Total brake failure during a panic stop

[mojeeper]

It drove well today. Or should I say it stopped fine. I still drove like a little old lady.
I want to start looking for new brake shoes. I have some that are close to the ones that failed. And it looks like I need some seals.
Of course I intend to search way past my bed time however comma I wonder if anyone knows of a good source that is reasonable for brake shoes that is worth mentioning.

Do they take the old cores? Or should I toss em?

are they worth relining ? its something you could look into

 

[Kaiserjeeps]

I did find some relining kits. I think extra time is pretty rare these days. Plus I would feel better knowing that the shoes were most likely done on a machine properly. I would feel pretty crunchy if I hit someone because of a lining that may come loose or fold like I already did. I'll post what I found.

TNJ Murray has shoes for 20 bucks a shoe. Saturn was next at 29. Memphis was the only company that mentioned wanting a core back.

Inner and outer seals were from Clark truck parts at 12.00 for the inner and 11.50 for the outer. Everyone else was 17ish dollars. Memphis equipment did have the outers for 10.39. Memphis inners were 17.75 It was more cost effective with shipping to order from Clark.


As you were.

 

[FormerNewMVGuy]

I just had a panic stop go awry. I was pulling into a fuel station to get some diesel to haul a load to my new place. A guy darts in front of me early on in my approach and me really not seeing him hit the brakes hard to stop in time. Since there was a now a pick up in my path where there was none seconds before, I needed to stop way sooner. It made pressure for a 1/4 second and went straight to the floor. I grabbed the emergency brake while headed right for the pumps and this pick up. I came to a chattering stop. Everybody was oblivious to the excitement that almost took place. My friend and I were grateful we were not on the pass we were just headed for. I took it apart today and was really surprised at what I found.
I am not sure why it failed. I really romped the brakes a week earlier for a deer. I think I may have started the problem then?

Today I rebuilt the master with a kit as it seemed sticky. It was new last year. I got a nice smooth hone inside it. It functions well when bench bleeding. The airpack is less than a year old. I am having trouble bleeding all of it. I am building a bleeder tomorrow from the stickey. I feel like I should look at all of them now. Thank you 503m715 for the extra parts to get me going.

I see every reason to up grade to more modern brakes. A dual system. What works as a good conversion?

This is failure number two. Hence the reason for all the new parts earlier.
I love my hobby, but I don't want to die doing it.

I had that exact same failure on one of my deuce's, i belive it is bad welds on the brake shoe, re welded it and still going strong

 

[mojeeper]

I did find some relining kits. I think extra time is pretty rare these days. Plus I would feel better knowing that the shoes were most likely done on a machine properly. I would feel pretty crunchy if I hit someone because of a lining that may come loose or fold like I already did. I'll post what I found.

TNJ Murray has shoes for 20 bucks a shoe. Saturn was next at 29. Memphis was the only company that mentioned wanting a core back.

Inner and outer seals were from Clark truck parts at 12.00 for the inner and 11.50 for the outer. Everyone else was 17ish dollars. Memphis equipment did have the outers for 10.39. Memphis inners were 17.75 It was more cost effective with shipping to order from Clark.


As you were.

it was just a thought we had some done by Gooch brake in Kansas City worked out well

 

[dmetalmiki]

Wow scary

good job the handbrake was up to parr..does not bode thinking about if it had been a bit "slack"..glad to hear you reacted so quick..I have seen that brake fail occurence on ex military vehicles over here that I have repaired and generally found the shoes were at limit on the occurence.

I have (un fortunately?) run over two cars that pulled in under my front bumper.. as..bieng "left hand drive" they did NOT get the "grace" of obviouse vision in my case..and the wrecker (and 5 ton latterly) sort a slowed a bit..and I was going to apply more "go juice" when I saw bits flying over the bonnet (hood!)..usually happens on those doghnuts in the road over here called roundabouts. In fact I believe that happend to one driver who carried on obliviouse! so it does happen. ( I must look 4 the link ) here it is gents..( just think how much fuel she saved)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnETGNFb_6g[/media]

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

good job the handbrake was up to parr..does not bode thinking about if it had been a bit "slack"..glad to hear you reacted so quick..I have seen that brake fail occurence on ex military vehicles over here that I have repaired and generally found the shoes were at limit on the occurence.

I have (un fortunately?) run over two cars that pulled in under my front bumper.. as..bieng "left hand drive" they did NOT get the "grace" of obviouse vision in my case..and the wrecker (and 5 ton latterly) sort a slowed a bit..and I was going to apply more "go juice" when I saw bits flying over the bonnet (hood!)..usually happens on those doghnuts in the road over here called roundabouts. In fact I believe that happend to one driver who carried on obliviouse! so it does happen. ( I must look 4 the link ) here it is gents..( just think how much fuel she saved)

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnETGNFb_6g[/media]

That's an impressive VIDEO
Thank for posting it up.

 

[dmetalmiki]

P.S. to the shove

You will note (as per my comment on cutting in in front of "LHD vehicles" over here that, that was an right (approach ( offside )) blind entry upon a right hand drive lorry.

Iv'e had them ( obviously )from my offside (rightside) blind entry .

 

[unclemikey]

I have never seen a brake fail like that, much less twice the same way. I will an eye out for any sign of a like. Glade there was no damage or hurt. Thanks for the good pics guys and your info post.

 

[Kaiserjeeps]

Nice looking truck Unclemikey!

Having this happen has completely changed my driving style. I was headed for a pass with no guard rails. I could have seriously injured or killed my friend that was with me. I have new shoes on the way.

I am considering TIG welding the top weld on the new shoes. Treated just like thin metal with cooling I think it will be fine.

Looks like a pretty serious brake issue is riding around with us every day. I hope people read this and drive conservatively along with really watching their brake wear. The last thing we need in this hobby is to be pile driving the public every now and then.

I wish people would drive nicer. I had a semi next to me pin a car like that here in town on the freeway. I remember looking over in shock at the man and womans faces staring straight at me as their mini truck skidded sideways pinned to the front of the truck. Serious deer in the headlights. I braked hard to let the semi driver over. I bet they don't do that again.

 

[73m819]

KJ, what you don't went to go 65 MPH like some on the site want to do. I would guess the weld FAILURE was the cause, not leaking cylinder, worn brakes, ect. because all shoe brakes have some play.

 

[maudoose]

After reading this is a very good reason for me to fix my e brake.

 

[Wolfgang the Gray]

I'm glad there were no injuries with this & think good shoes & frequent brake checks are key to safety.

Let me ask this of all the Deuce owners here. How long have you owned your Deuce & have you (not a friend, acquaintance, or third person story) personally had a brake failure while driving? What was the cause & did you ever have another failure after properly fixing the cause?

I have read a couple first person accounts like this thread, but trying to find out how common of an occurrence like this really is.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I had put a wheel cyl(new) on without pulling it apart. Sure enough, it leaked on the test drive around the block! What a waste of bfs. I now pull them apart and check before installing, even new from the box.

 

[Clay James]

I had a wheel cylinder fail in my M109A3. Luckily it was sitting in it's stable at home when I found the pedal go to the floor. The trip the week before involved coming back over the pass in the Sierra Nevada mountains! I had rebuilt them a few years prior. Don't know what went wrong. Installed all recent production military surplus wheel cylinders and all is well.

 

[scboolitcaster]

I had put a wheel cyl(new) on without pulling it apart. Sure enough, it leaked on the test drive around the block! What a waste of bfs. I now pull them apart and check before installing, even new from the box.

I'm getting ready to replace my first wheel cylinder tomorrow. I feel like an idiot for having to ask, but:

What do you look for when you pull them apart?
Did you have to replace the brake shoe too?

 

[scboolitcaster]

I'm glad there were no injuries with this & think good shoes & frequent brake checks are key to safety.

Let me ask this of all the Deuce owners here. How long have you owned your Deuce & have you (not a friend, acquaintance, or third person story) personally had a brake failure while driving? What was the cause & did you ever have another failure after properly fixing the cause?

I have read a couple first person accounts like this thread, but trying to find out how common of an occurrence like this really is.

I've had the deuce for 2 months now I think. Brakes went out during the test drive.
LOL
Luckily we were in the middle of nowhere.

It's sitting in my driveway right now with a leaky wheel cylinder (good pedal pressure still though. weird)
Doesn't really meet your criteria because I spotted it before driving.
The same wheel cylinder was replaced the day I picked it up.

Kinda brings up a good point though.. There's probably a good reason the military requires a walkaround inspection and checking the fluid level.

 

[gimpyrobb]

Nah, I hose the shoe down with brake clean if its contaminated, then re-install. The cyls I pull apart and make sure the cup isn't sideways in the bore like the one I had to fix! It doesn't hurt to look in and make sure there is no casting sand, rust, or any other issues. I have a vat of sillycone brake fluid I save from bleeding my brakes. I use that to lube up the parts when I put the cyl back together.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[rustystud]

Nah, I hose the shoe down with brake clean if its contaminated, then re-install. The cyls I pull apart and make sure the cup isn't sideways in the bore like the one I had to fix! It doesn't hurt to look in and make sure there is no casting sand, rust, or any other issues. I have a vat of sillycone brake fluid I save from bleeding my brakes. I use that to lube up the parts when I put the cyl back together.

Hope that answers your question.

I also save my springs as the new wheel cylinders don't always come with the proper spring that holds the cups. I bought a bunch of "Chinese" made cylinders and threw-out all the cups and installed new ones from NAPA and installed my old springs.

 

[Wolfgang the Gray]

Thanks all for the replies. So including the original post, that is 4 failures so far. Anyone else want to chime if if they personally have had a brake failure?

From what I can glean from the posts, the biggest preventative is keeping a good eye on the brake fluid level for leaks (made easier with the remote fluid reservoir just inside the left side engine panel) and crawling under & checking for leaks on the wheels.

With brakes in good working order, how often would you all recommend pulling them apart to check? Also, can you tell me which TM covers working on the brakes? I'd like to study up so I will know what to do before I have to do it.

 

[gimpyrobb]

I pull mine apart after "wheeling". You'd be surprised at how much mud and grime gets in there. Leaving mud/sand in there will eat your brake pads quick, and wear out the drum.