There has to be a better fuel pump!!!!!!!

[General Mcgregor]

It gets very noisy sometimes, or this one did at least. I have 3 new fuel filters and checked the lines all the way to the IP there are no kinks or anything like that. There do not seem to be any obstructions because I get a very good stream (typically) from the bleeder screw. This pump was just always noisy. I would hate to buy a new pump just to have it happen again, what else could cause pump failure?

 

[JasonS]

The hose is fine.
Why do we even have these pumps then if the system works as you say it does? If the military thought along those lines than the pump would not run constantly while the master switch was on. They would instead have a switch to turn it on for priming ONLY if needed. I have talked to many who have said that the pump IS needed for starting. Am I missing something or is this entire thing just a crappy design??

So, was this a "good" used pump or new? Have you tried the new $50 pumps mentioned here?

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/79191-has-anyone-tried-fit-pump.html

 

[General Mcgregor]

So, was this a "good" used pump or new? Have you tried the new $50 pumps mentioned in a SS thread?

It was a 'good used takeout'. I am looking into that very pump as we speak and would like to hear from anyone who has done that switch. It seems like a good buy if it lasts.

 

[glcaines]

Knock on wood, I've had my A2 going on three years now and I've never had a problem with the in-tank pump. I also drove a deuce in the Army in the early 70s and never had a problem with the pump. It's been over 40 years since I drove a deuce in the Army, but I don't remember any significant problems with deuce fuel pumps.

I always keep my tank at least 3/4 full when I park it since you never know when you'll need it. That being said, I routinely run my tank down to about 1/4 full on trips. This is 1/4 full measured by dip-stick since my gauge is toast.

 

[pctrans]

This is how I check for air leaks in the fuel line.....

 

[General Mcgregor]

Knock on wook, I've had my A2 going on three years now and I've never had a problem with the in-tank pump. I also drove a deuce in the Army in the early 70s and never had a problem with the pump. It's been over 40 years since I drove a deuce in the Army, but I don't remember any significant problems with deuce fuel pumps.

Don't get me wrong I have no doubt that it has a lot to do with the age of these pumps, any vehicular part that reaches the age of 40 is probably prone to failure but I have talked to so many who have had problems with them that it seems to be a very common issue.

 

[emmado22]

The same fuel pump is used on the M1 tank (4 of them for ther 4 fuel cells) and the M2 Bradley. They are good pumps, just dont "fry" the pump by letting fuel get down to less than 1/4 tank, as stated before, the fuel cools the pump. As far as a giood used take out, who knows how many hours are on it. Beltfed 34 on ebay has lots of NOS pumps (including the new style) for way cheaper than factory pricing. Also, dont forget the deuces have a 2 amp slow blow fuse that is on the +24V side of the pump.

 

[misupratwin]

When i bought my truck the fuel pump was loud, sounded like it was rubbing on something. I took it out and tore the bottom of the pump apart
( they don't have a mechanical connection to the actual pump, it's a magnetic thing)
I cleaned all the fine metal dust of from the magnet blew it all out with shop air , and it works fine and is quite. Tim

 

[clinto]

We've had dozens of deuces, we have only had to replace...... 1 or 2.

My luck being what it is, I've never had any luck with takeout items (starters/fuel pumps/alternators/etc.). How do you know the takeout pump didn't have 2500 hours on it and was doomed to fail within 20 hours of installing it?

I would recommend buying one of the new ones from Olympic (note posts #12 and #14): http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/24987-where-purchase-new-tank-fuel-pumps-parts.html


Also, the $50 pumps referenced above are also good choice, although you'll have to modify the power wire).

In closing, I do not think they are a bad design, I think you're having bad luck with used 20+ year old electrical items.

 

[bshupe]

As far as the amount of fuel to store in the tank I just treat half as empty and bounce off that rather than dry. Good emergency plan if nothing else.

 

[wreckerman893]

The only thing that lies more consistantly than a career politician (Rep or Dem) is a MV fuel guage.

When it hits half a tank I'm topping off unless I have ten gallons of fuel with me.

 

[Floridianson]

Well from what I read the in tank does need to be running for top performance. Yes it does come in handy when we do a filter change and yes the trucks seem to run great without the intank running if the system is closed and full. I would think cavation would be the only problem that could cause a small performance problem. Guess the true test might be run the intank and see if you get the 30 lb at idle and 70lb at full throttel then shut off the intank and see if you still get the same numbers and no air in the finials after running a good bit.

 

[maxxplanck]

fuel pumps

The in tank pump is supposed to supply 4 to 7 psi to the IP, and the IP takes it from there. The company that makes the pump has them for about $250, but I've read the literature on them - they are expected to last about 4000 hours. Remember that your engine hour gauge may not have anything to do with reality before you got the truck (or the used pumps).

Olympic Controls Corp, New with shipping $240. I bought one last summer it works great..............

 

[Floridianson]

Another thought is the intank pump puts 4-7 lb at the HH before starting. When the truck is being started the fuel control linkage is in the full fuel pisition and the spill collar is closed. The 4-7 lb of pressure might be what they thought it might need to asure the truck starting quickley and injectors getting a good shot. Then after the trucks starts the Gov. control pulls the linkage back to the idle pisition and the 30lb carries from there.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Well just for the heck of it this morning I cracked my bleeder screw and turned on the master switch, out came old faithful practically!
She started right up.... confusion quickly set in.... I am assuming that the pump was overheated like stated in previous posts but can't be sure, when I ran the pump outside of the tank yesterday the impeller seemed to be spinning correctly. Maybe it was lacking the power it needed because of the overheating? Whatever the case I am still not sure if I trust it and am planning on buying a spare (new) just in case. Also from now on I am doing like Wreckerman and keeping the tank at least half full.
Sorry for speaking harshly about the pumps yesterday, frustration is all that was. I learned a very expensive lesson but it could have been a lot worse, luckily it happend close to home in a safe location with a tow service nearby. It could have happend to me on my way to go camping this year (100 miles away).
I still however am not completely satisfied with the system, I assume it was built this way for a reason but I have yet to fully understand what that reason is. If the IP can draw fuel from the tank while the engine is running than there is no reason for the in tank pump to be running all the time. I think I am going to put an aux switch on my dash for it only when it's needed for priming as stated earlier. I am also going to add an air valve for priming with the onboard air like suggested in post #2.
Any ideas on the possible overheating?

 

[Heavysteven]

I like the design, when the system is sealed you can run with out the pump and when there is a leak the pump primes the system. Real important to make sure the hose is in good shape because if it's rooted your down.

Those fuel gauges are tricky, they need a good ground to work right. Kind of like the distance to empty in miles nothing more than an educated guess.


If it was me I would pull and replace the fuel pump and hose. Check all the fuel lines and repair as required.

 

[panshark]

Keeping the tank at least half full might be harder for you than you think. People have habits; habits conflict with reality. I know my dad only keeps a tank a quarter to half full--only has enough to run a day's worth of errands. Something to do with gas prices, maybe doesn't want to fill up with expensive gas in case the price drops. Does it make sense? No--it doesn't have to make sense.

I could be wrong, but I think I've seen WM post up that another driving habit he has is to shut off the power after starting up. You don't have the fuel pump or alternator operating, but everything else is mechanical. Lights can run off of the batteries. I have no problem practicing this habit during daylight driving.

Since it sounds like you've nursed the in-tank pump back to life, I would suggest that if you run into a low-fuel situation again, kill the power and head to a fuel station. If you run out of fuel, no big deal, you've got the electric pump cool and ready to re-prime. You haven't nuked anything on the truck either.

 

[General Mcgregor]

Keeping the tank at least half full might be harder for you than you think. People have habits; habits conflict with reality.

This is what I was afraid of, but I would like to be able to do it anyway. It will be difficult but you never know when you might need that fuel in the tank like in a disaster scenario.
Maybe I can rig my fuel float to read 'empty' when I'm actually at a quarter tank or something. That would take the edge off the mental factor of it.

 

[dmetalmiki]

Problems

Ive had them all with these fuel systems. All my trucks have a switch on the dash to TURN OFF the in tank pumps after enginge warm up. and before driving. though sometimes when just on the road to start a journey.
A note. Some of my trucks run with the pumps off..but some DO NOT!, no leaks full fuel ..they just stall out or run really bad. A point for you to check.., your pump failed, and now works. Well yes...another p..poor design ellement with these pumps is the "drive" to the impellor. (or NOT!)..it is MAGNETIC, sooooo..any dirt or foriegn particles ( it carbon dust? from the brushes)on the drive plates..and Whammo! they slip..so you hear the pump running ok..But the driving PLATE is NOT actually rotating (at full speed ( if at all)) to drive the impellor. (hence the loud / scraping / whining noises heard from these units. I have opened the units, cleaned them, and serviced the unit ..then had them Re(sealed)-Welded BY A SPECIALIST welder. (a spark in the tank...)?? safety FIRST every time. other than that , I like the idea others proffered on the alternative pump.

 

[ebrownell]

I have a 1967 m54a2 multi-fuel. The previous owner bypassed the in tank pump and installed an inline pump. Currently I don't have any power at the pump. Does that wire come directly from the master switch or where else should I test? It does run without the pump working but it churns quite a bit before starting and doesn't idle very well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.