Why the Deuce Doesn't Have These I'll Never Know!

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Again, very conservative US Military ratings. I'd say you could probably put double that before sheer pin let loose.

I figure they might be actually the right numbers. What is the diameter of the cable on the 10k winch normally?

 

[Elwenil]

1/2" I believe and it's wire rope, cable is used for electronics.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

1/2" I believe and it's wire rope, cable is used for electronics.

1/2 wire rope , that's not bad but Tulsa winch only rates the winches with this size wire rope at 7,000lbs. Of course strength depends on material and type of strand patterns but I bet 6,100lbs is pretty much dead on when you consider the rate of the winch and length of wire rope. Especially since they rate the breaking strength at 10,342lbs max. Unless this figure is also more than 50% lower than what the line's true capabilities are I figure this 6,100lb figure is probably pretty dead on. Now with length of cable a series of snatch blocks you reduce the line loading but let's talk about just straight pulling power of the winch itself. I think the winch is right their with every other 10,000lb winch. The only factor that really helps are the length of line and snatch blocks the military loves to use. If you've got four snatch blocks you pull this truck out of most anything pretty easily. I personally just want a 35k winch on the truck.

In truth the truck as I use it will never need the 10k winch on it most likely. But to say I have a mid mount 35k winch is something else it keeps me a step ahead of the pack. Just like having full lockers, new Oshkosh 550000 Transfer case and DT466 making over 200hp and 660ft-lbs of torque makes my truck personalized.

 

[rattlecan6104]

I figure they might be actually the right numbers. What is the diameter of the cable on the 10k winch normally?

I'm in the military, everything is rated conservitevly. Our aircraft are rated for a maximum number X G force. we will just say that X is 5 G's. Beyond this is where severe structural damage happens including the wings ripping off of the aircraft. We had a pilot over G one of our aircraft by 2.91 G's. The aircraft was fine after a thurough inspection. All US government equipment is underrated conservitevly for just this reason. Serously do you think an aircraft carrier can get nearly half way around the world in only 3 days at 35 knots? They do that so there is margin for error on the operators part, as well as for in extreme circumstances.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I guess someone should have told that to the F-15C?

 

[rattlecan6104]

But to say I have a mid mount 35k winch is something else it keeps me a step ahead of the pack. Just like having full lockers, new Oshkosh 550000 Transfer case and DT466 making over 200hp and 660ft-lbs of torque makes my truck personalized.

Ok I will give you that, it will most definately be different, as well as "personalized" As far as I am concerned it seems along the lines of over engineering, I like the idea of the lockers, so long as they are selectable, the extra hp and torque would be nice, However I feel it is unnessecary, as far as the winch, I still feel the original is adequate enough with proper winching technique, to each his own i guess.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Ok I will give you that, it will most definately be different, as well as "personalized" As far as I am concerned it seems along the lines of over engineering, I like the idea of the lockers, so long as they are selectable, the extra hp and torque would be nice, However I feel it is unnessecary, as far as the winch, I still feel the original is adequate enough with proper winching technique, to each his own i guess.

I've emailed ARB to find out if they think their lockers will handle the extra torque of the IH DT466 when coupled to a Fuller 6spd and Oshkosh 55000 series transfer case. They're crunching the numbers supposedly.

 

[Elwenil]

Why not start out with the USMC 5 ton as stated previously? More powerful engine, stronger components, heavier winches and rear lockers stock. Perhaps you should review a few of the threads already posted here concerning expedition type vehicles or maybe check out the expedition section over at Pirate 4x4. I would advise speaking carefully at Pirate however as it's a whole other world filled with profanity and violence when compared to SS.

It sounds as if you are expecting the world out of the wrong class of vehicle. Don't be fooled by the fact that it's a 6x6, most civilian vehicles in this class are single rear axle and do fine. The extra axle is just the military's typical tendency to over-build for it's intended purpose. Tandem axles does not mean it is supposed to compare to something like a 6WD Oshkosh cement mixer or a T9 Kenworth. A deuce is a very heavy truck for it's intended purpose but you are talking about putting a heavier engine, transmission, transfer case, heavier winches and a full hydraulic system when the front axle is already maxed out with the stock winch setup. I think you need to re-engineer your plans if you intend to use a Deuce or swap to a heavier vehicle to carry out the current plan.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Money was the issue, I didn't want to wait for 6x6 fun... I figure I can build it bit by bit. I plan on putting the new winch in the middle of the truck actually. In fact running another channel betwen the front and rear axles to distribute the weight of the winch as well as distribute the load from winch when pulling. The IH DT-466 engine is actually 170lbs lighter than the LDT-465-1D it has currently. the Transmission is about the same weight. I'm not sure about the transfer case's weight but I figure it is worth it. I also plan on using the air-lockers so I have selectable traction and can even turn off when driving on the pavement for better fuel consumption and saving tires. Don't forget I would love to put CTIS on it as well.

Not to mention I just want to see how tough I can make the truck.

 

[Elwenil]

CTIS will most assuredly leave you stranded somewhere in Mexico with no air in your tires. I would scrap that idea now, lol. That is one thing the Soviets did do much better than the US.

 

[FreightTrain]

Not to mention I just want to see how tough I can make the truck.

Ummm,You really CAN'T make it any tougher than stock.They spend over 30 years,some as much as 50 years being driven by 18YO PFCs straight outta boot camp with the full knowledge that if they break something they ain't gotta fix it themselves or pay the bill to have it fixed.

 

[FreightTrain]

Oh yea,You might wanna get in your shiny flame suit now...REALLY don't wanna bring up CTIS.Most CTIS systems were disconnected the minute the trucks came off the transporter to save future troubles.One of those things designed by an idiot,built by a moron.Looks great on paper but totally SUCKS in actual deployment....Atleast the American version did....

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Oh yea,You might wanna get in your shiny flame suit now...REALLY don't wanna bring up CTIS.Most CTIS systems were disconnected the minute the trucks came off the transporter to save future troubles.One of those things designed by an idiot,built by a moron.Looks great on paper but totally SUCKS in actual deployment....Atleast the American version did....

I didn't say what exact unit I would use but I do want CTIS capability for the 6 395/85R 20's, I plan on putting on it. I hear Dana makes one... I wonder how well it works.

 

[kroctec]

Following through the posts of this thread it appears your intention is to 'build/modify' an all purpose vehicle to operate throughout the entire range of environmments to be found globally. Expedition vehicles are inevitably a compromise, indeed most things in life are compromise of one form or another. The combined experience/knowledge base, regarding vehicles in particular and also of life, to be found amongst the large membership will always eclipse that of your own.

You may also like to ponder the following thoughts which could clarify many things for you.

Why the Deuce Doesn't Have These I'll Never Know!
Was the starting point of this thread and so I will jump off from this

If you don't like it (the deuce) then make it whatever you do want: If you know what you want and how to do it great so get stuck in and then show us your wonderful invention/creation.

Digressing slightly now, I note that you are working towards a PhD as a 'trick cyclist', whilst some may see this as a useful profession the truth is that there are only 2 classes of people who are of real first order use in this world - they are A) Farmers B) Engineers. Farmers since their knowledge and labour feed the population and Engineers since they create the fabric and means of the manufactured environment and its accessories.

If you are unable to classify yourself in these 2 fields of endeavour (which are essential to survival) it follows that you are probably in the class we often refer to as parasites and/or pests, less likely you may be in a symbiotic relationship though this could be with any of the afore mentioned. Among the parasite/pest class may be found accountants, lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats together with their assorted ranks of paper chasers, enforcers and other similar but endless types of numberless minions.

At this juncture I would like to say, that in places like steelsoldiers, there is for sure a very much higher density of engineers and farmers or those who fulfill both roles than is found in the wider population: This (population) comprised largely of wazzocks wielding a disproportional of sway across the globe (and just look out and see what a mess we are all in as a result of inappropriate people in places of power) whilst at the same time bleeding us all to death agrandising themselves en route.

You have I see been reading the posts of many guys here, you may laugh or act as you wish while pursuing your endeavours.

Good luck and best regards from Dave Gudmunsen

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Following through the posts of this thread it appears your intention is to 'build/modify' an all purpose vehicle to operate throughout the entire range of environmments to be found globally. Expedition vehicles are inevitably a compromise, indeed most things in life are compromise of one form or another. The combined experience/knowledge base, regarding vehicles in particular and also of life, to be found amongst the large membership will always eclipse that of your own.

You may also like to ponder the following thoughts which could clarify many things for you.

Why the Deuce Doesn't Have These I'll Never Know!
Was the starting point of this thread and so I will jump off from this

If you don't like it (the deuce) then make it whatever you do want: If you know what you want and how to do it great so get stuck in and then show us your wonderful invention/creation.

Digressing slightly now, I note that you are working towards a PhD as a 'trick cyclist', whilst some may see this as a useful profession the truth is that there are only 2 classes of people who are of real first order use in this world - they are A) Farmers B) Engineers. Farmers since their knowledge and labour feed the population and Engineers since they create the fabric and means of the manufactured environment and its accessories.

If you are unable to classify yourself in these 2 fields of endeavour (which are essential to survival) it follows that you are probably in the class we often refer to as parasites and/or pests, less likely you may be in a symbiotic relationship though this could be with any of the afore mentioned. Among the parasite/pest class may be found accountants, lawyers, politicians, bureaucrats together with their assorted ranks of paper chasers, enforcers and other similar but endless types of numberless minions.

At this juncture I would like to say, that in places like steelsoldiers, there is for sure a very much higher density of engineers and farmers or those who fulfill both roles than is found in the wider population: This (population) comprised largely of wazzocks wielding a disproportional of sway across the globe (and just look out and see what a mess we are all in as a result of inappropriate people in places of power) whilst at the same time bleeding us all to death agrandising themselves en route.

You have I see been reading the posts of many guys here, you may laugh or act as you wish while pursuing your endeavours.

Good luck and best regards from Dave Gudmunsen

I love a false dichotomy argument that only two groups of useful people are farmers and engineers. Well considering how humanity seems to have existed thousands of years prior to the neolithic revolution I guess farmers are only important if you live in a society that establishes fixed settlements. Secondly, if you don't have a society based on that precept of social organization you don't really need too many engineers. Furthermore engineers owe a lot to us Philosophers, we are the ones that investigated the principles of logic and mathematics that have after all made practical engineering even possible.

Then you have pure research scientists who have discovered so many wonderful things that now engineers take for granted. It was physicists that helped to create the modern age we all love and know. They developed theories that allow engineers to develop practical machines. Furthermore it was the philosophical revolution in modern mathematical logic that has helped make this fantastic machine we conversing on work. After all if Frege, Russell , Godel , Church, Turing , and Taski hadn't developed systems of logic to account for the mathematics required in the machines such as computers it would be pointless to even contemplate the creation of a computer because the logical operations of the system would be impossible.

So it seems Engineers first need to learn from people like Pythogras before they could even figure out how calculate basic forms of geometry. So where you be when attempting to figure out how to tell a computer Hx if only if Fx means if you don't have people like the Stoics and later Frege and Russell to help you out with language?

It seems that if you want your modern world as it is, you need more than just farmers and engineers. After all, how do you expect to teach an engineer to be an engineer, without formal training? How do expect to transfer information between groups of people? It seems your argument is so flawed, that my response to it briefly now is only a formality, since it really only deserves the contempt of silence.

Now if you the M35A2 the way it is fine... There are always compromises in designs. But some of the compromises the US Army took with the design seem to be less than optimal. Air-Lockers , greater horse power , CTIS if all properly developed and tested are not negative features of any truck. In my opinion they only enhance and offer the same truck greater mobility in a greater number of environmental conditions. The only real reason I can see the US military didn't want to add these features to their trucks since all the new trucks have them is purely cash based.

But hey you think whatever you want about any number of topics ranging from philosophy to the art-trick cycling. I just thought other people might find the fact that the US department of defense omitted such useful features given the then strategic plan of containment odd as well. It is not a personal attack on any user of the truck. It is just something, I think odd given the fact that rapid deployment to far flung areas, that might make such things necessary to successful mission.

So have a nice day.

 

[mikes47jeep]

opcorn:opcorn:opcorn:

 

[scooter01922]

I could write a reply to this thread but why bother. All the threads started by this guy end like this. Anyway we can just have a mod yank it when he starts to sound like the leader of the human race?????

 

[Elwenil]

Now if you the M35A2 the way it is fine... There are always compromises in designs. But some of the compromises the US Army took with the design seem to be less than optimal. Air-Lockers , greater horse power , CTIS if all properly developed and tested are not negative features of any truck. In my opinion they only enhance and offer the same truck greater mobility in a greater number of environmental conditions. The only real reason I can see the US military didn't want to add these features to their trucks since all the new trucks have them is purely cash based.

Tell you what, you add the ARBs, the CTIS and whatever else you think the Deuce should have had to yours then let an endless line of 18 year old guys do with it as they please for 40 years and get back to us on how important and "optimal" your additions were.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Tell you what, you add the ARBs, the CTIS and whatever else you think the Deuce should have had to yours then let an endless line of 18 year old guys do with it as they please for 40 years and get back to us on how important and "optimal" your additions were.

Kraz 255B has everything the M35 and M809 M54 series should have had. They have great reputations for dependability and if I had the money I would have purchased this truck in a heart beat over the M35.

 

[kroctec]

Rolling if you want for real heavy duty off road get yourself a Vityaz DT-30 and have done with all of the add ons