Weird Steering Problem...

[JxxxOxxxE]

I'll try to keep this short....

Bobbed Deuce on 395 XML's. Had it for 3-4 years with no problems. Plenty of 55 mph cruises, everything fine...Never really off-roaded the truck. Never in mud or water...always the same tire pressure...

I got a call to help a guy out that was stuck. To get to the guy I had to get on some train tracks, drive down them, then off to get to him...Then the same to get back out....Large tires with no power steering and going over the tracks means I was fighting the steering bad...I dont recall if I had the transfer case locked in, but probably...


Once I get back off the tracks I can tell something is seriously wrong with the steering. It's very hard to turn left, and feels like it will skip, then whip the **** out of the steering wheel the opposite direction...On pavement, I really couldn't go over 7-10 MPH without losing control....Almost feels like the transfer case is still locked in while turning, but that wouldn't explain the issue going straight...? Its an air case...


Nothing looks bent. Alignment measures to be about 1/8" toed in. So i figure I screwed something in the steering box up...I get a new box and decided to split it before I put in to make it easier. After looking at the internals of the new box, I figured I surely chipped the worm gear or broke the nub off that rides on the gear...


I get the box open in the truck, and it appears fine. Nothing broke chipped or bent...Pitman arm isn't stripped...So i've got new bushings and a seal for it as it was leaking a little...I didn't try any box adjustment before I split it. Surely there couldn't have been enough play for it to jump over the worm gear?


Now I am at a standstill here. I still have the box split in the truck...


I did notice with the front jacked up off the ground, the front tires aren't spinning like an open differential, but they arent spinning like they are quite locked either...They spin the same direction, then slip a little, then spin more...The rear act like a true open in that they spin opposite directions...Maybe I snapped something in the front axle???


The only thing I can find that probably needs replacing is there is a bit of play in the driver side wheel bearing. I honestly cant imagine that causing this problem though....


Any suggestions or ideas? Concentrate on the front axle?

 

[USAFSS-ColdWarrior]

opcorn: I'm looking forward to input on this thread too.

I know of a Deuce near here that has front axle problems that sound very similar to what's described above...
When it's front axle is air-engaged it drives fine going straight, but when turning it'll YANK the steering wheel violently toward the forward (neutral or straight) position again!
My early thoughts were in the knuckles/universals at the axle ends, or something amiss inside the pumpkin. I have not drive or seen the truck, nor have I gotten into the TMs (since I hadn't yet done a visual inspection to narrow the problem down some).

What say you?

 

[RAYZER]

I say pull the inspection cover on the diff and have a look!

 

[rustystud]

This happens with the front disengaged ? Then I would check to see if you didn't break an axle, or a side gear/spider gear. I would take off the axle caps on the front wheels and try and drive it and see if there is any difference. This way you can either eliminate the front axle as a problem or it is the problem.

 

[welldigger]

If both tires spin the same direction when you spin one by hand I would say the spider gears locked up somehow. The reason the steering sucks is the outside tire in a turn wants to spin faster than the inside tire. So if each tire is locked together, such as a locked diff, it only wants to roll strait.

Pull the bearing caps in the center of the hubs and drive it. I bet the steering goes back to normal.

 

[gringeltaube]

to what Rustystud and Welldigger said.

The spider(cross) and -gears appear to be a weak link in these diffs.
I never broke one of mine but sold quite a few replacement sets to customers, here.



G.

 

[Jeepsinker]

They weren't designed to run that large of a tire on. Put more stress on the components and they will fail.

 

[Clay James]

Both my trucks with the front locked will pull the wheel side to side while turning. I just figured that's how they were with the manual steering.

 

[Jeepsinker]

They are. Any 4x4 will do the same. That is not his problem.

 

[Scar59]

They weren't designed to run that large of a tire on. Put more stress on the components and they will fail.

Big tires play **** on the steering box, that will fail next.

 

[JxxxOxxxE]

Little update....got the box back together, new bushings, new seal, new gasket...

Pulled just one side axle cap, and sure enough the steering now seems fine.....


So now onto the differential, seems like it would pretty much have to be something with the spider gears. The wheels aren't directly locked together, there is some play back and forth between them. I didn't open it to look inside yet, or drain any fluid....

Big tires play **** on the steering box, that will fail next.

I've seen alot of people say this. For the people that havent ever opened one of the steering boxes up, they are very simple. Really only contains 2 main parts...



When/if the box fails, what usually breaks? the worm gear? or the teeth that ride in it? From all my previous searching, I dont think I saw anyone that actually posted a pic of either broken piece...

 

[rustystud]

Little update....got the box back together, new bushings, new seal, new gasket...

Pulled just one side axle cap, and sure enough the steering now seems fine.....


So now onto the differential, seems like it would pretty much have to be something with the spider gears. The wheels aren't directly locked together, there is some play back and forth between them. I didn't open it to look inside yet, or drain any fluid....








I've seen alot of people say this. For the people that havent ever opened one of the steering boxes up, they are very simple. Really only contains 2 main parts...



When/if the box fails, what usually breaks? the worm gear? or the teeth that ride in it? From all my previous searching, I dont think I saw anyone that actually posted a pic of either broken piece...

What usually fails is the bearings. When they go they allow way to much play and the steering is all over the place.

 

[10Lugger]

What usually fails is the bearings. When they go they allow way to much play and the steering is all over the place.

Yes! Then it can seize in an instant.

 

[gringeltaube]

When/if the box fails, what usually breaks? the worm gear? or the teeth that ride in it? From all my previous searching, I dont think I saw anyone that actually posted a pic of either broken piece...

What usually fails (first) has been shown in this post...
(The bearings themselves were still in acceptable condition...)

And here is why this part has failed... once.




G.

 

[frank8003]

I have a good one on the bench.
Do you want pictures of a good one?

 

[rustystud]

What usually fails (first) has been shown in this post...
(The bearings themselves were still in acceptable condition...)

And here is why this part has failed... once.
.




G.

Not to be a stick in the mud Gringeltaube but those are bearings (tapered rollers to be precise). You also cannot buy them separately anymore. You must buy the whole sector shaft assembly.

 

[JxxxOxxxE]

update...


got the front axle out...

just draining the fluid I could hear the chunks...Here's what I've got...





What a mess....


Wheres the best place to buy a spider gear setup and gasket/seal kit?

 

[Woodsplinter]

Wow- that is a mess! Wish I could help but I'm sure somebody else will.

Keep us updated- some of us rarely ever get to see something like that.

 

[rustystud]

The carrier is junk as is (of course) the side gears and spyder gears. With this much damage there is a good chance the "Bull gear" and "Drive Bull Gear" have taken damage along with their bearings. At this point I would look for another pumpkin unit.

 

[JxxxOxxxE]

Just to update foe future reference....A member here messaged me and had a complete bull gear/spider gears assembly.

Obviously that was the problem, its back on the road now...