What year FMTV to purchase? A0/A1/A1R?

[Givinup]

Hope everyone is doing well. I've been obsessing over overland/expo vehicles for the past several years. After overcoming some health issues, and saving up enough money, I'm preparing to take begin the build. I estimate it'll take 6-9 months to complete, so would like to purchase by Oct 15th, to be ready for mid summer trip. I want to get some guidance, based on a little bit of back ground. I don't plan on being in the bush for months at a time, but would like to disappear from all signs of human life with my Wife for up to 2 weeks at a time to push the reset button after stressful work contracts.

For work I do project leads for groups of several hundred and many tasks concurrently. I work 6 days a week, 12 - 14 hour shifts. The money is decent, but seemingly not worth it most of the time (seems common in life..). I've saved up enough to make a nice rig, but nowhere near unicat, earthroamer etc status. I have budgeted 30k for the rig and 50k for the camper, understanding there's a 12-15% fudge factor in there. I say this just to share I feel comfortable enough to manage the labor, independent trades etc to perform the applicable work. [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Based on the number of hours I work, and the fact I'm not a mechanic or great handyman, and I don't prefer to tinker beyond what I have to. I can do interior work, sound proof etc, but I don't prefer and don't have a shop to do diesel work etc. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Early on I laughed at the idea of an FMTV for my rig, based on the interior and top speed/comfort. After researching over the past several months, I am drawn to them based on their overbuilt factor, money to material, etc. If I can acquire an FMTV for under $18k (seems very doable based on govplanet prices and shipping estimates) I estimate I can hire a diesel mechanic to check/replace air lines, fluids, overall maintenance, trouble shoot, make road worthy, etc. Ive read of a few suggested individuals from SS to swap the axles or pumpkins (if available) for higher speed, and redo the interior within budget. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]What I'm now left to decide, is which model year or spec M1083/M1088 to look for? With a mechanical overhaul to the truck (within reason, not a full resto by any means); high speed axles, and interior sound proofing, air ride seats, new seals, AC, etc; is the A1, A1R, A0 all that important? From my understanding the A0's were fixed for their initial problems to meet most A1 standards. [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Is there a reliability factor to consider in the different model years? What about breakdowns, preventative/regular maintenance, service while away etc? [/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]I would imagine the diamond in the rough would be a BAE repurchased/remanufactured A1 (rare).[/FONT]


Real world opinions/info from FMTV past, present owners would be much appreciated.


Thanks for everyone's time.


-Bob

 

[utahpow]

Bob -

I'm going through something similar. My thoughts on the selection of the vehicle starts with a question: what's your end design going to look like and what do you want terrain do you need it for?

- Do you want a 4x4 or a 6x6?
- Do you want an extended frame from the start or is the shorter the better?
- Do you want a regular motor, or with a heavy camper on the back or desire to tow something on the back think that a larger engine might be required?
- Do you want everything mechanical instead of electrical?
- I'm sure I'm leaving out 20 other questions, but you get the idea.

As you read through other posts on this board and also Expedition Portal, you'll get a sense of what others are doing, how, why, and start building your "I want this type of vehicle for these reasons" list, a bit more detailed than what you have above.

I started with my needs in the camper box, found designs, have some idea of a desired length of the box, researched panel vendors, some costs, and such, and then have whittled down the number of FMTV's I'm looking at.

This board has been super great for those technical questions on FMTVs. I've already bookmarked a ton of posts and even spoken with kind members who have taken time for a call. You'll see some great threads, and I can post some here if you don't stumble on them yourself.

Have a look at this website for FTMV variations and read the PDF brochures to get lengths, weight, etc.

Some great advice that I received on this board was to buy and read "Build your own overland camper" by Steve Wigglesworth, and "Motorhome self-build and optimization" by Ulrich Dolde. Super good reads.

I'm looking forward to the responses you get. Followed!

 

[Suprman]

I have a BAE M1088A1. In classifieds in NM currently.

 

[mkcoen]

Remember you're talking 55mph on flat ground and considerably less on hills. Why a FMTV? If you're going to be out for 2 weeks max at a time there are many commercial, off road capable RVs, especially in the Class C range, that would be comfortable enough for that short period of time. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a true "expedition" vehicle so why go to all the expense and time to get something that's slow as a turtle and not going to be that nice to vacation in?

Don't get me wrong, I love my LMTV but I know it's limitations. My expo vehicle is a Nissan Titan with a RTT. While I might be more comfortable in a bigger vehicle with a bed and shower it's not going to be able to go places I want to go. If I wanted bigger, more luxuriouos digs I'd get a 4x4 Class C. I'd then be somewhat limited due to width and height but still go more places than the LMTV could go due to the same, only larger, restrictions - add a 3rd axle for the MTV and the additional length and you're restricted more.

I agree you need to go to Expedition Portal and look at the section on FMTV type vehicles. Count all the threads that have been started with people doing exactly what you want to do and then count how many of them gave up and went in a different direction, in some cases after having spent untold thousands in upgrades over SEVERAL years of working on them. It's not as simple as buying a truck and slapping a box on the back of it.

 

[NDT]

Look over the GP past auction results (search M1078, M1083, M1083A1, etc) for what is out there and what is cost at auction. Try to get a '98 or newer with the WTEC 3 transmission. If you want a winch, buy a truck with one on it already.

 

[Givinup]

Bob -

I'm going through something similar. My thoughts on the selection of the vehicle starts with a question: what's your end design going to look like and what do you want terrain do you need it for?

- Do you want a 4x4 or a 6x6?
- Do you want an extended frame from the start or is the shorter the better?
- Do you want a regular motor, or with a heavy camper on the back or desire to tow something on the back think that a larger engine might be required?
- Do you want everything mechanical instead of electrical?
- I'm sure I'm leaving out 20 other questions, but you get the idea.

As you read through other posts on this board and also Expedition Portal, you'll get a sense of what others are doing, how, why, and start building your "I want this type of vehicle for these reasons" list, a bit more detailed than what you have above.

I started with my needs in the camper box, found designs, have some idea of a desired length of the box, researched panel vendors, some costs, and such, and then have whittled down the number of FMTV's I'm looking at.

This board has been super great for those technical questions on FMTVs. I've already bookmarked a ton of posts and even spoken with kind members who have taken time for a call. You'll see some great threads, and I can post some here if you don't stumble on them yourself.

Have a look at this website for FTMV variations and read the PDF brochures to get lengths, weight, etc.

Some great advice that I received on this board was to buy and read "Build your own overland camper" by Steve Wigglesworth, and "Motorhome self-build and optimization" by Ulrich Dolde. Super good reads.

I'm looking forward to the responses you get. Followed!

Hope everyone is having a good day. Thank you for the quick responses. (I suppose I should've mentioned this in my first post, as it's worthwhile info... )

I have to log my time for work, so I get used to logging time for everything, keeps me aware of effectiveness. I have spent 1,049.25 hours over the past 4 years researching this topic, gathering ideas etc etc. You could classify me as a grade A lurker on Expo forums. Most of the time I can't post due to work restrictions.




Please see the answers to some questions below. I hope this doesn't put off any other responses or info. I greatly appreciate and need the questions asked/answered.


I want 6x6 to handle weight of box, stability, and ability on/off roads. Airing down and having 4 wheels in rear will be helpful. Extra length in WB will help with any frame extension and loads.


Shorter isn't better, but neither is super long. I'm looking at total length between 28-34' (depending on rear haul, box, etc). An M1086 is too long. M1083 or M1088 seem to be best chassis so far I've found. M1088 seems to have better rear setup after 5th wheel removal.


I want the box attached to a subframe on the rear of the truck (either 3 or 4 point based on cost and install available). Best setup I've seen so far is similar to BlissMobil. Their boxes are fully enclosed, which I like. Unfortunately their price has elevated significantly since their introduction. A 20' box is in the 270-320k range....noooo thank you. I do not want to tow any vehicles behind the rig, but would consider a frame extension up the rig to support a toy hauler deck (depends on cost addition and potential). I'll detail the box info in another post within this thread.


Mechanical/Electrical? Don't know yet, but hoping to find answers during this thread. I've read on mechanical is the preferred/easier way to go. I don't know the overall best route as this is debated in a number of forums. Mechanical is surely easier to fix, but have the advancements in the FMTV chassis over the A0/A1/A1R platforms been enhanced beyond the electrical components? -- If I'm having the vehicle overhauled at least within reason, what improvements will an A0 lack assuming cab is rehauled, etc etc.


Thanks for the reply. I'd love to hear more of your plans for your FMTV/rig.

 

[Givinup]

Look over the GP past auction results (search M1078, M1083, M1083A1, etc) for what is out there and what is cost at auction. Try to get a '98 or newer with the WTEC 3 transmission. If you want a winch, buy a truck with one on it already.

I've browsed GP everyday for the past 3 months, now that I am prepping for purchase mode. Why do you recommend the WTEC 3?

 

[Givinup]

Remember you're talking 55mph on flat ground and considerably less on hills. Why a FMTV? If you're going to be out for 2 weeks max at a time there are many commercial, off road capable RVs, especially in the Class C range, that would be comfortable enough for that short period of time. It doesn't sound like you're looking for a true "expedition" vehicle so why go to all the expense and time to get something that's slow as a turtle and not going to be that nice to vacation in?

Don't get me wrong, I love my LMTV but I know it's limitations. My expo vehicle is a Nissan Titan with a RTT. While I might be more comfortable in a bigger vehicle with a bed and shower it's not going to be able to go places I want to go. If I wanted bigger, more luxuriouos digs I'd get a 4x4 Class C. I'd then be somewhat limited due to width and height but still go more places than the LMTV could go due to the same, only larger, restrictions - add a 3rd axle for the MTV and the additional length and you're restricted more.

I agree you need to go to Expedition Portal and look at the section on FMTV type vehicles. Count all the threads that have been started with people doing exactly what you want to do and then count how many of them gave up and went in a different direction, in some cases after having spent untold thousands in upgrades over SEVERAL years of working on them. It's not as simple as buying a truck and slapping a box on the back of it.

If you all haven't noticed, I will need to read about how to reply multiple quotes within the same post, and within the same question...

I would switch the axles to the meritor MRAP axles to allow for 60-70mph cruise, with lower RPMs. That being said, I'm a pretty big safety nut, so I'll cruise at 60-65 tops. Not having the truck at WOT all day will be nice though. -- Based on the budget, I'd like to add a locker to the rear, if money allows.

As to the question of why-- I suppose the space, cost to acquire an FMTV, and I don't ever want to have to 'go back' or turnaround on a road/trail. I am driven by the question in my head of 'whats over the next ridge'. I could always get out and walk it, but would prefer to arrive, park and camp there. The point of the box and rig is to camp in comfort, and have access to awesome day hikes/quick over night trips. My Wife's hiking pace isn't the same as mine, this'll give us access to awesome trails, without multi day hikes.

I've looked at International chassis, among others, and spoken with Tulsa Truck mfg on a frame extension or 6x6/6x4 conversion. Based on the costs, no COE, less visability, etc it seems that I'd be in a vehicle like this for 6-10k more $$ than an FMTV with high speed axles, new cab interior (new seats, sound proof, fabrics)(would be applied to either truck)(not new tech necessarily), and preventative maintenance performed. If I'm wrong though, I'd love to be pointed in a better direction.

If it exists (and isn't an online dream), I'd like to travel in this vehicle to places my Wife and I won't see another person for the length of our trip, if desired. Work won't allow for 1+month long excursions. I imagine the first trip up to Colo/Idaho/Canada etc will be one of the last times the rig is in Oklahoma. I'll then find an RV storage spot, EP forum member to rent space from, or other to store the vehicle when not in use. This will cut travel time on hwy at least to some degree, maximizing 'escape' time.

 

[Floridianson]

You better figure on the extra cost of a AC system and additional insulation under the cab plus in the cab. I wish I had never bought my MTV.

 

[Suprman]

Out of all my military trucks my LMTVS are by far my favorite.

 

[NDT]

I've browsed GP everyday for the past 3 months, now that I am prepping for purchase mode. Why do you recommend the WTEC 3?

Although discontinued, there is still service and support available for the WTEC III.

 

[mkcoen]

Out of all my military trucks my LMTVS are by far my favorite.

Mine as well but I keep it within 100 miles from home. If I want to go on vacation I want to GET there and enjoy it. The LMTV is a great toy but beyond that it's a money pit and the only reason I'm willing to get that far away from home is because I have great tow coverage on my insurance.

 

[Givinup]

Mine as well but I keep it within 100 miles from home. If I want to go on vacation I want to GET there and enjoy it. The LMTV is a great toy but beyond that it's a money pit and the only reason I'm willing to get that far away from home is because I have great tow coverage on my insurance.

Do you mind sharing the issues you have with your lmtv and year/model? This'll help me as a narrow down my selection.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[mkcoen]

Do you mind sharing the issues you have with your lmtv and year/model? This'll help me as a narrow down my selection.

The issue is that it's a poorly or overly designed vehicle that was used/abused by 19 year old military drivers. The military mechanics are not trained in diagnosing problems they're trained to find out what part isn't working and replace that part and hope it then fixes the truck. Mine for example had a wire pulled out of the loom that was grounding out and frying the shift pad. After they replaced a couple of the shift pads and kept frying them they just turned it in to be sold. After the loose wire was located and fixed (by NDT - thank you sir for your tremendous work) that aspect was fine. Then I had the fan clutch grenade on me going down the road at 55mph sending shards through the radiator resulting in an $850 tow bill. After that there were issues with sticky solenoids keeping the fan from kicking on causing the truck to overheat all the time, the cost of adding AC, tire availability, parts not related to CAT or ALLISON availability, practically all of the air components on the brakes having rubber diaphrams that start sticking and leaving you without brakes when one of those little rubber sheets decides to tear so not functioning properly.

Now put yourself out where there isn't anyone around for days but you and your wife and cell phone coverage is just an ephemeral dream and have something like one of these items happen. Can you conceivably fix the problem yourself? How far are you going to have to walk to get cell coverage to call for a tow truck and then will one big enough to handle a MTV come to get you for less than the cost of the truck itself? Do you like hiking in the desert? Because a 3 axle MTV sitting as high as it does (plus add a taller habitat on back) is not going to go through any woodland trails - Forest Service Roads? yes. Narrow, rough cut logging roads? - NO!

You're looking at buying a used and abused vehicle so year/model doesn't really matter.

My suggestion would, at a minimum, find someone close to you with a MTV and go drive for about 20 miles. Determine if it's really a truck you want to try and turn in to the end product you're thinking of. I'd still say you're looking at a couple years to complete such a project unless you just want to give the truck to a builder and throw money at it.

 

[Suprman]

It's definetly not a Toyota. The newer ones are a bit more reliable. Still need significant regular maintenance if you are depending on it for long road trips. Several members have gone on several thousand mile trips in theirs. It falls on ymmv.

 

[TNriverjet]

There are probably members closer to you, but drop me a line if you ever get to Nashville and you can go for a ride in the 1083. I definitely like the 290 Hp tune over what's in the 4x4 trucks.

 

[Givinup]

It's definetly not a Toyota. The newer ones are a bit more reliable. Still need significant regular maintenance if you are depending on it for long road trips. Several members have gone on several thousand mile trips in theirs. It falls on ymmv.

Is there a Toyota like reliable chassis to consider in the same or similar price range as an fmtv?

Are there any common factors of the members who have had good experiences with their truck and the times between issues?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

 

[Givinup]

You better figure on the extra cost of a AC system and additional insulation under the cab plus in the cab. I wish I had never bought my MTV.

Definitely will need Ac, sound proofing and better heat shielding on the underside roof and exterior, sound mat and deadening on the interior, layered by carpet and foam and soft to the touch interior. New seals on door and windows.

I used to flip diesel trucks (Ford 350 & 450s) and we'd switch out XL interiors and put in king ranch interiors for customers that requested it. There are some good interior shops around here I plan to use.

Mechanical work is another thing to figure out.

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[Givinup]

There are probably members closer to you, but drop me a line if you ever get to Nashville and you can go for a ride in the 1083. I definitely like the 290 Hp tune over what's in the 4x4 trucks.

Thanks for the offer. I'd love to check out your 1083 if I'm ever in the area.

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[Suprman]

Nothing in this size and capacity is going to be any more reliable anywheres near lmtv price range. If you don't mind a stick shift I have seen some nice unimogs online. Not cheap and they come with their own set of issues. The military had good luck with the a1 lmtvs. A lot of the bad rep they have came from very early trucks, and it did take a few years to work thru the kinks, and young mechanics inability to troubleshoot. The drivetrain in general is reliable the stuff is commercially proven. There are a lot of little things you have to go thru even on a super clean truck. I am still learning more stuff to check on these trucks all the time. The fan clutch issue you can usually check for play. There is a newer model fan clutch made now. It does happen though. There are a good amount of these trucks in commercial service now. Logging, farm and construction companies along with fire departments have been using the surplus trucks for some time now with good results.