How important are the extra fuel pumps? MEP003a

[NY Tom]

Yeah that's true. Also tested the transfer pump so in a worst case have that.

 

[Light in the Dark]

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=8850

 

[Light in the Dark]

Or a less than ideal swap (it does not flow through), but less expensive and OK if using in a pinch:

Facet Cylindrical Solid State 24v Electric Fuel Pump 40128E FMTV LMTV Military | eBay

40128E Facet Gold-Flo Fuel Pump, 24 Volt, 6.0-8.0, 33 GPH. New Facet Cylindrical Solid State 24v Electric Fuel Pump.

www.ebay.com

 

[Guyfang]

Or a less than ideal swap (it does not flow through), but less expensive and OK if using in a pinch:

Facet Cylindrical Solid State 24v Electric Fuel Pump 40128E FMTV LMTV Military | eBay

40128E Facet Gold-Flo Fuel Pump, 24 Volt, 6.0-8.0, 33 GPH. New Facet Cylindrical Solid State 24v Electric Fuel Pump.

www.ebay.com

This would be good for the AUX fuel pump! In a pinch, we sometimes did that. Installed one that did not flow through, and took the good one we removed from the AUX position, and installed it as one of the other two pumps that had gone bad.

 

[Light in the Dark]

I was thinking dual purpose if he went into total failure again, one working pump (even if incorrect) working solo. But you can move it around too. All in what you really want to do.

 

[Chainbreaker]

Now you got me thinking...what is the part inside the 480517E pump that makes it flow through? Is it a diaphragm type of valve or...?

 

[Guyfang]

This is all there is.

 

[Guyfang]

I was thinking dual purpose if he went into total failure again, one working pump (even if incorrect) working solo. But you can move it around too. All in what you really want to do.

Changing out the AUX pump, is something I would only do in desperation. Its a PITA. Or maybe if I was locked up someplace, and about ready to loose my mind.

 

[Light in the Dark]

No doubt the best solution is the right pump. If one cant afford the right pump, any pump will do when the lights are out right?

 

[NY Tom]

Well I guess I was thinking more for long term. Now I see the pump is available new production. My initial fear was that these were no longer available new and that was the expense.

So that being said it makes sense to buy the right pump and have it for a spare. I also notes it would not be much fun to switch over the auxiliary as Guyfang pointed out.

So far this has been pretty fun. Emptied and took off the tank to clean it as best I could. Cleaned up the fuel level gage and the aux. Level sensor. Did the filters and pumps too.

Other than getting a few sets of clothes pretty well diesel soaked the biggest screw up has been washing them. Now the washer has a diesel smell even after cleaning cycle was run.

Fingers crossed my wife doesn't kill me after the next load...

 

[Chainbreaker]

This is all there is.

Well its a fairly simple design, that's for sure.

I reviewed the exploded view of the pump innards and can't identify with certainty what makes it a flow through design. I'm wondering if maybe its a lower rated spring tension (item 10) that a working pump can pull/push against to open internal backflow valve. Or is it the item 9 valve designed to "somehow" open under suction/pressure and allow fuel to pass through. Or...does it have something to do with item 11 the cylinder thingy with maybe some sort of relief inside that allows fuel to flow past all those parts when under suction/pressure.

Reason for wondering was...lets suppose all those parts are good but the electronics (pump motor windings) went bad...wondering if a person could swap any of those parts & put them in a new non-flow through design to make a a flow through model? Like if it was just a simple spring swap or something like that, assuming internal dimensions are same.

 

[Guyfang]

Well I guess I was thinking more for long term. Now I see the pump is available new production. My initial fear was that these were no longer available new and that was the expense.

So that being said it makes sense to buy the right pump and have it for a spare. I also notes it would not be much fun to switch over the auxiliary as Guyfang pointed out.

So far this has been pretty fun. Emptied and took off the tank to clean it as best I could. Cleaned up the fuel level gage and the aux. Level sensor. Did the filters and pumps too.

Other than getting a few sets of clothes pretty well diesel soaked the biggest screw up has been washing them. Now the washer has a diesel smell even after cleaning cycle was run.

Fingers crossed my wife doesn't kill me after the next load...

! After 20 plus years in the Army coming home smelling like a diesel tank most every day, my wife told me she missed that smell. And here I thought it was just me!

 

[North Maine]

I may be off in my understanding of using 12v batteries in series to achieve 24 volts.... but I've checked my batteries across several terminals with a multimeter while running and while shut down and while I have them wired in series for 24v to the starter stud I've still got 12v across the two terminals of my first battery in the series. I plan on using that 12v availability to run much cheaper 12v pumps.

I am having fuel pump issues and my plan is to power my 12v pumps by using a 24v relay triggered by the factory fuel pump power supply and lead the pump power wires directly to the terminals of the first battery in series. This should allow me to use 12v pumps on 12v power but keep the original 24volt power supply intact without any converting.

 

[Kenny0]

Running a load from one battery will lead to a discharged battery. The 24 volt alternator will not keep that battery charged. Plus you will add another failure point with the relay. If you wanted to use 12 volt pumps, you could use a 24 to 12 volt converter. You would still be adding another failure point and extra expense of the converter. I would just use the 24 volt pumps.

 

[Guyfang]

Why fool with something that works. The life of such a pump, is incredibly long. And you probably will never use your set long enough to exceed the running life of the pump. Get a new pump. Get the right pump.

This gen set is one of only a few I would stake my life on. It just runs for ever. But it only will do that if you use it as it was intended to be used. Your modifications only add more complexity. That adds unreliability. Your DC charging circuit will not be able to keep the battery's up to snuff.

My German boss once told me, "Billig und gut, leben nicht unter einem Dach". That translates to, Cheap and good, (reliable) do not live under the same roof.

 

[Guyfang]

Also, have you checked the pump output? 3 gallons in ten min.

 

[North Maine]

I guess I don't view the original equipment pumps as reliable. My set came with two... one one dead when i bought it, the other caused my set to stall out a couple times last time I needed it for power. To get it going again I needed to take a wrench and tap on it in order for it start pumping again. Grounds are clean and connections are tight... but I would NEVER accuse my pumps of being reliable.

While running on the 24V charging circuit the first battery reads 13.5V and across both batteries reads 27.0V I don't follow how a battery that's being giving 13.5V (just like any 12V charging circuit) will drain.

EDIT:

After further research it seems this particular topic of getting 12V off a 24V system has been well hashed out elsewhere on the interwebs. Debate ensues regarding the affect on the "victim" battery but most threads boil down to the fact that its not likely to cause an issue, and any issue that *may* be caused can be remedied by periodically rotating the batteries.

 

[North Maine]

Also, have you checked the pump output? 3 gallons in ten min.

That comes out to 18 gal/hour or nearly 40 liters/hour.

This I'll need to triple check-on. The pump that Green Mountain sells as a replacement (Facet 480517E) pumps 33 gal/hour or 125 liters/hour free flow and pump 6-8 PSI.

My experience with most diesel injection pumps is that excess volume is handled by simply routing it back to the tank. As long as you meet the minimum volume and keep the pressure as designed, going "over" on fuel volume doesn't cause an issue (unless that also causes a rise in pressure)

The pumps I bought are rated for 30 GPH 5-9PSI... which means a single pump should have no problem keeping the injection pump supplied.

 

[Chainbreaker]

I guess I don't view the original equipment pumps as reliable. My set came with two... one one dead when i bought it, the other caused my set to stall out a couple times last time I needed it for power. To get it going again I needed to take a wrench and tap on it in order for it start pumping again. Grounds are clean and connections are tight... but I would NEVER accuse my pumps of being reliable...

I would not be too quick characterize the OEM Gold Flo series pumps as "unreliable" based on the issues you are currently experiencing with a generator, & its 2 pumps, that is new to you. Facet-Purolator pumps are widely used in construction equipment, agricultural, marine, utility, military applications and have a MTBF of up to 10,000 hours.

I have 4 generators, that's 12 of the OEM 480517E pumps with their original EMI filters intact, and have yet to experience a failure in any of them going back to 7 years of ownership with my first gen set. I do maintain them and use treated fuel and they have not ever had a hiccup...knock on wood!

I also recall SS members here that have brought, what they thought were dead pumps, back to life by dissembling the complete pump internals and cleaning them. You never know how long your generator may have sat with perhaps water in stale fuel that could have gummed up/corroded pump internals.

Regardless, if you truly have a dead pump with who knows how many hours on it then I agee its time to move on with a new pump. Nothing lasts forever.

 

[North Maine]

I would not be too quick characterize the OEM Gold Flo series pumps as "unreliable" based on the issues you are currently experiencing with a generator, & its 2 pumps, that is new to you. Facet-Purolator pumps are widely used in construction equipment, agricultural, marine, utility, military applications and have a MTBF of up to 10,000 hours.

I have 4 generators, that's 12 of the OEM 480517E pumps with their original EMI filters intact, and have yet to experience a failure in any of them going back to 7 years of ownership with my first gen set. I do maintain them and use treated fuel and they have not ever had a hiccup...knock on wood!

I so recall SS members here that have brought, what they thought were dead pumps, back to life by dissembling the complete pump internals and cleaning them. You never know how long your generator may have sat with perhaps water in stale fuel that could have gummed up/corroded pump internals.

Regardless, if you truly have a dead pump with who knows how many hours on it then I agee its time to move on with a new pump. Nothing lasts forever.

I don't disagree with what you've written... I meant to specify that I don't find MY pumps reliable. My dead pump has been disassembled, cleaned, rebuilt and EMI filter removed with no luck. In fact it shorts when connected... zero resistance from the 24V supply to the pump body (ground).

My installed pump was great (or so I thought) until I started to need to bang on it to get it to pump. Cleaned the grounds and it was great again... until it wasn't and I needed power.