Softer Springs

[Autonomy_Lost]

I wonder if you can open them up and modify them?

 

[osteo16]

Be careful.. That shock installed is the only thing keeping that spring from decapittating someone..

 

[rolling18]

I've searched and read through all the spring threads I can find. Lots of good info, but little "follow on" reports of how the trucks ride. Right now I figure our M1123 has had at least 3k pounds of gear removed, so the springs are like bricks. Here is my goal, and I would appreciate anyone who has experience that can help me get to it

So, back to the M1123. This truck has enough wheel travel to put the RR to shame. There is no need for solid rock springs. I would like to drop the rates...a LOT!! Most of the springs I find in the forum are advertising 30% less rate. They all advertise this 30% less rate as though it is a magical fix. Honestly, 30% less rate only accounts for the weight removed in the demil. That takes it from "solid" suspension to "dump truck" rates. I want 1965 Fleetwood spring rates.

In fact, I think the optimum for my use would be springs that would bottom frequently, with the stock ride height, and then stiffen it up with air shocks when needed. I want to glide down the road in my living room couch. The HMMWV weighs very close to what a '65 Cadi weighed, so I know it's possible.

Exactly what I want to do!

BTW I have a Kenworth 5 axle dump truck and it rides far softer/ better thAn my M1123 heavy HMMWV (pickup)

As an experiment, I removed the shocks and left the springs.. SOOOO MUCH BETTER RIDE!! little more "bobbing when going down the road at 60 mph or hitting bumps fast but 200% worth the trade off!
when going off road or krawling on big rocks/ also much better!
spent the whole day driving around different scenarios. I couldnt find any major faults..

should be noted I also removed the sway / roll bar: and it still handles like a sports car and can do 4 wheel drifts with no body lean but the springs are allowed to absorb now that the shocks are gone witch overpowered the stiffness of the springs

someday I may be tempted to try the Nissan armada spring swap that also seems pretty popular if i want even softer.

 

[SmartDrug]

Be careful.. That shock installed is the only thing keeping that spring from decapittating someone..

Is this a real risk? Obviously an instantaneous release of immense pressure is potentially deadly, but is it likely? I thought jeep guys ran setups like that, too.

 

[Coug]

Is this a real risk? Obviously an instantaneous release of immense pressure is potentially deadly, but is it likely? I thought jeep guys ran setups like that, too.

The shock is what keeps the suspension from extending too far. If it does extend too far, there is potential for the spring to shift in it's seat and potentially come out. Our springs don't really have much extension to begin with.

For most jeeps, you're talking limiting straps or just suspension geometry that keeps the spring in place. Most Jeeps are also solid axle, not independent suspension, which changes things up a bit.

I have no idea how likely it is, but it's definitely not impossible.

 

[SmartDrug]

The shock is what keeps the suspension from extending too far. If it does extend too far, there is potential for the spring to shift in it's seat and potentially come out. Our springs don't really have much extension to begin with.

For most jeeps, you're talking limiting straps or just suspension geometry that keeps the spring in place. Most Jeeps are also solid axle, not independent suspension, which changes things up a bit.

I have no idea how likely it is, but it's definitely not impossible.

While not their intended use, would some 17” limiting straps attached to the stock shock mounting points do the trick? Seems like it would be some margin of safety keeping the spring in place while also keeping the entire assembly from overextending for the rare chance that one reaches full extension.

Thoughts?

 

[Coug]

While not their intended use, would some 17” limiting straps attached to the stock shock mounting points do the trick? Seems like it would be some margin of safety keeping the spring in place while also keeping the entire assembly from overextending for the rare chance that one reaches full extension.

Thoughts?

Some sort of limiting strap should work, but remember they aren't typically designed for shock loading, which is what will happen during rough driving. The shock slows down how fast the spring can extend, and mitigated the shock factor (no pun intended) of the suspension travel coming to a stop.

If you drive off road at all, it won't be a "rare chance" for the suspension reaching full extension, it will be something that happens constantly and repeatedly. I spend much of my time on 3 wheels, or even 2 wheels when out on the trails due to the lack of flex and suspension travel in our trucks.

 

[cjd]

I see this thread has been thriving without me! There is a lot of good info.

My quest for a softer suspension has come to a head. Our 2004 Range Rover died, and it is the vehicle we tow across the country behind the RV. Last year we ran Poohkeepsie Trail in Colorado. When we got off, nobody believed we ran it in a stock RR...but I think it was the cars last hurraah. The tranny went out 6 months later, and it would cost more than the car is worth to repair. Oh well.

So...If I can get the suspension on the 1123 smooth(er), I would like to tow it. The other option is to have to buy another car...and there are not many "towable" options anymore. I've had the 1123 3 years now, and will not allow my Wife to ride in it with her bad back. It's time to get serious.

I am thinking I might try the Armada springs, as they are cheaper than all the HMV options. Then remove the sway bar. Finally, find some weak ass shocks, since it sounds like the shocks hurt more than help, based on what you guys have been doing.

A quick question...from the repair work I've done on the HMV the last 3 years. It appears that if you undo the shocks and raise the frame, the springs will drop out. Is that correct? Or is a spring compressor still required?

 

[rcamacho]

I see this thread has been thriving without me! There is a lot of good info.

My quest for a softer suspension has come to a head. Our 2004 Range Rover died, and it is the vehicle we tow across the country behind the RV. Last year we ran Poohkeepsie Trail in Colorado. When we got off, nobody believed we ran it in a stock RR...but I think it was the cars last hurraah. The tranny went out 6 months later, and it would cost more than the car is worth to repair. Oh well.

So...If I can get the suspension on the 1123 smooth(er), I would like to tow it. The other option is to have to buy another car...and there are not many "towable" options anymore. I've had the 1123 3 years now, and will not allow my Wife to ride in it with her bad back. It's time to get serious.

I am thinking I might try the Armada springs, as they are cheaper than all the HMV options. Then remove the sway bar. Finally, find some weak ass shocks, since it sounds like the shocks hurt more than help, based on what you guys have been doing.

A quick question...from the repair work I've done on the HMV the last 3 years. It appears that if you undo the shocks and raise the frame, the springs will drop out. Is that correct? Or is a spring compressor still required?

Service TM gives the correct procedure for spring replacement. Fairly easy at least with the stock height springs in my experience. I’ve replaced (4) coil springs to date on the HMMWV platform.

 

[TNDRIVER]

I see this thread has been thriving without me! There is a lot of good info.

My quest for a softer suspension has come to a head. Our 2004 Range Rover died, and it is the vehicle we tow across the country behind the RV. Last year we ran Poohkeepsie Trail in Colorado. When we got off, nobody believed we ran it in a stock RR...but I think it was the cars last hurraah. The tranny went out 6 months later, and it would cost more than the car is worth to repair. Oh well.

So...If I can get the suspension on the 1123 smooth(er), I would like to tow it. The other option is to have to buy another car...and there are not many "towable" options anymore. I've had the 1123 3 years now, and will not allow my Wife to ride in it with her bad back. It's time to get serious.

I am thinking I might try the Armada springs, as they are cheaper than all the HMV options. Then remove the sway bar. Finally, find some weak ass shocks, since it sounds like the shocks hurt more than help, based on what you guys have been doing.

A quick question...from the repair work I've done on the HMV the last 3 years. It appears that if you undo the shocks and raise the frame, the springs will drop out. Is that correct? Or is a spring compressor still required?

A. I'm not a mechanic nor even pretend to be. B The front springs are not too bad but the rear should be left to the "talented" shade tree bunch. Screw it up and they can put your lights out! My two cents.

 

[TOBASH]

I see this thread has been thriving without me! There is a lot of good info.

My quest for a softer suspension has come to a head. Our 2004 Range Rover died, and it is the vehicle we tow across the country behind the RV. Last year we ran Poohkeepsie Trail in Colorado. When we got off, nobody believed we ran it in a stock RR...but I think it was the cars last hurraah. The tranny went out 6 months later, and it would cost more than the car is worth to repair. Oh well.

So...If I can get the suspension on the 1123 smooth(er), I would like to tow it. The other option is to have to buy another car...and there are not many "towable" options anymore. I've had the 1123 3 years now, and will not allow my Wife to ride in it with her bad back. It's time to get serious.

I am thinking I might try the Armada springs, as they are cheaper than all the HMV options. Then remove the sway bar. Finally, find some weak ass shocks, since it sounds like the shocks hurt more than help, based on what you guys have been doing.

A quick question...from the repair work I've done on the HMV the last 3 years. It appears that if you undo the shocks and raise the frame, the springs will drop out. Is that correct? Or is a spring compressor still required?

The Armada Springs may sag under the weight of the newer frame in the M1123

 

[Vapor Trail]

Thats why I'm perplexed. My M1123 is sitting way too high but I'm wiring right now so i guess I'll address that in a week or two.

 

[cjd]

A slight sag with the armada springs may be perfect. Then it will be possible to compensate with air shocks...keeping the ride as smooth as possible. Do we go with 4 rear Armada springs, or are they the same in all 4 corners of the Armada?

Vapor Trail...what did you do that has your ride sitting too high?

 

[Vapor Trail]

I cut one third off all four springs and put them on, that is all. Most people have to add spacers in the back and I'm sitting too high. I haven't been able to roll it around yet. I think it will settle down. I don't want to cut a bunch off because that makes it stiffer. i'll make new upper spring perches that solve the height issue and also solve the problem of the spring bulging towards the outside.

 

[Thunderbirds]

...


So...If I can get the suspension on the 1123 smooth(er), I would like to tow it. The other option is to have to buy another car...and there are not many "towable" options anymore. I've had the 1123 3 years now, and will not allow my Wife to ride in it with her bad back. It's time to get serious.

...

Just out of curiosity, what tire pressures are you running? When I got my M1123 last June, I originally ran 40 PSI in all four, and could have sworn fillings in my teeth fell out on the road, couldn't even imagine off roading.

After some research and finally Mogman pointing out that the TM actually wants to run 15 PSI front and 18 PSI rear if not loaded except driver and passenger. That sounded so crazy to me, so I tested different pressures. Front and rear respectively: 35/35, 25/35, 20/20, and now I consistently fill them to 21/21 on hard roads and 18/18 off-road. That made a huge difference, almost passenger car like. I am keeping an eye on my sidewalls to watch for any cracking, but with the 10-ply tires, I am am not even showing any bulging as I first thought I would. Some very little, but nothing that seems out of the ordinary to a truck. Now 3,000 miles later the tires are still in near perfect condition.

I would suggest to try different pressure before spending money, risking material failures or catastrophic events.

YMMV, and this is my humble opinion only. But the TM writers usually have considered all factors before printing. Not to say they aren't ever wrong.

Here is the page out of the -10 TM:

 

[cjd]

I am running a lot more pressure than 15-20! My tires suck right now. I think they sat flat for months, as they all have flat spots. I initially over filled them in an attempt to remove the flat spots, but it has not worked. When all the flat spots line up on the road the rig shakes like crazy...then they slowly roll out of alignment and it reduces to a mild shake.

I'll try the lower pressures and see how she rides. Thanks!

 

[Coug]

Another method to determine what a good pressure for your tires is.

How To Find The Right Tire Pressure For Your 4x4 Using Chalk

Improve Fuel Economy, Tire Life, Traction And Vehicle Ride With Proper Tire Pressure

www.4wheelparts.com

 

[Thunderbirds]

I am running a lot more pressure than 15-20! My tires suck right now. I think they sat flat for months, as they all have flat spots. I initially over filled them in an attempt to remove the flat spots, but it has not worked. When all the flat spots line up on the road the rig shakes like crazy...then they slowly roll out of alignment and it reduces to a mild shake.

I'll try the lower pressures and see how she rides. Thanks!

I’m certain most of us are running civilian truck/SUV/car pressures. We should keep in mind that these are designed for military applications, they have headlocks or runflats for a reason.

A good example of a lesson learned is my trike vs the motorcycles we ride. The wife and I each ride 1400 Suzuki Intruders, Vtwin chopper style motorcycles. Factory tire pressures are recommended at 29 front and 32 rear which I follow and they handle great. The 1500 Suzuki Intruder trike conversion we occasionally ride is recommended at 29 front and 14-16 rear. Same exact theory as the HMMWV, it is backbreaking to run 32psi in the rear, the shocks are much different than the original motorcycle setup due to the extra weight and loading capacity, mind you it has a car axle installed. I am certain you could injury your spine at the higher pressure not exaggerating. Even at 16 psi it’s hard enough to make it necessary to buy a gel seat in the hundreds $$$. The tires are absolutely standing up to the lower pressure, even after 18,000 miles no sign of suffering. How, the ride quality difference is astonishing.



I almost want to guarantee you would take your wife on rides if you dropped them down to 20-ish PSI. It can be overstated how much of difference this makes.

I found the best way to get flat spots out is to drive them at a steady speed on warm sunny days for as long as you can. And keep in mind if severe enough, flats spots aren’t coming back out and those tire will need replaced.

Really hope this help you and others with this issue.