Now I like my M211, I'll never part with it because of what it stands for, It's part of the history of the greatest military the world has ever seen. It does everything I need it to do, plus more as it will out drive my driving skills. So do I need anything more? No. I"m perfectly happy for what I have. Is there better rated trucks out there? Yes at least 14 different models. Again, it's more than enough truck for what I need.

 

[RomanK]

Can you even name 14 countries that make military vehicles.

Enjoy


1) East Germany
2) Chehoslovakia
3) Russia
4) Ukraine
5) Belarus
6) Yogoslavia
7) Poland
8 ) Romania
9) China
10 ) Hungary

1) Italy
2) West Germany
3) Japan
4) France
5) South Korea
6) England
7) Sweden
8 ) South Africa
9) Australia
10) USA/Canada
11) Israel
12) Austria
13) Denmark
14) Switzerland
15) Holland

 

[TnD]

Can you even name 14 countries that make military vehicles.

Enjoy


1) East Germany
2) Chehoslovakia
3) Russia
4) Ukraine
5) Belarus
6) Yogoslavia
7) Poland
8 ) Romania
9) China
10 ) Hungary

1) Italy
2) West Germany
3) Japan
4) France
5) South Korea
6) England
7) Sweden
8 ) South Africa
9) Australia
10) USA/Canada
11) Israel
12) Austria
13) Denmark
14) Switzerland
15) Holland

Sorry but I have to point out to you that #10 on your list is two different countries. Canada has a long history of making military vehicles, planes and ships. We are neighbors and allies of the US but definitely have our own national identity.

 

[Goatwerks]

Weight to horsepower ratio ain't that great for the Tatra, IMHO.

Tatra: 124 lb/hp
M35 deuce: 86
M813 5-ton: 84
m656/xm757 8x8: 78

That makes the light weight xm757 a "sports" vintage MV, in comparison.

You have to see a Tatra in use to fully appreciate its pulling power, the 815 can pull 6 Ural tanks behind it for long distances

 

[vtunimog]

The new Oshkosh prototype is basically a Tatra 815 as reverse engineered in many ways by Oshkosh. For several years there was a strong competition between Terex (parent of Tatra AS at that time) and Oshkosh for the LMMV (?) Marine 20 ton truck contract (something like 1.5 billion). There was speculation that Terex purchased Tatra just for their ability to produce a truck that met the needs of the USMC (and beyond). They shipped something like 10 815's and later 816 models to the USA for rebadging under ATC (American Truck Co.). The trucks were to be built from Tatra rolling stock somewhere in North Carolina. They had an Allison coupled with either a CAT diesel of about 400-550 hp or a Detroit/MTU of about 580hp. In the initial rounds the trucks killed the competition. Then suddenly Oshkosh pulled out some interesting designs. What is really interesting is that previous management had given Oshkosh 4 815 S1 8x8's back in the mid to late 90's. They apparently used quite a bit of them in their design. That is at least the scuttlebutt in the heavy off road truck circles. I think Oshkosh makes a hell of a truck but it seems that their political lobby is pretty strong. Anyone else steps up to the plate and they get clobbered by Oshkosh. Part of the problem we lag behind some of the other manufacturers (not countries but manufacturers as many companies will make trucks for multiple countries) is mostly due to our manufacturers having a strangle hold on procurement vis a vis the lobby and political pressure they can exert. I look at the Stewart-Stevenson FMTV - A1 trucks and they look to me remarkably like a MAN or Iveco(Magirius). The latest Oshkosh smells like a Tatra to me, I cant recall the model but GM has a proposal with General Dynamics to build a truck that looks remarkably like a Swiss Bucher Duro (which I think GD owns).
As for Tatras - now that it is owned by Blue River SRO (headed by a Texan I think) it seems they want to stop dissecting the company and fianlly get back to what they know, building trucks. The unfortunate thing about the Tatras is that the 813's are getting scarce - the rebuildables have been snatched for off-road enthusiasts (many go to the big rallies - like Berlin to Breslau and the Euro-Truck Challenge) what is left is ratty or on the contrary quite pristine and pricey. When I first started importing Unimogs back about 10 or so years ago the Tatras were on the market at about 900 USD each. No one wanted them and many were cut for scrap at the time. East Germany had the best examples. I recall stories of them hauling trucks with less than a thousand miles off to scrap yards. Now prices are ten, sometimes 15 times that if you are lucky. The later models , 815 etc are incredible, they are the 813 and everything it is not. But an average price for a clean model of nearly $90K landed puts them outside the realm of possiblity.

 

[cranetruck]

The new Oshkosh prototype is basically a Tatra 815 as reverse engineered in many ways by Oshkosh. ......

..... For I look at the Stewart-Stevenson FMTV - A1 trucks and they look to me remarkably like a MAN or Iveco(Magirius). .

Can you provide some specific examples of this, please.

I believe parts for the S&S FMTVs are built in Europe, so that's no big secret..

IMHO, it would be very difficult to build a truck that excells in all areas, just size will accomplish a lot, but it will have shortcomings in other areas.
Hauling a number of tanks is great, but can it be air dropped or can it swim?
There are way too many factors to consider and I wouldn't brag about the FMTVs.

 

[tatra813]

different vehicles are designed for different things, the idea is to find one that excells at the majority of tasks!! thats a Tatra.

 

[cranetruck]

different vehicles are designed for different things, the idea is to find one that excells at the majority of tasks!! thats a Tatra.

Hmmm....

1) Speed:No
2) Side slope ability: No
3) Angle of approach: No
4) Swim ability : No
5) Fording abiltiy: No
6) Fuel economy: No
Turning raduis: No
9) Air droppable: No
10) Ability to traverse logging trails: No
11) Serviceability: No
12) Removable top: No
13) Driving in/on snow: No
14) Operating ease: No
15)

I'm guilty of thinking that my own '69 8x8 is a little better engineered than most (I like to look at the details, only a few of which have been posted about the Tatra so far), but it still is not the ideal vehicle, only yesterday I was moving stuff around my yard with the deuce and its crane and had to park it sideways on the down slopes against some trees and turn around in some tight spots, all the time thinking that the 757 would have been too big for this job (had it had the crane mounted on it). The Tatra would have been a ridiculous choice for this....

The Tatra is big and to me, it's a cross country line hauler, possibly second to none.

Question: What does the fuel level sending unit look like on the Tatra, how is it designed? More details, please.
The perfect fuel level sending unit should be able to compensate for non-level conditions. I had a problem with that on the deuce, operating on the slopes yesterday...need to do something about that....

 

[tatra813]

I think you are taking the comparisons too personal, Im not really interested in proving who has a better truck for me it really takes the fun out of talking about trucks. I like all big trucks yours and mine and others especially trucks from Europe and unusual trucks. If you want to think your truck is better more power to you. Ide prefer to just talk about trucks individualy than compare at this point.

As far as the fuel sending unit mine currently doesnt work, Im sure it is just a basic setup I just make sure the tanks are topped of before going anywhere and if it is a long trip with no stations Ill bring a couple extra cans. I just pop off the cap and look inside to see how much fuel is in there. I think the range is about 600 miles on the tanks. Fuel milage isnt great as you know but for what I use it for it doesnt matter.

Buy the way a lot of the things you are claiming the Tatra performs poorly at is not entirely accurate, look back at the specs sheet, fording ability is good(4'7" deep and easily modified to deeper fording), climbing over a obstacle is good, taking a 45 degree hill is good(50% side slope, and 100% gradient),they perform extremely well in the snow, Tatra actually has a factory snow blade available. The turning radias is actually very good for the size of the truck, it is pretty close to my club cab 1 ton chevy pickup and its way longer .As far as the indipendant suspention, if you notice just about everything from regular pickup trucks to ATV's are all going independant suspention there is a reason for that ,it performs better and the ride is a lot more comfortable. I dont think you can say any of these facts are bad performance maybe not the best of the best but I think its up there.anyway like I said I dont want to go back and forth proving who has a better truck lets just agree they are both awsome heck they are both 8x8's!! thats cool enough.

sorry, spel check is not working and I dont have time to edit.

 

[cranetruck]

Sorry, yes I do take it personally when extraordinary claims are made, just check that KRAZ 255 thread about "airing up in seconds". If questions aren't asked, we'd be left thinking that the CTIS on the FMTVs must be of really poor design.


My background is engineering and if you have read any of my articles and/or other posts on this forum, you know that I like to get to the bottom of things, here is an opportunity to get real answers, so forgive me for asking.
I do appreciate your answers and your patience. I think it's an education for all of us.
As far as the claims go, I wasn't very specific, but for example, the Hagglunds M973 can run circles around the Tatra in the snow and the deuce and the 5-tonners on this site can ford 6 ft of water, specifically to be able to exit landing crafts in the ocean surf.
Just being able to ford water to a certain depth because of larger tires isn't a design solution IMHO, it just comes with the size of the vehicle.

I'd like to explore the fuel gauge/fuel level sending unit thing, but if you are not comfortable with it, I'll hold off on that.

Oh, I have a Russian military clock in my deuce and like it very much.

 

[Goatwerks]

You have Eurotruckophobia , get over it. A lot of people get uncomfortable when their beliefs in vehicles is challenged. Some of the things that makes the Tatra so reliable are the spine frame configuration and the Air cooled Diesel engine, the big 3 are too stupid and set in thier ways to see inovation , so there is no real inovation in US truck designs. The US companies tend to buy out the competition instead of making better trucks. One case in point is the production of the TDI Pinzgauers, the company is now US owned(yes our military has a few).
Go to You tube and type in Tatra, or Dakar Tatra, then you can see what they can do.
Don't let pride get in the way of facts, ALL of these military trucks are impressive and have special purposes. Some like the Tatra's are better suited to large open area's.
While the Tatra is a Beast, it can traverse some very steep and nasty terrain
As for water, they can ford some pretty deep stuff. A simple fact, no one truck is best at everything, they all have a place they work best, but I do believe the Tatra would go anywhere your US 8X8 will.
I can say this because I have seen both in action