Winches; front, back and frame mounted.

[Guruman]

I'm also hoping ditch the 330 feet of steel cable in favor of 500+ feet of synthetic. I've found some inexpensive ATV fairleads for synthetic line that might make great guides along the line path.

 

[Ronmar]

Yes I was looking at the Sherpa. Mounted gearbox in, to get it as close to the frame as possible. Then it will be angled toward the rear so the spool points at an intermediary fairlead that will get the rope right in alongside the frame for its run to the rear. Then around a snatchblock which can be pulled out of its anchor point/receptical for a rear 2:1 pull. The rope will proceed forward to exit the front fairlead for a 1:1 or 2:1 pull…

 

[Ronmar]

I should add, The mounting scheme for the sherpa actually takes into account its capability to deliver so much force. To reduce shear strain on the bolts, it can be configured for a “downward” pull towards the main hardware. So it doesn't really matter if it spools off the top or the bottom, the mount structure just needs to be designed accordingly…

 

[GENX]

Push came to shove one could always mount inside the frame and drill a hole through the opposing frame and snatch.

I poked around a bit on the EPAY and didn't see any LMTV Winch frame rollers, maybe that's cause I don't have the correct PN's.
But if we had to config rollers etc.
1. What kind of steel for configuring here so it doesn't cave? (HSS, 110,000 PSI etc.)
2. Think there is any kind of good cable splice that would allow you do add to the cable in the event you needed to unhook it from passing through the frame for a straight on pull?

 

[chucky]

I'm also hoping ditch the 330 feet of steel cable in favor of 500+ feet of synthetic. I've found some inexpensive ATV fairleads for synthetic line that might make great guides along the line path.

Fellas we aint in 5000 lb jeeps ! the lightest duece to 5 ton trucks from 20 tp 30 k of pull if your on flat dry ground then add you being in mud or a hillside you just doubled your pull so were back to 40 to 50 k of line pull the synthetic rope would have to be as big as your wrist and i always go back to how many wreckers/cranes use synthetic line ? O

 

[Guruman]

Fellas we aint in 5000 lb jeeps ! the lightest duece to 5 ton trucks from 20 tp 30 k of pull if your on flat dry ground then add you being in mud or a hillside you just doubled your pull so were back to 40 to 50 k of line pull the synthetic rope would have to be as big as your wrist and i always go back to how many wreckers/cranes use synthetic line ? O

Doubling the line does not double the pull on each segment of line. As long as the line is rated enough (plus some safety factor) for your winch pull there is no issue, no matter how many pulleys you compound. Getting 50k of pull is as easy for 3/8 synthetic as it is for the 1/2 inch steel. I suppose you could replace the 1/2 steel with 1/2 inch synthetic, but that is rated to over 30k of line pull, which is just wasted space on a winch that can only pull 20k.

I can't really speak to why wreckers and cranes don't use it more, but I suspect it's a bit of "we've always done it this way". I suppose they might be concerned about a couple of the downsides to synthetic, which are the fact that it does not tolerate high heat, and it's way less abrasion/cut resistant. There is also some concern with the way the outer layers can plunge into the inner layers on the drum under load.

But in pretty much every other way, synthetic is better:

It's lightweight (and even floats). Ever had to swim out with 50 feet of 1/2 inch steel cable to recover a submerged vehicle?

It's smaller in diameter, allowing me to fit somewhere between 500 and 600 feet of line on a drum that only held 330 in steel cable.

It does not have a memory. Ever suck a kink into your winch using steel line? That sucks.

It does not snap back (as much). Breaking a synthetic line is much less likely to injure or kill someone when it lets go.

Easily spliced in the field. (I recommend the factor 55 FID for this) In a pinch, I can cut off sections from the main line and splice eyes on it in order to create the rigging needed to get me out of a tough spot. Cutting and splicing steel cable is a big hassle, especially with bigger diameters.

NO little steel splinters. Dang, I hate this things jabbing straight through my leather gloves into the meat of my hand. and those always seem to be really sore and infected in a couple of days.

I know I sound like a cheerleader for synthetic, but I switched my 12k Jeep winch over to synthetic a few years back, and I'll never do steel cable again. I use that thing a ton. One of the reasons I wanted to get the winch going on my LMTV, is because I've used that little Jeep winch so much, often time outpacing the Jeep's ability to stay put and once pulling over my anchor tree in an attempt to remove a big bush with a double line pull.

For me the benefits of synthetic far, FAR outweigh those of steel. I just try not to run it by anything sharp or hot.

But as always, you do you my friend.

 

[chucky]

Doubling the line does not double the pull on each segment of line. As long as the line is rated enough (plus some safety factor) for your winch pull there is no issue, no matter how many pulleys you compound. Getting 50k of pull is as easy for 3/8 synthetic as it is for the 1/2 inch steel. I suppose you could replace the 1/2 steel with 1/2 inch synthetic, but that is rated to over 30k of line pull, which is just wasted space on a winch that can only pull 20k.

I can't really speak to why wreckers and cranes don't use it more, but I suspect it's a bit of "we've always done it this way". I suppose they might be concerned about a couple of the downsides to synthetic, which are the fact that it does not tolerate high heat, and it's way less abrasion/cut resistant. There is also some concern with the way the outer layers can plunge into the inner layers on the drum under load.

But in pretty much every other way, synthetic is better:

It's lightweight (and even floats). Ever had to swim out with 50 feet of 1/2 inch steel cable to recover a submerged vehicle?

It's smaller in diameter, allowing me to fit somewhere between 500 and 600 feet of line on a drum that only held 330 in steel cable.

It does not have a memory. Ever suck a kink into your winch using steel line? That sucks.

It does not snap back (as much). Breaking a synthetic line is much less likely to injure or kill someone when it lets go.

Easily spliced in the field. (I recommend the factor 55 FID for this) In a pinch, I can cut off sections from the main line and splice eyes on it in order to create the rigging needed to get me out of a tough spot. Cutting and splicing steel cable is a big hassle, especially with bigger diameters.

NO little steel splinters. Dang, I hate this things jabbing straight through my leather gloves into the meat of my hand. and those always seem to be really sore and infected in a couple of days.

I know I sound like a cheerleader for synthetic, but I switched my 12k Jeep winch over to synthetic a few years back, and I'll never do steel cable again. I use that thing a ton. One of the reasons I wanted t get the winch going on my LMTV, is because I've used that little Jeep winch so much, often time outpacing the Jeep's ability to stay put and once pulling over my anchor tree in an attempt to remove a big bush with a double line pull.

For me the benefits of synthetic far, FAR outweigh those of steel. I just try not to run it by anything sharp or hot.

But as always, you do you my friend.

Your right it is the shnizzle on 4x4s and the less than 10k line up and i fall in the tribe of seeing heavy equipment winched out of mudhole/ponds and generally bad spots with huge Caterpillar winches on the backends of D-8s and D-9s and seeing the myth like suction of mud on heavy stuff and them snaping cables of 3/4 in wire rope so ive never got wraped around the idea of less than steel for heavy equipment hense my 5 ton and trucks like it . And im wrong on a minute by minute basis around here lol its just the way i am like Merle Haggard said !

 

[Ronmar]

Yea 12mm Synthetic is rated over 30k break strength, just fine for a 20k winch. And for all the reasons mentioned above, it is a good mix IMO for a rec application.

As for a Foers winch install, you can order a bare winch then make up a line that encompasses the added length. Or get one with line and repurpose that Line as an extension/working line or save it as a spare…

 

[GENX]

Depending on how heavy duty you want to get:

3/4" ASR Synthetic Winch Line (68,500 lbs MTS)

High strength 7/16 inch synthetic winch ropes and winchlines designed for hardcore offroad applications. Made entirely in the U.S.

www.asroffroad.com

1-1/2" Dia. Kinetic Recovery Rope (74,000 lb MTS, 24,667 lb WLL).

ASR Offroad offers a variety of 4x4 accessories including synthetic winch ropes, tow straps, kinetic vehicle recovery straps and snatch blocks for 4x4’s, ATV’s and UTV’s.

www.asroffroad.com

 

[GENX]

Any comments on the steel frame rollers made for winched LMTV's?

 

[Ronmar]

Any comments on the steel frame rollers made for winched LMTV's?

I wasn’t planning on using any You don’t typically use them with synthetics, you use a simple fairlead with a rounded edge. The only place I am looking at a roller is fairly close to the winch where I re-direct the line from perpendicular to the winch spool, to parallel with the frame. This one spot will always be loaded the same way so I may place a permanent shiv/roller with keeper guides there. The rear block will fit into a wider fairlead at the rear, and a simple smaller fairlead out the front… the original LMTV cable scheme used some fixed guide rollers along the fore/aft pathways mostly to clear the shock and cab lift cylinder, My first looks at it indicate as a foers setup, the need for guides will be less and those may be satisfied by simple round fairleads instead of the fixed rollers on the OEM winch, since they are at such shallow angles…

 

[Guruman]

Any comments on the steel frame rollers made for winched LMTV's?

There is no reason rollers cannot be used with synthetic. They just need to be smooth. Any nicks or damage from previous use with steel cable will quickly shred the new synthetic.

I've been meticulously rebuilding mine as I get stuff ready for installation. I'll probably use most of it in my setup with the exception of the rearmost roller set,

 

[Ronmar]

Yep, rollers must be smooth. Any nicks or abrasions will act like blades as the tensioned line is rolled over them…

 

[GENX]

Hmm. Seems like mud and under road gunk might be an issue on the synthetic If left in place so is the intent to keep it wound up in the toolbox? I wonder if some sort of swab should be used as you thread through? Sort of a dummy rope.

 

[Mullaney]

Hmm. Seems like mud and under road gunk might be an issue on the synthetic If left in place so is the intent to keep it wound up in the toolbox? I wonder if some sort of swab should be used as you thread through? Sort of a dummy rope.

.
Hmmm....

The military has large deep pockets and a bunch of teens and twenty-somethings.
Steel Rope.
Synthetic Rope.
Wonder why the guys with more money than all of us put together picked steel?
.

 

[Guruman]

Hmm. Seems like mud and under road gunk might be an issue on the synthetic If left in place so is the intent to keep it wound up in the toolbox? I wonder if some sort of swab should be used as you thread through? Sort of a dummy rope.

When my synthetic gets gunk in it, I just unspool it and hit it with a pressure washer. Steel would just get rusty, and there's not much you can do about that, except grease the whole cable, and that's a whole new problem to deal with everything time you want to use it.

 

[Guruman]

.
Hmmm....

The military has large deep pockets and a bunch of teens and twenty-somethings.
Steel Rope.
Synthetic Rope.
Wonder why the guys with more money than all of us put together picked steel?
.

For the exact reason listed above. Steel is better around heat and sharp corners. And they have plenty of strong young soldiers to handle the heavy steel lines.

 

[coachgeo]

Im on an undecided toss up between steel and synthetic.

But that said..... if going steel and your family is not large so you dont have help..... There is a simple ish solution to heavy steel cable and pulling it out...... tie a non special rope to cable eye.... walk that light rope out to where your winch point will anchor. then hand PULL the rope. . (assuming you put it on manual unspool .

You can get fancy..... put it thru a small cheap snatch block. walk the rest of rope back to truck (now you can reach the winch controls on the truck?) and pull by hand there...... orrr.... thru another snatch block for an easier pull (you get the drilll) ) .

another option...... ...... have hand winch for the pulling out by your anchor point.... or boat/atv winch you walked out there along with a large mower or motorycle battery ??? to help.

plan ahead... solutions exist that dont put you into exhaustion dangers when your out on your own. Drink water.

PS. legs are stronger than arms. If you want to not do any of above. find a way to hook the cable to yourself.... say you keep a belt with you like a weight lifters belt..... (but wear it backward- big part in front)... hook winch line to the back of belt and MARCH. could combine some of the snatch blocking described above... and start at anchor point and march back to the truck where you may have to go back too anyway for next winching task.

 

[GENX]

I think I am going to config mine into a bumper mount with closed lid. I’ll have a foers setup with a similar in place dummy cable that I can swab through just to keep the main synthetic line clean. And pull it through when I need rear recovery.

Just an independent thought:
I don’t bow down to the school of thought that everything the military did is sacrosanct and brilliant because they have large budgets. In fact government largesse produces waste and all manner of bonehead inefficiency.
Their primary mission is to wage war, not overland in comforts that an aspiring individual might spec for his convenience.
I often wonder why the hydraulic winch is rated at 11k #… seems a tad under spec to me… meh.

 

[Ronmar]

Yea I would not necessarily use the land of milspec as an example to follow… the 4 battery bank paired with a 100A alternator on the LMTV is a good example