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Transfer switch MEP-803a

Coug

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It’s the Generac 9855. I think he just googled 50 amp transfer switch.
So if you're doing a hardwire install, then that one isn't ideal, but it will work.
The reason I say this is it comes with an inlet box and power cable, which you shouldn't need for this job.
The 9854 is the same transfer switch without those 2 items.
The first website I checked is showing the 9854 for $200 less, but backordered through august.
The 9855 is also backordered, but shows through mid July.

This switch is designed exactly for the situation you are in, so good to go.



Is 6/4 the correct size for a 70’ run? Do I need a ground and neutral?
I believe that 6/3 with ground would be correct for this. the 6 is 6 gauge, the 3 is 3 conductors. 6/4 would have 4 conductors and would be appropriate for 3 phase power.

For 50 amps power at 70 feet of run, limited to 3% line loss gives you a minimum size of 6 gauge. With 4 gauge it would be 1% loss, but even 5% is still within allowable range for this type of application. You can easily bump up the voltage a little at the generator if you are worried about it, but pretty much all household appliances will work normally within 10-15% of rated utility (so for a 120V circuit you might see anything from 110 to 130VAC, though usually it's between 115 and 120)

you do have to run the ground and neutral wires as well. For a permanently installed generator like this, it has to be tied into the house ground circuit (and the little bar between ground and neutral removed in the generator). Or your local code might say differently. The problem with grounding the generator separately than the house is the ground (earth/dirt that the ground rods get driven into) still conducts electricity. This can cause issues with some circuits.

The neutral is required because the 2 hots carry 240V between them. They each carry 120V to the neutral. If you don't have the neutral then all you will be able to use is 240V appliances. If you happen to have 2 120V circuits that share a neutral between them then if one has a tiny load and the other a heavy load, the one with the light load will be way over voltage, and the heavy one way under voltage as it tries to balance everything out. Very bad for anything plugged into those circuits.

I got a bid for $2300 plus the cost of the transfer switch. The run is about 70’ (includes slop, jic) in 3/4”emt

I buy the switch
I pour the slab
I set the generator

I’m no electrician, but $2300 to run wire and install switch seems high. Am I off?
So I don't want to insult anyone, but he is likely padding his time. He knows roughly what it should take for time to move all those circuits over to a new panel, but is giving himself a lot of extra just in case. Homeowners don't want to hear a quote of $1200 then have it double if something goes wrong.
The only issue is if everything goes perfect and he's out of there in less than a day, you'll still get the $2300 charge.

This particular transfer switch has all the wiring to it already done, so in the electrical panel all the loads that are coming over get disconnected then hooked to the new wires they go to, and a 50 amp breaker gets installed to power the sub panel. A competent electrician should be able to do it in a couple of hours.

I don't know how the power is being run from the gen to the switch. If it's just EMT above ground being run alongside the house, then once again, shouldn't take more than a couple hours. (I'd have expected electrical pvc conduit as it's easier/more secure) I would also think it would be 1" rather than 3/4" for that size.
If it's being buried then a couple extra hours would be expected, depending on soil type and depth of install.

There are too many variables involved for me to give even a wild guess as to how much time/money it should take to install.
My only suggestion is if there is more than one electrical company that is nearby you talk to each of them and get additional bids.
 

Buffalobwana

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I got a bid that is better. $2300 all in. Interlock kit, labor, wire, etc, etc.

It’s 100’ run. The wire is listed at $1500. I guess that’s where they are making their profit.

I’ll manage the slab, but since you won’t catch me running conduit up the side of my house and crawling through the attic, dealing with notoriously picky city inspectors (probably more picky with a resident over a company), this is probably as good as it gets here.

I do have to have city permit and inspections on the slab and the generator itself.
 

Buffalobwana

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Ah, yes. One more thing. They do allow an interlock kit here, so I can choose my loads based on the season (AC in summer, more options in winter since I’m on natural gas). The electrician also said he would tell me the real amperage, start up load etc of all the favorite circuits.
 

MixManSC

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Reliance also makes a device specifically to alert you when utility power is restored so you can switch back over. Obviously not needed with an automatic transfer switch setup but can be helpful otherwise. https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-Corporation-THP108-PowerBACK/dp/B003KREORA I have one and it does work although it is quite a bit louder than I'd prefer. My main panel is on the outside of our house and I have it mounted to the panel. We are rural on 5 acres and I can hear it from a couple of acres away... lol
 

Buffalobwana

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Reliance also makes a device specifically to alert you when utility power is restored so you can switch back over. Obviously not needed with an automatic transfer switch setup but can be helpful otherwise. https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Controls-Corporation-THP108-PowerBACK/dp/B003KREORA I have one and it does work although it is quite a bit louder than I'd prefer. My main panel is on the outside of our house and I have it mounted to the panel. We are rural on 5 acres and I can hear it from a couple of acres away... lol
I just took delivery of the generator and was thinking about this. I have neighbors and don’t want to run a generator any longer than I have to. I need some way of notifying me that my power has returned.
 

WWRD99

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I just took delivery of the generator and was thinking about this. I have neighbors and don’t want to run a generator any longer than I have to. I need some way of notifying me that my power has returned.
If you're worried about the genset being so loud it will bother the neighbors I don't think I'd worry about it much...they are pretty quiet...you can hear it but it's not crazy loud like a car revving its engine...only thing I'd add would be some kind of insulation between it and the concrete pad...I used the sidewalls from a few old tires...can't feel it vibrate in the ground since I did that.

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Buffalobwana

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If you're worried about the genset being so loud it will bother the neighbors I don't think I'd worry about it much...they are pretty quiet...you can hear it but it's not crazy loud like a car revving its engine...only thing I'd add would be some kind of insulation between it and the concrete pad...I used the sidewalls from a few old tires...can't feel it vibrate in the ground since I did that.

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Tractor Supply stall mats come to mind here.

Do you bolt your generator down? Or is it fine just sitting there?
 

WWRD99

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Tractor Supply stall mats come to mind here.

Do you bolt your generator down? Or is it fine just sitting there?
Stall matts... great idea!...mine sits on 2 birch logs since I'm close to a water pit! It is bolted to those though...not sure you need to bolt it to the concrete...they really can't move on their own...very heavy! Won't vibrate away or move at all...matts would just keep that ground vibration to a minimum...that bugged me a bit...to me it was worse than the engine running.

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Light in the Dark

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I just took delivery of the generator and was thinking about this. I have neighbors and don’t want to run a generator any longer than I have to. I need some way of notifying me that my power has returned.
803s purr along, if they complain its because they have nothing better to do, not because its loud.
 

MixManSC

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Agreed.... I recently got an 803A and it is incredibly quiet compared to most any civilian generator. You can literally stand right next to it and talk to someone without really even raising your voice much at all. Hence the name TQG - Tactical Quiet Generator.... They run at 1800 RPM instead of 3600 like 90% or more of the civilian ones made.
 

nextalcupfan

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+1 for how quiet the 803a's are, I was worried myself about how loud it would be.
After our first major outage I asked my neighbors, according to them they don't even know its running unless they go outside and look directly toward my house.

I should note my generator is in my backyard on one of the M116A2 trailers, and I have a privacy fence. However it seems the fence makes the sound echo so it might be worse?

There was someone running a civilian generator like a block away, that thing was so obnoxious you couldn't even hear the 803a haha.
 
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dav5

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Agreed.... I recently got an 803A and it is incredibly quiet compared to most any civilian generator. You can literally stand right next to it and talk to someone without really even raising your voice much at all. Hence the name TQG - Tactical Quiet Generator.... They run at 1800 RPM instead of 3600 like 90% or more of the civilian ones made.
I poured a good 6-8" pad with 2 " Sm insulation under it because of winter temps here. I set the gen directly on the pad with no stall mat. I left the d rings , exhaust flap, door hardware etc. It doesn't vibrate at all. I marked the skid position 4 years ago when I installed it and it hasn't moved even a mm [I'm in Canada EH]. I see all kinds of bases on here from crushed stone to logs to decks. My advise would be to forget anything but a proper poured pad.
 

nextalcupfan

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I just remembered I took some measurements with my phone last month. (Free phone dB app so take this with a grain of salt)

Base dB ~60 dB
63dB 2 meters away
68dB standing at front panel
70dB standing at rear fuel filler
77dB door open

Measurements were taken at chest level (set is on a trailer)
Set was lightly loaded at the time (maybe 25-35%)
 

Abrant23

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It’s 100’ run. The wire is listed at $1500. I guess that’s where they are making their profit.
You could buy a 500’ roll of 2/0, 2/0, 2/0, 1 MHF for$1500 from Home Depot. That’s big enough cable to pull 125amps at 100’ with less than 3% voltage drop. And you’d have 400’ left over. Tell em to sharpen their pencil a bit on that wire or just go to your local electrical supply house and buy your own. They’ll sell you a cut to length piece for around $3 a foot.

****Edited after seeing that you’re being quoted 6/4 copper****

You could get away with 2, 2, 2, 4 MHF for that application. That’s running around $1.60 a foot these days. It’d be good for 70 amps at 100’ with less than 3% drop. You’re talking about $200 worth of wire here after taxes and such.
 
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Buffalobwana

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You could buy a 500’ roll of 2/0, 2/0, 2/0, 1 MHF for$1500 from Home Depot. That’s big enough cable to pull 125amps at 100’ with less than 3% voltage drop. And you’d have 400’ left over. Tell em to sharpen their pencil a bit on that wire or just go to your local electrical supply house and buy your own. They’ll sell you a cut to length piece for around $3 a foot.
I realized that’s the cost to run it, it’s not just the wire cost. That’s their money on this job.

My fat azz ain’t pulling this run. Up 2 story, across a hot attic, back down and through brick and hook up. Nah. They can do that. I’ll stick to just pouring the slab.
 

Buffalobwana

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I just remembered I took some measurements with my phone last month. (Free phone dB app so take this with a grain of salt)

Base dB ~60 dB
63dB 2 meters away
68dB standing at front panel
70dB standing at rear fuel filler
77dB door open

Measurements were taken at chest level (set is on a trailer)
Set was lightly loaded at the time (maybe 25-35%)
I have the generator in my garage now. I fired it up yesterday. Even in the garage I was impressed with how quiet it is.
 

Abrant23

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I realized that’s the cost to run it, it’s not just the wire cost. That’s their money on this job.

My fat azz ain’t pulling this run. Up 2 story, across a hot attic, back down and through brick and hook up. Nah. They can do that. I’ll stick to just pouring the slab.
Ahhh. That makes me feel better about it. If that was just the wire you were getting screwed!
 

WWRD99

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I realized that’s the cost to run it, it’s not just the wire cost. That’s their money on this job.

My fat azz ain’t pulling this run. Up 2 story, across a hot attic, back down and through brick and hook up. Nah. They can do that. I’ll stick to just pouring the slab.
Question about the amp/volt you're setting up for...are you going to setup for 120 or 240 volt genset output? The 240 setting gives around 52 amps vs the 105 amps at 110...makes a big difference in the wire size.

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Buffalobwana

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Question about the amp/volt you're setting up for...are you going to setup for 120 or 240 volt genset output? The 240 setting gives around 52 amps vs the 105 amps at 110...makes a big difference in the wire size.

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240/50a

I had considered wiring it for a 20kw/100a generator. It wouldn’t hurt. Labor is the same, how much more could the wire be? $200 more?

I have to talk to the electrician anyway. I’m going to ask.
 
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