Winch drum not turning?

[Seth_O]

I bought a Garwood winch from a reputable SS'er whom I trust. He had rebuilt the winch, but his wife preferred the deuce without it, so it got shelved. Some undisclosed amount of time later, I bought it (a year? several years?) I finally got around to installing it on my truck, and went for the first test run yesterday.

I pulled the drum lock out, and engaged the winch clutch (moved it to the 'IN' position) and then engaged the PTO from the cab.

No movement from the drum when powered in forward or reverse. PTO spins the shaft no problem. With the oil fill plug removed on the drivers side I see the gear turning slowly. Looks good.

I can spin the drum by hand, so I know it is free, but it doesn't seem to want to spin under power.

I've read the manuals; and many, many posts, but cant find anything like this. Any thoughts on what could be causing it? I'm ok with the answer being: "You skipped step X, you're an idiot....." In fact that would be a lot better than "You have a gear reversed in the housing, sorry. Take it all apart and try again...."

Any thoughts?

 

[jasonjc]

If the big brass gear is turning then it has to be the dog clutch on the other side. Its either broken or not in gauging right. Could be the shaft that in gauges the dog clutch.

 

[Gunzy]

The drum is not in freewheel is it?

 

[Seth_O]

The drum is not in freewheel is it?

I have engaged the drum clutch, i.e. moved the lever all the way to "In". Is there more to it than that?

 

[sed6]

I tested mine yesterday and also thought it wasn't working. Turns out it just spins much slower than I thought. I laid the hook end about 20' in front of the truck and had to run it 15-20 seconds before it tightened up the cable on the drum enough to actually move the hook end. Also the speed of the winch is a function of the engine RPM's. At idle it just creeps along maybe an inch a second. A little gas or the hand throttle will help speed things up. Perhaps you didn't give it enough time?

 

[jasonjc]

I have engaged the drum clutch, i.e. moved the lever all the way to "In". Is there more to it than that?

That "should do it" if all is right inside. See if it will free spool with it "engaged".

 

[212sparky]

Make sure it is "in" when I first used mine I thought it was in but was not. Had to move it a little farther to the "in" side.

 

[cattlerepairman]

I assume you moved that hinged flap to allow the clutch lever to move. Clutch lever can be loose on the shaft (or shaft can be twisted). When it is properly engaged, the drum no longer free-spools.
I assume you have a new shear pin that is intact, all the way through.

Did you check that the PTO is in fact engaged? What I mean is, the pto shaft can spin by friction when the PTO is "disengaged" - it just won't have any power. You can stop it by hand.
The PTO lever has distinct detents, but they are surprisingly close together and sometimes not easy to find right away.

 

[Seth_O]

All good comments guys, I appreciate it. To answer:

I have actioned the clutch lever thoroughly, including rolling the drum slightly and trying again.

Brand new shear pin.

I know the PTO is engaging. When its in neutral my shaft doesn't spin, even while revving the engine. When I put it in low it spins pretty quickly, in reverse it goes in the opposite direction.

When I engage the clutch lever, I can free spool the drum, but inside the winch housing (passenger side) it makes an unhealthy sounding clanking.

I fear I need to pull the winch and check the guts on the passenger side.

 

[m16ty]

I've encountered two winches with twisted engagement lever shafts. It throws the detents off and the dog clutch won't work properly.

The engagement lever is pretty fragile, never force it in or out. The shaft is relatively small compared to the leverage you can put out on the handle (especially with a hammer). I've seen many that were broken completely off, it usually breaks where the grove is cut for the set screw that holds the shaft in place.

 

[rosco]

With PTO disengaged, dog clutch out, can you pull out a little line, free wheeling? Do it, then have Soldier 2 stand clear, with you in cab on controls, & have him engage dog clutch with steady hand pressure, with winch in low, at idle. He should feel it engage. Otherwise, with all that has been covered, its sounding like "tear down" time. Good Luck -- let us know.

 

[m16ty]

Since the winch has supposedly recently rebuilt, it could be just assembled wrong.

It's been a while since I've been very deep into one but I seem to recall that it is possible to put the engagement fork backwards on the shaft. Maybe somebody else will chime in and confirm this.

 

[cattlerepairman]

, I can free spool the drum, but inside the winch housing (passenger side) it makes an unhealthy sounding clanking.

As Gringeltaube pointed out in another thread (I remember random things, it's a curse) if it clanks on the passenger side, twice per drum revolution, it is the dog clutch - it has two detents.

 

[Seth_O]

It clanks quite a bit, call it 15+ times per rotation. I also find that if I lean a little on the clutch (pulling it towards "In") then the drum locks up virtually instantly.

Is there any internal adjustment on the clutch?

 

[gringeltaube]

15 times per 1 drum rotation? No, that would be the drum lock pin not being fully retracted. Actually it's 12 holes in the drum side flange.
And no, there are no adjustments provided to the shift mechanism.

To refresh a bit our memory - this is how it looks like, in there... (2nd pair of pics)

You said this winch was rebuilt so I'm still guessing what could cause this issue, besides maybe a little rust from prolonged no-use and condensation, preventing the clutch to move freely as it should?

Where the shifter is now you may have the dog faces just contacting each other, nada mas... From that position the sliding clutch part needs to move IN another 3/4" approx. to be fully engaged; which is about 20º on the lever.

Remove the top plug and spray plenty of WD40 or something in there and rock the handle back and forth. Just make sure it isn't bent and interfering already with the housing...

Once the clutch moved fully IN the drum stays LOCKED to the drive mechanism. The dogs are "undercut" (slightly wedge- shaped) so you should actually feel some resistance on the lever to disengage the clutch while trying to turn the drum (by hand).

If not... you may have some work ahead... The first picture shows a clutch with a lot of wear. Same case, for the dogs on the drum itself. That can be fixed, or eventually new parts ordered.


See what you can find before tearing all apart. Post some pics from the lever, from different angles, so we can compare.




G.

 

[Seth_O]

Appreciate the inputs guys.

I shot a quick video this morning of the moving bits. Hopefully this helps diagnose. Having never owned/used a PTO winch before this is new to me. I am really hoping to avoid opening it up.

FYI - both sides are liberally lubricated with 00 grease.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/131867003@N07/shares/2yyBSd

 

[sed6]

Flickr requires me to login to view that video. Try YouTube.

 

[Bo1]

Flickr requires me to login to view that video. Try YouTube.

It opened right up for me.

 

[m1010plowboy]

Winch Key

I have a recently non-functioning winch on the old M135. This is the schematic for the G749 winches and I think CC, 'key', somehow slipped out. This one came out of the drain-hole when we pulled the bottom plug and apparently I can't just shove it back in the drain-hole to get it to work again.

It's down on the list of things to do so I'm interested in watching how you solve this before I start....could be a tear-down.

 

[rustystud]

I have a recently non-functioning winch on the old M135. This is the schematic for the G749 winches and I think CC, 'key', somehow slipped out. This one came out of the drain-hole when we pulled the bottom plug and apparently I can't just shove it back in the drain-hole to get it to work again.

It's down on the list of things to do so I'm interested in watching how you solve this before I start....could be a tear-down.

View attachment 562045View attachment 562044View attachment 562046

A key cannot "just come out" . They are retained by the gear. So I believe you have other issues. Sorry "plowboy"