woops! adjusting belt, alt 2 connected with fuel line

[stranger75]

So, I changed out my belts today. Thanks to searching on here, I was able to do the power steering belt with out much issue. I then reconnected the batteries to start the truck and check my work. I was concerned I didn't put enough tension on the belts so I wanted to see/ hear them run. Turns out the Alt 2 (passenger side) was a little slack.
Without thinking, I grabbed my wrench and loosened the bolts on the alternator to make the adjustment. The batteries were still connected. The alternator slipped and the rear connection post touched a metal fuel line. It immediately started smoking and there was a little flame. There was also smoke up on the driver's side of the firewall at the terminal where all the fusible links are (forgive me for not recalling the name of said terminal).
I'm sure I burnt something up but I'm not sure what and I'm not sure where to start looking. If anyone could offer some insight that would be great.



If my description is a little vague I apologize. Let me know where I am lacking in details and I will try to fill them in, possibly with pictures if needed.

 

[stranger75]

I think there is supposed to be a rubber boot on the alternator post to prevent things like this from happening. Mine is missing.

 

[cpf240]

At a minimum, the fusible links did their job and burned up. Do a search in the CUCV forum, there is a good thread describing these links. It is possible there could be damage to one or both alts, but you'll need to fix the links and then test them.

 

[stranger75]

I'm currently searching. I've read the fusible links wiki, which is informative, but I'm still a little unclear about them. They are stored inside of a black rubber barrel right? How do I check to see if one is burnt? These rubber barrels don't seem to open unless they are cut. Am I missing something obvious, or should I go ahead and cut?

Oh, and the "terminal" I was referring to is the 12V buss bar.

 

[cpf240]

The section of wire between the barrel and the connector is the fusible link, usually a smaller diameter wire than the one it is attached to via the barrel. The barrel may have markings on it to specify the size of the fusible link.

The link may fail without any visible damage. You can gently tug on them to see if it comes apart, but your best test would be a continuity check with something like a DVM.

 

[islandguydon]

Do you have a picture of dammage..?

 

[Warthog]

The black connector is just a piece of plastic. It just covers the part where the splice in the wire is. The fusible link is the 6" piece of special wire that is at the end of the connector.

You torched the fusible link that is attached to the diamond shaped "12v Terminal Block".
It is blue and is a 12 gauge wire.

You will cut off the black plastic connector, install a new butt connector and a new wire with a ring terminal. It is best to use some shrink tubing to cover the new connector.

 

[stranger75]

That fusible link has a tear in its coating and the copper underneath is white/ burned. I'll replace it and check the rest of the links for similar damage.

I was able to stop into O'reilly's and found their fusible links. They had 16 gauge and 14 gauge. Are these too small replace the 12 gauge link? Does Napa stock 12 gauge?

Thanks for your help. I am new to electrical work. The TM's and wiring diagrams have a lot of information, but they can be hard to decipher when you're trying to wrap your head around the basics.

 

[Warthog]

Since this is a feed wire for the GEN2 circuit, it needs to be the proper size.

Most places don't carry the 12 gauge links. You may have to make your own. I keep a small roll of it on the shelf.

If the housing on any link wire is split or bubbled up, the wire is suspect.

Have you read the first few pages of the Troubleshooting section of the tech manuals? It covers how to read the diagrams, what the symbals are and how to read the wire sizes.

The fusible link wires are made of a special material. If there is a problem it allows the wire to heat up and melt but keep any "flames" inside the coating. Doesn't always do it because of age, nicks and scrapes, etc, but it works preaty well.

It worked for you by doing its job and not allowing the entire wiring harness to go up in flames. Kind of like your avatar......

 

[stranger75]

I was able to find 12 gauge fusible link at a local NAPA. It comes in a 10 ft roll and is NAPA part #785856.

I'll humbly admit that prior to this experience, I did not know what the fusible link looked like. I had read about them and understood their function, but had never burned one or had to replace one. In fact, based on the picture Warthog posted in the Fusible links 101 sticky, I thought the link was much smaller and actually concealed by the black plastic barrel. Now I understand that the fusible link is the actual length of wire connected to the 12V terminal block.


The black plastic connector is basically a cover for the factory installed "butt connector", although it is actually crimped and soldered together.

I am about to replace the links and will report when finished.
__________________

 

[stranger75]

I had planned on posting pictures, but I ran into another problem. I replaced the fusible links on the 12V terminal block. I checked continuity, and checked for voltage at the block. All was good, so I started the truck. I let it run for a while and nothing happened. I started it twice more with no issues.

The fourth time I turned the key, the engine started, but the starter motor kept going. It sounded like a weedeater next door, but I knew it wasn't. I popped the hood and disconnected the batteries. Smoke from the starter wafted up through the engine compartment, and the familiar electrical burn smell filled the air.

I'm headed back out to check for more burned links and or visible damage, but I wanted to post this experience first in order to get some feedback.

I wonder if my starter relay failed? One of the first things I did when I bought the truck was the Doghead mod. Maybe there was a loose connection? I find it interesting that the starter engaged the 6.2 engine, and then continued to run on?

I know by looking at the starting circuit diagram that there are several wires connected to the starter solenoid, but that is difficult to see from underneath the truck. The frame blocks my view. What should I be looking for down there, and how can I see it? should I pull the starter?

 

[stranger75]

Okay, I'm in the -20 troubleshooting section. "high pitched whine" after startup. The TM has led me to Section II, 4-5, starter replacement.

I'm going to remove the starter and read up on how to test it/ find out whats wrong. I still do not understand how it, or what exactly happened, but I will pull the Doghead starter relay and check my wiring connections as well.

 

[cpf240]

My guess would be that the starter solenoid is stuck in the engaged position.

 

[MarcusOReallyus]

Have you done the doghead relay conversion?

 

[cpf240]

... One of the first things I did when I bought the truck was the Doghead mod.

Have you done the doghead relay conversion?

It would seem so

 

[scottladdy]

Sorry to hear about your additional woes. My guess is a stuck solenoid on the starter itself. But as always with electrical issues, go methodically. Short cuts lead to short circuits .

An interesting read on circuit protection here: http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/hweb1.pdf

 

[stranger75]

I have a brand new starter that came on the parts truck I have. The seller told me it had 3 starts on it. I don't know about that, but it sure looks shiny and new. It is a gear reduction starter, the kind they have on ebay. In fact it has a glaring little sticker on it that says "made in China". Yeehaw!

Unfortunately this new starter was not installed with a bracket. It was held onto the truck with the starter bolts only.

I plan to get the original direct drive starter rebuilt, but in the mean time I will install the chinese one.

While the starter is off, I took a look at the flex plate through the starter opening. I noticed a couple of teeth looked like they had broken. Not completely broken off, but not .. complete either. I have not taken the 6 bolt access plate off yet. Its late and I have to get up early, so it can wait until tomorrow.

So, I'm a little impatient and want to get this fixed. The truck has been down for two days now. What i'd like to know, if anyone could share, is a NAPA or Oreilly part number for the new style gear reduction starter bracket. I have searched and found that the GM part number is 23502557, but since its 2012 not 1984 I don't think my local Chevy dealership has this on the shelf. I also would like to avoid ordering online and waiting. Like I said, I'm a little impatient about getting this fixed.

Also, i have been unsuccessful in finding a part number for the flex plate. (I've been searching the -34P TM parts list) Is this also a GM only part, or would I be able to get at Napa?

 

[stranger75]

I have a brand new starter that came on the parts truck I have. The seller told me it had 3 starts on it. I don't know about that, but it sure looks shiny and new. It is a gear reduction starter, the kind they have on ebay. In fact it has a glaring little sticker on it that says "made in China". Yeehaw!

Unfortunately this new starter was not installed with a bracket. It was held onto the truck with the starter bolts only.

I plan to get the original direct drive starter rebuilt, but in the mean time I will install the chinese one.

While the starter is off, I took a look at the flex plate through the starter opening. I noticed a couple of teeth looked like they had broken. Not completely broken off, but not .. complete either. I have not taken the 6 bolt access plate off yet. Its late and I have to get up early, so it can wait until tomorrow.

So, I'm a little impatient and want to get this fixed. The truck has been down for two days now. What i'd like to know, if anyone could share, is a NAPA or Oreilly part number for the new style gear reduction starter bracket. I have searched and found that the GM part number is 23502557, but since its 2012 not 1984 I don't think my local Chevy dealership has this on the shelf. I also would like to avoid ordering online and waiting. Like I said, I'm a little impatient about getting this fixed.

Also, i have been unsuccessful in finding a part number for the flex plate. (I've been searching the -34P TM parts list) Is this also a GM only part, or would I be able to get at Napa?

 

[cpf240]

... What i'd like to know, if anyone could share, is a NAPA or Oreilly part number for the new style gear reduction starter bracket. I have searched and found that the GM part number is 23502557, but since its 2012 not 1984 I don't think my local Chevy dealership has this on the shelf. I also would like to avoid ordering online and waiting. Like I said, I'm a little impatient about getting this fixed.

Also, i have been unsuccessful in finding a part number for the flex plate. (I've been searching the -34P TM parts list) Is this also a GM only part, or would I be able to get at Napa?

As far as I know, there is no after market part for the starter support brackets. As you may know, there is a different one depending on which starter being used. I was able to get the support bracket for the gear reduction starter online from, I think, GM Parts Direct. You are correct, the part is NLA, but there may still be some out there if you look hard enough.

There was also a thread here where an SS'er made his own bracket.

Also, it is commonly accepted that the starter bolts should be replaced each time the starter is replaced.

As for the flex plate, I think they call it a flywheel in the TM. They are available at just about any parts house, or I believe Saturn Surplus has a few left.

Good luck!

 

[stranger75]

I replaced the starter with the gear reduction one that I had. I have ordered the bracket that it needs. I have started the truck a number of times and took it for a test drive, and have not experienced any issues.

I know the starter needs a bracket or I risk snapping the starter bolts. Hopefully it will arrive soon.

I decided that replacing the flex plate/ flywheel is a little beyond my capabilities at present. I don't have the necessary tools to do it, and while imagining some redneck workarounds, I imagined hurting myself pretty good. It seems to be working fine for now. The teeth were not broken off, the wheel was not shredded, there were just a couple of teeth that had small chunks missing.

Now that I can get the engine to run, I went back to work on tightening the belts. Thats how I started all of this. They are good to go. My wiring job is also good to go.

Thanks for the information and guidance.