bguy193
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#1
Now that is a nice find.
Now that is a nice find.
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Steel Soldiers now has a few new forums, read more about it at: New Munitions Forums!
The 5-Ton HMTT is home!
- Thread starter paradeduty
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Dude, that's awesome that you're putting it back together now! I was wondering what had happened to your find since it had been a couple years since I last heard about it...
paradeduty
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Ya - just been dragging my feet a bit. Been trying to figure out some hydraulic issues on the truck, but the guys at the truck shop are going to give it a go - they have some really good and simple ideas. Work was insane last summer and basically nothing got done around here (and it kind of shows - I'm such a slacker!). But the push is on to keep things stepping foreward. Can't push too hard 'cuz the guys that are working on these are great and are really trying to keep the costs as reasonable as possible. You know how much things can cost when you HAVE TO HAVE IT DONE RIGHT NOW! Makes me shudder just thinking about it! So, send things to them and work on something else while they work on it between all of those "important" customers! I keep telling them, "don't worry about it, If it's not sitting in your yard - it's probably just sitting in mine!" Clock is ticking, so more to come soon, I hope. Dave.
colt45727
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Winning!!!!!
paradeduty
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Well - it was a little stressfull, but I got up the guts to jack up/tilt the cab on the HMTT Prototype. I have been leary of doing so because I have heard of things going bad fast (cylinders/lines blowing/superstructure failure - any of which can cause the cab to go crashing over or back down). But she jacked up just fine and held the pose for almost 6 hours while I tinkered. Didn't want to press my luck, so I didn't tip it over all of the way. Kind of kept it sort of the "down side of centerline of the pivot point" if you can imagine what I mean. Anyways, had to work on the accelerator system. Pulled out and replaced the "pto" cable, made new brackets to hold ever so slightly different cable. Installed new, stiffer return spring (old ones were original looking and pretty weak). Lube all and cranked her up on the first spin after sitting all winter - got to love it! Pictures to come. Dave.
paradeduty
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Pictures as promised!
Just a couple to prove that the cab does in fact still tilt! Dave.
Just a couple to prove that the cab does in fact still tilt! Dave.
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paradeduty
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Forward Motion......
Well, the guys are going to be at the truck shop on Saturday. So, my plan is to drive it over there for them to start wrenching. There is going to be some down time between this and that over there, so they referred me to a tire guy right across the street from their shop that they do a lot of work with. Really nice guy and he is willing to "see what I've got" when I get it down there. He is really familiar with the HEMTT's and 2-piece rims, but as I told him - this one is a different monster. Told him that I have the tires, just need tubes and flaps, rim cleanup and mounting. Might as well get that done while it is sitting waiting for mechanical parts or something. Have to keep things moving forward if she is going to get done for the show! I found a source for new replacement Grover Air Horns, new replacement Dual Headlight Buckets and Trims, new replacement Stainless Cab Door Piano Hinges (the originals are steel and are binding quite a bit from years of rust), new replacement Radiator Ornament (cab-overs do not have a hood!), and I have a fabricator working on a replacement grill. It's funny how the small things can be kind of exciting - while tinkering, the passenger air ride seat rose up with air - so I was wondering......sure enough, the driver's side came up too with some finagling! Just a worn out/buggered up seat position valve. Cool! Started toting home 5 gallon cans x 2 of diesel fuel to top off the tank just so there is no question on the ride over on Saturday. Anyways, have to keep pusing forward. Dave.
Well, the guys are going to be at the truck shop on Saturday. So, my plan is to drive it over there for them to start wrenching. There is going to be some down time between this and that over there, so they referred me to a tire guy right across the street from their shop that they do a lot of work with. Really nice guy and he is willing to "see what I've got" when I get it down there. He is really familiar with the HEMTT's and 2-piece rims, but as I told him - this one is a different monster. Told him that I have the tires, just need tubes and flaps, rim cleanup and mounting. Might as well get that done while it is sitting waiting for mechanical parts or something. Have to keep things moving forward if she is going to get done for the show! I found a source for new replacement Grover Air Horns, new replacement Dual Headlight Buckets and Trims, new replacement Stainless Cab Door Piano Hinges (the originals are steel and are binding quite a bit from years of rust), new replacement Radiator Ornament (cab-overs do not have a hood!), and I have a fabricator working on a replacement grill. It's funny how the small things can be kind of exciting - while tinkering, the passenger air ride seat rose up with air - so I was wondering......sure enough, the driver's side came up too with some finagling! Just a worn out/buggered up seat position valve. Cool! Started toting home 5 gallon cans x 2 of diesel fuel to top off the tank just so there is no question on the ride over on Saturday. Anyways, have to keep pusing forward. Dave.
Danger Ranger
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Neat truck, I didn't know you had this one too. Looks like a great project, can't wait to see it done.
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The m656/xm757 12-inch wide wheels are made for tubeless tires, unless you are using tires that won't fit properly. (Yes, it's the under carriage of that series trucks, if not mentioned B4).
Congrats on your progress.
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WOW, that is awesome! What a gorgeous truck! I first saw photos of that prototype in a book about wheeled military vehicles sometime around 1991, and that image has been stuck in my mind ever since. It's nice to see that the truck wasn't a myth, but that it actually LIVES! And a Steel Soldier now owns it!!
AWESOME! PURE WIN!
Keep up the great work & photos!!
![[thumbzup]](https://www.steelsoldiers.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_thumzup.gif "Thumbs Up [thumbzup]")
AWESOME! PURE WIN!
Keep up the great work & photos!!
paradeduty
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Hey Bjorn!
That's what I thought about the rims from what I remember about the M656 that I owned about 12 years ago. Do the ones on your truck have the "split rim" ring around the outer edge of the rim? The ones on this truck seem to have it. I don't know it they just adapted some wider split rims that were available to the Dayton Rim style of mounting to fit the 1600:20's on this truck. I know that the stock tires on the 656 were a 1600:20 "low profile" (at least that is what I used to call them). If the stock rims were 12" wide, they probably would not have to widen/modify them for the later model, taller ones. I know that these definitely have the "split rim ring" on them though. Any wisdom from your end would be greatly appreciated. You sure have put a lot of time into researching this chassis.
Dave
That's what I thought about the rims from what I remember about the M656 that I owned about 12 years ago. Do the ones on your truck have the "split rim" ring around the outer edge of the rim? The ones on this truck seem to have it. I don't know it they just adapted some wider split rims that were available to the Dayton Rim style of mounting to fit the 1600:20's on this truck. I know that the stock tires on the 656 were a 1600:20 "low profile" (at least that is what I used to call them). If the stock rims were 12" wide, they probably would not have to widen/modify them for the later model, taller ones. I know that these definitely have the "split rim ring" on them though. Any wisdom from your end would be greatly appreciated. You sure have put a lot of time into researching this chassis.
Dave
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Dave, the wheels use a split ring as shown in the images below. The original tire is a 16/70-20 (16 inches wide with a 70% aspect ratio from actual measurements) to use commercial nomenclature. Anything larger in diameter will create problems with articulation and possibly steering.
Weren't there chains or something limiting the suspension movements on your prototype?
Weren't there chains or something limiting the suspension movements on your prototype?
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spicergear
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That is a great recovery!!! Very cool! Keep picking at it and you'll start seeing it come together!
paradeduty
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Bjorn,
Thanks for the info and pictures! A couple of questions.....(1) the original rims (like you have) use a split ring but, if I understand you correctly, would still fully seat airtight if using the correct tire? (i.e. no tube - I always assumed that split ring rims were not themselves air tight) (2) I never did quite understand the difference in notation between 16/70-20 and 1600-20. Tried surfing for an answer and havn't hit on it yet.
From the picture of your right front tire/rim, looks like the rims on mine have been either widended or shifted outwards (probably for tire clearance to the frame for turning). The cage steps on the front brake drums on mine are almost fully recessed within the rim. Yes, there are chain style restraints from each end of axles 2 and 3 to the frame to limit boggie rotation. I couldn't remember if these were also used on the production 656 trucks.
Thanks for the info and pictures! A couple of questions.....(1) the original rims (like you have) use a split ring but, if I understand you correctly, would still fully seat airtight if using the correct tire? (i.e. no tube - I always assumed that split ring rims were not themselves air tight) (2) I never did quite understand the difference in notation between 16/70-20 and 1600-20. Tried surfing for an answer and havn't hit on it yet.
From the picture of your right front tire/rim, looks like the rims on mine have been either widended or shifted outwards (probably for tire clearance to the frame for turning). The cage steps on the front brake drums on mine are almost fully recessed within the rim. Yes, there are chain style restraints from each end of axles 2 and 3 to the frame to limit boggie rotation. I couldn't remember if these were also used on the production 656 trucks.
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Dave, about the tire description, the first number is the width (16 inches), the "/70" is the height as measured from rim expressed as a percentage of the width (in this case 70% or 11.2 inches and called the aspect ratio) and the "20" is the diameter of the wheel (rim).
If there is no slash in the number, like "1600-20", then the aspect ratio is 100% and the width is the same as the height.
The military part number for the m656 tire is 1600-20 for whatever reason and does not show the aspect ratio, but by measurement should be called 16/70-20 or 16/70R-20 if radial type.
The width of the wheel should be about 75% of the tire width for proper fit, in this case 12 inches. The tire itself provides the seal, not the split ring, which is "only" keeping the tire in place.
These numbers apply to deuce tires as well, "900-20" implies a 9 inch wide tire and an aspect ratio of 100% (=9 inches tire height). Add the diameter of the rim and two times the tire height for the total height of the wheel, or 38 inches for the deuce 900-20 tire.
The tires on your prototype (1600-20) gives you a total diameter of 52 inches compared to the 42.4 for the original design (16/70-20).
There are no restrictive chains on the m656/xm757 suspensions.
One more thing, the tires for the m656 series trucks were specifically designed for it and are rare, so it's understandable that a different tire was used for your prototype... with consequences.
If there is no slash in the number, like "1600-20", then the aspect ratio is 100% and the width is the same as the height.
The military part number for the m656 tire is 1600-20 for whatever reason and does not show the aspect ratio, but by measurement should be called 16/70-20 or 16/70R-20 if radial type.
The width of the wheel should be about 75% of the tire width for proper fit, in this case 12 inches. The tire itself provides the seal, not the split ring, which is "only" keeping the tire in place.
These numbers apply to deuce tires as well, "900-20" implies a 9 inch wide tire and an aspect ratio of 100% (=9 inches tire height). Add the diameter of the rim and two times the tire height for the total height of the wheel, or 38 inches for the deuce 900-20 tire.
The tires on your prototype (1600-20) gives you a total diameter of 52 inches compared to the 42.4 for the original design (16/70-20).
There are no restrictive chains on the m656/xm757 suspensions.
One more thing, the tires for the m656 series trucks were specifically designed for it and are rare, so it's understandable that a different tire was used for your prototype... with consequences.
paradeduty
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Thanks Big Time, Bjorn - Big learning moment here!
There are some small stamped number series's on the rim I was checking out yesterday, but they are toward the inside of the rim past the Dayton bolt flange and hard to make out (and upside down). I will check out when they are off and can be cleaned up. I wish these tires were in better shape to keep - even for the historic value because of their age. They really have a lot of cracking between the tread "blocks". Interesting the choice in tread patterns. These are Michelin Model X, Sype S (I am assuming for Sand with the wide, flat tread "blocks"). When I was looking for replacement tires for the 656 I had way back when, nobody even knew what I was talking about - even military tire vendors! Definitely rare birds then. The military must have just special ordered limited number runs of them to be made when they (rarely) needed them.
Dave.
There are some small stamped number series's on the rim I was checking out yesterday, but they are toward the inside of the rim past the Dayton bolt flange and hard to make out (and upside down). I will check out when they are off and can be cleaned up. I wish these tires were in better shape to keep - even for the historic value because of their age. They really have a lot of cracking between the tread "blocks". Interesting the choice in tread patterns. These are Michelin Model X, Sype S (I am assuming for Sand with the wide, flat tread "blocks"). When I was looking for replacement tires for the 656 I had way back when, nobody even knew what I was talking about - even military tire vendors! Definitely rare birds then. The military must have just special ordered limited number runs of them to be made when they (rarely) needed them.
Dave.
spicergear
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It would be pretty cool to get some of the Omsk Tyre tires like on the Ural trucks with that partial chevron look to the tread. It certainly would have a very foreign military look to it.
paradeduty
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Loading Up for the Drive to the Truck Shop
If the weather holds out for tomorrow morning, am hoping to drive the HMTT to Jackson to the Truck Shop to have some maintenance done, the hydraulic pump drive "re-created", and the tires and rims wrenched on. So, I got home from yanking wire on a job and got the tractor out of the barn. Although it was not quick, loading and straping down 9 new tires and the spare in the bed did not go bad at all. Anyways, she's all loaded up and waiting for the dawn. Want to head out really early with my wife following up behind to try and avoid as much traffic and "creative" drivers as possible. Wish me luck! Dave.
If the weather holds out for tomorrow morning, am hoping to drive the HMTT to Jackson to the Truck Shop to have some maintenance done, the hydraulic pump drive "re-created", and the tires and rims wrenched on. So, I got home from yanking wire on a job and got the tractor out of the barn. Although it was not quick, loading and straping down 9 new tires and the spare in the bed did not go bad at all. Anyways, she's all loaded up and waiting for the dawn. Want to head out really early with my wife following up behind to try and avoid as much traffic and "creative" drivers as possible. Wish me luck! Dave.
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Vaya con Dios, Dave!
(Go with God)
That truck looks like it could crawl over just about any obstacle it encounters...
Best regards,
John
(Go with God)
That truck looks like it could crawl over just about any obstacle it encounters...
Best regards,
John
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Amazing truck you have there. Do you have some pictures of the interior, dash, seating and hvac..?