Wiring Question on M1165

[Mainsail]

I am sure they are talking about the negative terminal, it goes to the negative shunt mounted on the inside of the battery box, they WARN that if the negative lead fails, has a poor connection or has inadequate wire size you will over-volt the 12V side so the ground is THE most important connection.
You need big wire (10ga MIN) and the correct terminals installed with the correct tools ( I always solder them after using a hydraulic crimper on them then I seal them with gelled heat shrink.
Do it right the first time.....

That's what I'm talking about, there is nothing labeled Neg - only input, output, and 0V.

I see a bolt on the left side of the shunt that is already pretty crowded, I think that's probably the best ground.

Made my own mondo ring terminal- notched this washer and soldered the 10ga wire in. Seems to be holding as I couldn't yank or wiggle it out.

 

[thoner7]

I decided to order a similar fuse block to the one in that video I linked to.

As far as the negative goes, I plan to connect the Orion unit’s ground to the ground bar in the battery box, and then connect the fuse block’s ground to the ground terminal on the Orion unit. That will obviously connect back to the grounding block but through the Orion.

Is there something I am unaware of as to why I should NOT do this?!

 

[thoner7]

Is 70A the input or output?

The fuse should be about 1.2 times the max current draw of the device, and the wire should be sized for the fuse. So assuming 70A is the input current, you're looking at around a 90A fuse and 4AWG wire minimum.

Posting this for future readers doing this project: https://diysolarforum.com/threads/help-with-victron-orion-24-12-converter-please.47648/

Recommends 8 gauge wire and 50 amp fuse on line feeding the Orion unit

 

[thoner7]

Well, I was digging around looking for 29T and didn’t find it. I found 29 A B and C behind the battery box. I re-checked the schematic and I Pathan’s I should have been looking underneath down by the steering column? I’ve had trouble finding the transmission relay and had thought it was behind the battery box ?

 

[Retiredwarhorses]

Well, I was digging around looking for 29T and didn’t find it. I found 29 A B and C behind the battery box. I re-checked the schematic and I Pathan’s I should have been looking underneath down by the steering column? I’ve had trouble finding the transmission relay and had thought it was behind the battery box ?

transmission relay is on the accessory panal behind the battery box…

 

[thoner7]

Found it! Thanks. I think the wire is 16 gauge? The insulation on these humvees is thicker than normal wire so it’s hard to tell

 

[thoner7]

Out of curiosity- what would happen if powered my window motors with 24v ???

I read that motors can overheat if run on a higher voltage, but with windows I don’t really see that being an issue?

 

[Mogman]

Out of curiosity- what would happen if powered my window motors with 24v ???

I read that motors can overheat if run on a higher voltage, but with windows I don’t really see that being an issue?

That would not be a good idea at all, not only are you over amping the motors and switches, you would be delivering much more torque to the regulator which could easily break something.
The mods you need to do are very easy and basic, if you cannot figure it out pay someone to do it for you.

 

[thoner7]

That would not be a good idea at all, not only are you over amping the motors and switches, you would be delivering much more torque to the regulator which could easily break something.
The mods you need to do are very easy and basic, if you cannot figure it out pay someone to do it for you.

I’ve figured out the 12v wiring. But on 12v the motors have no balls and can’t lift or even lower the glass. So I need more power at the motors, or something else will have to change

 

[Mogman]

I’ve figured out the 12v wiring. But on 12v the motors have no balls and can’t lift or even lower the glass. So I need more power at the motors, or something else will have to change

Are you SURE you are getting full voltage to the motors, where are the doors grounded? the body should never be used as a ground, you must ground to the motor/trans and best would of course be the shunt in the battery box.

 

[Mogman]

What I was trying to say is the return path is as important as the feed path.

 

[Mogman]

To further explain, every electrical device on a HMMWV, headlights, tail lights, WW motor, heater, horn etc has a return (ground) wire going back to a couple of centralized grounding points, the body is not used at ALL for grounding of anything on the HMMWV as it came from the factory and also any electrical devices added by legitimate upgrades.
The body is aluminum which is a good conductor but because the body is comprised of riveted panels, using the body as a return path would cause severe corrosion and operability issues.
There is only one place I have seen that the electrical system ground is even connected to the body and that is behind the inst. panel, other than that the body is pretty much isolated because of the rubber mounts.

 

[thoner7]

So yes my ground goes to that bare on the battery box where all the other grounds are.

Just to eliminate that being the cause I used some jumper cables was to my my f150 battery. Tested at 12v. Trying to get one window to move I fried a 30 amp fuse- which one motor I don’t think should pull that much amperage. I put in a new fuse and tried again - still didn’t work but the wiring harness started getting hot and smoking. Enough to melt the electrical tape. No fire but I have no idea why it would get so hot? It was the power wires close to the driver switches, no others.

 

[Mogman]

So yes my ground goes to that bare on the battery box where all the other grounds are.

Just to eliminate that being the cause I used some jumper cables was to my my f150 battery. Tested at 12v. Trying to get one window to move I fried a 30 amp fuse- which one motor I don’t think should pull that much amperage. I put in a new fuse and tried again - still didn’t work but the wiring harness started getting hot and smoking. Enough to melt the electrical tape. No fire but I have no idea why it would get so hot? It was the power wires close to the driver switches, no others.

Sounds like you have defective devices or something is not wired correctly, where did you get the doors? are they new?

 

[thoner7]

Sounds like you have defective devices or something is not wired correctly, where did you get the doors? are they new?

They are new. It’s a generic/custom window regulators and wiring harness. Both are fairly idiot proof as far as the wiring goes

Universal Power Window 4 Switch Kit w Plug & play Wire Harness & Switch Mount | eBay

The harness is a Put together plug and play with quick disconnects. UNIVERSAL WINDOW SWITCH WIRING KIT FOR 4 DOOR CARS WITH 7 SWITCHES (4 DRIVER, 4 PASSENGER). 7 ILLUMINATED WINDOW SWITCHES + 1 ON/OFF FUNCTION SWITCH.

www.ebay.com

Vintage Car Street Hot Rat Rod Flat Glass Power Window Kit U Wire It 2 Door Kit | eBay

These attach very tightly, they do not allow the glass to sway or wobble. This universal kit can be cut to fit and the kit can be mounted in various positions. This kit will not fit in most small Ford Model A doors, but will work with most 1932 and up Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, etc. cars and trucks...

www.ebay.com

 

[Mogman]

They are new. It’s a generic/custom window regulators and wiring harness. Both are fairly idiot proof as far as the wiring goes

Universal Power Window 4 Switch Kit w Plug & play Wire Harness & Switch Mount | eBay

The harness is a Put together plug and play with quick disconnects. UNIVERSAL WINDOW SWITCH WIRING KIT FOR 4 DOOR CARS WITH 7 SWITCHES (4 DRIVER, 4 PASSENGER). 7 ILLUMINATED WINDOW SWITCHES + 1 ON/OFF FUNCTION SWITCH.

www.ebay.com

Vintage Car Street Hot Rat Rod Flat Glass Power Window Kit U Wire It 2 Door Kit | eBay

These attach very tightly, they do not allow the glass to sway or wobble. This universal kit can be cut to fit and the kit can be mounted in various positions. This kit will not fit in most small Ford Model A doors, but will work with most 1932 and up Ford, Chevy, Chrysler, etc. cars and trucks...

www.ebay.com

Interesting, I have no experience with these but wonder if they are "heavy duty" enough for the HMMWV, these windows weigh several times the weight of a hotrod flat window.
But again I have zero experience or have even seen these used in this application, but if the wiring is right then mechanically they must be in a bind as you are pulling much more current than you should as evidence of your smoking harnesses.

 

[thoner7]

My wiring harness must have been defective, two wires were touching where the shielding had fused together, I pulled those apart and that problem is solved- seller sending me a new harness.

The glass is laminated glass and quite heavy, at least a 1/4” thick. I probably should have gotten tempered glass? Would be thinner and lighter. I think that would really help them.

Here is a video of the windows, some work better than others: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xka54f9cr7bwe29/Video Jun 06 2023, 12 13 12 PM.mov?dl=0


I’m considering running them on 24v, but I want to understand the risks and dangers. The wiring harness I have should handle 24v right? I believe 24v wiring can be of smaller gauge than 12v - can anyone confirm?

What I have read online is that 12v motors run on higher voltage can overheat and burn out over time. But being so infrequently used and for such short duration, they may not heat up at all?

I obviously don’t want to risk a fire or anything so hopefully an electrical engineer or someone who understands this stuff better than I do can explain

 

[Mogman]

I have already answered that question, so go ahead and run it on 24V

 

[thoner7]

My wiring harness must have been defective, two wires were touching where the shielding had fused together, I pulled those apart and that problem is solved- seller sending me a new harness.

The glass is laminated glass and quite heavy, at least a 1/4” thick. I probably should have gotten tempered glass? Would be thinner and lighter. I think that would really help them.

Here is a video of the windows, some work better than others: https://www.dropbox.com/s/xka54f9cr7bwe29/Video Jun 06 2023, 12 13 12 PM.mov?dl=0


I’m considering running them on 24v, but I want to understand the risks and dangers. The wiring harness I have should handle 24v right? I believe 24v wiring can be of smaller gauge than 12v - can anyone confirm?

What I have read online is that 12v motors run on higher voltage can overheat and burn out over time. But being so infrequently used and for such short duration, they may not heat up at all?

I obviously don’t want to risk a fire or anything so hopefully an electrical engineer or someone who understands this stuff better than I do can explain

Ha never mind. I just hooked them up to 24v to see what would happen. While they had TONS of power- sparks fly when they get all the way up and you keep the switch held down. Oh well.

 

[Mogman]

Ha never mind. I just hooked them up to 24v to see what would happen. While they had TONS of power- sparks fly when they get all the way up and you keep the switch held down. Oh well.

DUH...