Winch/crane on M35A3

[Jbulach]

I may be missing what your talking about but would these help?Weld on lift arm ball sockets, I’ve used them on several fun projects before...

 

[tobyS]

I may be missing what your talking about but would these help?View attachment 718074Weld on lift arm ball sockets, I’ve used them on several fun projects before...

Sure, that would work. Do you have a surplus of them? How wide or what size pipe are they designed for?

 

[Jbulach]

They are replacement tractor 3-point lift arm ends. You should be able to find them at any farm supply stores, they are available in several different sizes, and reasonably priced.

 

[tobyS]

Sure, local farm store or I'll go on line.

 

[Jbulach]

Yep, all kinds pop up searching “weld on lift arm end” on Amazon and ebay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[tobyS]

Yep, all kinds pop up searching “weld on lift arm end” on Amazon and ebay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just wondering about class 2 or 3. Google brought up some 3 for about $14.00 but I'm not sure I want that big of pin. Class 2 will probably be right for my project.

I'd like the boom(s) to be nice and long but that make stowage or removal more difficult, without tube in tube extension or folding forward over the headache rack.

 

[red]

The pulley at the end of the bed is for controlling the gin pole as it's raised/lowered.

As far as the hing pivots go, the ones I've seen use 2 pivots at the base per leg. One to pivot up/down, the other to let it pivot side/side. Like the towbar feet for example.

To split the legs and store them along each bed side works well on the smaller/lighter pickup setups where each leg doesn't weight a whole lot. With these bigger setups the legs get too heavy to manually handle fast. Maybe build a headache rack over the cab that the legs will rest on. When the gin pole is not needed detach them from each other up there on the headache rack and just slide them to each side.

 

[tobyS]

I'm not liking the LMTV bed for this 4x4 project. It's longer than the OEM bed. I'm not cutting the frame shorter and I hope to do away with the large rear overhang, remove the bumper-etts and keep the rear axle toward the rear, (nearly) in it's original position. That brings me back to wanting an M105 bed. Then I would have about 26" between the bed and cab to work with for a crane/winch or ??

 

[gimpyrobb]

Maybe we could do some trading as I have a nice M105 and I liked that 1101 you had.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Jbulach and Red,
Great suggestions, I was leaning towards this

As I have a few laying around from a rock crawler I built awhile ago, but thought that the Teflon inserts would deform under load a hiem joint is a better. and lots less! Having a second pivot is an easy answer. The gin pole I want to build would lift a max of 3,000lbs (think 8.3/Allison combo) of course once you have something like this you get alot of "friends" in need...LOL!!!

Toby, the plan for my truck is leaving the rear rear axle in the same place (which Bob and Irish suggested in having the axle as far back as possible...I just like where the axle was on the COE so I am happy with that location) and trim a bed to 8'11&15/16" (to be "compliant" sadly) I do not need to go as big a gin pole as you as I see it only for engine/tranny removal, but will have 15' of extended length. This leaves me with enough room for an "extra cab" and spare tire and super davit.

I think if you used the M105 bed you would cut a section out of the rear behind the wheel well and add it to the front.

Just brainstorming..

 

[tobyS]

Maybe we could do some trading as I have a nice M105 and I liked that 1101 you had.

I have to think on that Chris, I cut it down to take the S-788 Geithner shelter (sitting in my way) and I have altered the hitch to fit my 2 5/16" ball. I't would make a good welder trailer too.

If you want, Pm me a price to buy the 105 outright. You know I bought the 1101 right, but I've put a lot into fitting it to the S788. Thanks.


Chris, on the 105 hub, I may want to put the A3 wheel with 14.5R20 on the M105 but with the dish out. On the deuce you would "flip" them. That would give a narrower mounting surface, but position bearings in relation to the tire center....to run with the dish out. Dish out on the M105 would appear to work by mounting the wheel back at the brake drum, machining off the outer wheel mount. Longer bolts would hold drum/hub/wheel, reducing the face width (of the overall axle) and keeping the load where it should be for the bearings when using dish out A3 wheels?

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?10740-M105-hub

 

[red]

Jbulach and Red,
Great suggestions, I was leaning towards this
View attachment 718146
As I have a few laying around from a rock crawler I built awhile ago, but thought that the Teflon inserts would deform under load a hiem joint is a better. and lots less! Having a second pivot is an easy answer. The gin pole I want to build would lift a max of 3,000lbs (think 8.3/Allison combo) of course once you have something like this you get alot of "friends" in need...LOL!!!
Just brainstorming..

Ah didn't think about Heims. Depending on the angle needed for side/side movement with the legs (when connected together vs disassembled) a single heim at the bottom of each leg might be enough.

 

[tobyS]

I had to look up "heim" but it appears we are talking about the same thing...a ball and socket.

I have some new semi tie rod ends that might also work, but they have the shaft out one side (could go in a bed socket).

The only difference heim to the weld-on appears to be the threaded shaft (or size of ball). Of course, use what you have on hand, but the threaded part for adjustment would not be needed. I'm ordering the class 2 weld on.

 

[tobyS]

Plans seem to change by the minute. I've come full circle, back to using a shorter, narrower M105 bed for this 4x4 project and not using the LMTV bed. The LMTV is about 5-6" longer than the deuce bed and I want it shorter to the back of the frame.

A former donor M105 is about to donate the spring pack(s) for the rear of the A3. I thought it might not be as "heavy duty" as the front springs on my deuce but they are...both springs measure about 2.25" wide and the M105 has more leaves. The mounts off the side of the frame on the M105 seem just as heavy as the fronts on the deuce, so I see no reason not to use them.

Height is an issue. By my calculations, the rear mounts to the bottom of the frame need to be 3" or 4" lower if I remove a couple of the short leaves. I do not want height spacers on the axle. There is no real width issues for attaching the springs to the axle, so I'm going to run a plate up the side of the frame and reinforce it for several feet in front of the axle. I priced a piece of 5/16" plate (frame is 1/4") with a 90* break, making it 11 x 3. The outside will lap the frame and I can gusset the new piece all along the (bottom) length but especially near the suspension mounts.

Now the question remains, do I make it a dump bed for ease of pulling things up and dumping them out or just mount the bed solid Solid mount is a lot easier.

 

[tobyS]

Here is a link that I want to add. I came across it and thought it was relevant/good:

https://www.steelsoldiers.com/showthread.php?79908-Bobbed-Wrecker-concept

On another note, could we put a sticky together for making a 4x4 from the 6x6, like Clinto did a dump conversion?

 

[red]

Now the question remains, do I make it a dump bed for ease of pulling things up and dumping them out or just mount the bed solid Solid mount is a lot easier.

Depends on what you are going to load. Having the dump bed adds versatility but puts alot more strain on the dump hinges and as you mentioned complicates the design.

With a solid mounted bed you can install a roller at the end of the bed, like the pipeline deuce. If going this route then the cargo needs to have a strong enough platform (that it sits on) to be dragged from the ground up/over the roller and onto the bed. Theres a member on here with a video of doing this with a small shipping container onto his pipeline deuce.

Heres a pic of my setup off the back of my old m35a2 (scrapped out years ago). Note that the wooden platform did not last long.




If you go that route it's simpler to build and cheaper. I'm currently making a similar setup for my pickup's flatbed and using some scrap metal to build a skid that cargo can be secured to then loaded/unloaded with the winch/tail roller. Making the skid out of scrap frame rails from the old m51a2 and 2 metal pallets. Kind of ugly yes but (when complete) it will be strong and durable. Considering the abuse the skid will go through strength is more important than looks haha.

 

[tobyS]

Yes red, that roling surface helps pull things over i and it would be possible with a simple front of bed winch mount or a pipe jib. It would certainly work with the LMTV winch.

If you go to the link on post 55, at the very end is a boomcrane on a 4x4 that has caught my attention. The winch I have might be a bit big for boom mounting, but I have a supply of smaller diameter cylinders that could be doubled on a boom like an excavator main boom. It would be short but heavy, rotate about 300* (no hydraulic swivel) and have a rear boom support for serious rear pulling and to support it going down the road.

 

[gentrysgarage]

Check my channel!

Toby,
Check my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiUuhKuqb_jIllwP7Zp-jBw and see how I am using M105 spring hangers and G506 springs, Everyone seems to mount them 4" down, butI am going 5 as I want an easier installation...I will adjust the springs as needed.
Thanks Red for the ideas!

 

[tobyS]

Toby,
Check my youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCiUuhKuqb_jIllwP7Zp-jBw and see how I am using M105 spring hangers and G506 springs, Everyone seems to mount them 4" down, butI am going 5 as I want an easier installation...I will adjust the springs as needed.
Thanks Red for the ideas!

Watched them! I can't do video and have just learned to take pictures with an Ipad.

First comment is to go to Lennox metal cutting blades with very fine teeth and keep them oil lubricated as much as possible. I also use the 4 1/2" grinder with metal cutting blades a lot...and a smoke wrench. With the torch, I can do rather precise work with LP fuel and a clean tip.

My A3 frame has been reinforced in a few areas that yours hasn't. They all appear to be readily removable so I can reinforce the entire length of the frame, lapping against the side and having a 3" face at the desired height. That's about 8' that will be added to each side. My boomtruck has crane frame support like that added to the outside of the frame. I'll add a 5/16" plate with a 3" lip.


I'm not sitting level yet, nor do I have the bed off, but I measured that using the M105 side spring mount would require 3". I've also seen people say that it takes 4" or 5". I see the bracket bolts on to the new pieces you are putting in (3 x 5 tube). Did you make the distance 5" to make it bolt up without having the bolt hole at a joint? If I do 3" space, the bolt goes through both plate and frame, 4" interferes and 5" seems a bit much.

 

[gentrysgarage]

First comment is to go to Lennox metal cutting blades with very fine teeth and keep them oil lubricated as much as possible. I also use the 4 1/2" grinder with metal cutting blades a lot...and a smoke wrench. With the torch, I can do rather precise work with LP fuel and a clean tip.

Thanks I will try them

My A3 frame has been reinforced in a few areas that yours hasn't. They all appear to be readily removable so I can reinforce the entire length of the frame, lapping against the side and having a 3" face at the desired height. That's about 8' that will be added to each side. My boomtruck has crane frame support like that added to the outside of the frame. I'll add a 5/16" plate with a 3" lip.

I went with 3/16 cause that is the reinforcement on the front spring hanger and has held up since 1952 so I feel that is good.

I'm not sitting level yet, nor do I have the bed off, but I measured that using the M105 side spring mount would require 3". I've also seen people say that it takes 4" or 5". I see the bracket bolts on to the new pieces you are putting in (3 x 5 tube). Did you make the distance 5" to make it bolt up without having the bolt hole at a joint? If I do 3" space, the bolt goes through both plate and frame, 4" interferes and 5" seems a bit much.

There are alot of truck frame repair articles on the internet, but only the one that is copied on 2 different web pages is the best...can't find it right now, but I remember you don't want a hole within an inch from the bend...he said it would crack. thus I went with 5" so no holes are in the "danger zone". I will be running a brace inbetween the rear hangers. I am no engineer, If I have an original piece still on the truck I will copy the measurements, which I am doing with these hangers. This is what I am doing and the philosophy behind it...hope it helps.