Westfolk's Steel Oil Spin On Adapters

[Recovry4x4]

I'm confused. ODiron's kit uses a new remote filter mount, but reuses the stock (cut-down) filter housings? Is that right?

That is correct! Cutting them down reduces the amount of oil that can drain back to the very minimum. As long as filters are mounted upside down, a certain amount of oil will drain back. There are bad things that come with every mod though. With this one, the oil doesn't go back in the pan as the military designed it. The design was to keep the oil warm via heater, in sub zero environments. Here is the bad news. The bases used in the ODI kit are no longer being produced. Until another base can be sourced, the kits can't be completed.

 

[JasonS]

With this one, the oil doesn't go back in the pan as the military designed it. The design was to keep the oil warm via heater, in sub zero environments.

Are there any references or justification for the idea that the military WANTED the oil to drain back? In normal designs (this one too) the oil can simply bypass the oil filters. Design flaws do happen.......

 

[Recovry4x4]

Cranetruck did quite a bit of research on just this subject. I don't know what his source is/was but I do trust his research.

 

[JasonS]

Cranetruck did quite a bit of research on just this subject. I don't know what his source is/was but I do trust his research.

If I recall correctly, he indicated that it was speculation. It would be interesting to see if any of the SAE papers address this.

 

[militarysteel]

the military wanted drain back, so its easier on the starter, batteries and alternator, when its colder out, the main and rod bearings are beefy, besides the crank shaft is the first place oil pressure goes, probably before the engine even starts oil pressure is where it needs to be, nobody has proven that spin on, or anti drain back has helped the multifuel last longer. i do throw some lucas in however with stock filters, allows parts to remain oily/slippery for longer.

 

[JasonS]

the military wanted drain back, so its easier on the starter, batteries and alternator, when its colder out, the main and rod bearings are beefy, besides the crank shaft is the first place oil pressure goes, probably before the engine even starts oil pressure is where it needs to be, nobody has proven that spin on, or anti drain back has helped the multifuel last longer. i do throw some lucas in however with stock filters, allows parts to remain oily/slippery for longer.

There are bypass valves for both the filters and the cooler. Heated oil from the pan can circulate right around cold oil in the filter OR cooler. Practically speaking, the drain back PROLONGS the time for oil to reach critical areas and is a prime reason cited for adding the spin on adapters. It is well understood that oil pressure typically comes well AFTER the multi starts. While I haven't seen any A/B testing to prove that the multi lasts longer with the spin on filters, I have to believe that operation without oil pressure is detrimental to engine life.

Unless somebody has something in writing as verification, it's wild speculation at best and complete BS at worst.

 

[DUG]

Was the multi designed to mil specs or just something off the shelf? I thought it was an old tractor motor design. Did the gov have a spec sheet of items they wanted, such as 24 volt system, drainback filters, etc, etc ??

 

[bassetdeuce]

Was the multi designed to mil specs or just something off the shelf? I thought it was an old tractor motor design. Did the gov have a spec sheet of items they wanted, such as 24 volt system, drainback filters, etc, etc ??

I thought that it was gov specd, and developed by Continental, then eventually used in the White tractor line on one model.

 

[Katahdin]

Was the multi designed to mil specs or just something off the shelf? I thought it was an old tractor motor design. Did the gov have a spec sheet of items they wanted, such as 24 volt system, drainback filters, etc, etc ??

The article in the thread below mentions some of the early design work and testing. No oil pressure info, but the oil gallery design is important for multifuel use.

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce/45646-1963-popular-mechanics-article.html

 

[JasonS]

A reasonable argument can be made that if the military thought that drain back was a great feature, they'd have specified it on other vehicles/ equipment. Is there anything else which has this "feature"? The early gasoline trucks did not nor did their civilian counterpart. Does the Cat in the A3? How about the Mack or Cummins in the 5 tons? Is there anything in the civilian market?

 

[cjtroutt]

Military though 6 second in battle.

 

[merlot566jka]

I have the same kit. Although I had to spend 3 hours with a file to get the threads on the adaptors to actually screw into the filter base and the filters. Crappy quality on those pieces, everything else was fine.

I didnt think I would ever hear"don the coveralls" here... nice one Chief.....

 

[westfolk]

Crappy quality on those pieces, everything else was fine

Guys who put the fittings in backwards all have the same problem. That's why they should be put in correctly, per instructions.

The engine side is 1"-14 thread. The filter side 1"-12 thread. As you can see the threads are close to each other, but not the same. You can put them in backwards with effort. The threads take a hit as a result.

No one who has installed them correctly has had a problem.

The quality is fine until they are destroyed by improper installation.

 

[kennys@wi.rr.com]

I just installed the Oil and Primary filter kits on another members deuce. Took about 1.5 hours to do both. Took so long because the fuel lines were rather stuck in the old filter head. after getting out the ould mount the new primary mount went in real easy. I had to slightly adjust the fuel supply line to get it in the fitting but that was still pretty easy.

I read some complaints about the oil filter adapters and I can see what went wrong. If you put the red painted end into the engine side it will cross thread and and be a real pain to put in. Then when you go to put on the filter it will be just as bad on the filter. I would be concerned if I was someone who put it in wrong that now will the oil and debry seep past the filter element through the threads that were screwed up. It really pays to follow directions and if it feels tight stop and look at what you are doing. Everything went to gether real easy for me and torqued right down to the 55lbs. I think TBM-35, the owner of this truck, will be very happy with it.

 

[clinto]

Are there any references or justification for the idea that the military WANTED the oil to drain back? In normal designs (this one too) the oil can simply bypass the oil filters. Design flaws do happen.......

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/62756-post15.html

 

[kennys@wi.rr.com]

I finished the install of the Secondary fuel filters this afternoon. Again the mount just bolted right on. If I was to do it again one thing I would do different is to install line number 2 before I bolt the mount to the block. I had to remove the check valve to tighten the line. Another thing that may make it easier is if the heater wasn't in the truck. All told to change the oil, change the filters to spin ons and bypass the FDC it took a bit over 3 hours. Without question the oil filters were the easiest to change, just make sure the gaskets are down all the way. At first there is a spot that will bow up until you run your finger around it. As he states in the video make sure there is one drain hole at the 6 o'clock position and torque it down to 55 lbs. And remember the RED painted end of the fitting does not go into the block.

After doing this upgrade for another member I may just have to do it for myself. If anyone has any questions about these please feel free to ask. I'm no expert, but I just did it and it's fresh in my mind.

 

[JasonS]

http://www.steelsoldiers.com/62756-post15.html

Still a lot of hearsay. I resepctively disagree with a number of the points outlined.

 

[joshuaz223]

fake chief

he wasn't really a chief for three reasons.

1. no cigarette hanging from his mouth.
2. no coffee cup in his hand.
3. he was actually working.

those were CPO coveralls though. perfectly clean after all those years.

Roy Andrews FCC(SW)

 

[swampzr2]

I was wondering how the changing of these filters would be since they are upsidedown and are anti-drain back. For those of you that have changed the filters on this kit, are you punching a hole in the top???? I don't understand how

"most of the oil trapped in the filter will migrate back through the filter media and you won't have much of a spill to clean up."

Can someone shed some light on this for me?

Ok, fellas with the kits, riddle me this: If I let my truck sit overnight before I change the canister oil filters, there is really no mess to it. Unfortunately, pressure does take a long time to build on cold starts. If I put on a spin-on filter kit, with anti-drainback valves, there will be almost instant oil pressure, but now no matter how long I wait, isn't changing upside-down filters that are full of oil going to be quite messy?? If I turn the filters from my truck upside down, they immediately dump oil all over, and I'm pretty sure they have an anti-drainback valve.

Just curious.
C

Just punch a hole through the top of the filter cans and wait at least a few hours, most of the oil trapped in the filter will migrate back through the filter media and you won't have much of a spill to clean up. Warm up the engine (oil) first, and the longer you wait the better results you will have.

 

[Speedwoble]

If the flow is not adequate you'd see a drop in oil pressure.

The Duece has a 15 psi check valve internal to the engine. If you have inadequate flow capacity causing more than 15 PSI pressure drop at the filter, it will bypass via the internal check valve. Peak flow occurs at peak RPM. Do you know what your pressure is at peak RPM and different temperatures? Would you notice a 15psi change?