Why the Deuce Doesn't Have These I'll Never Know!

[Hammer]

Lee deleted that from the site before he left (among everything else he deleted).

One of the biggest tricks to getting something out that is REALLY STUCK, is to LIFT it out while pulling it, rather then just trying to just winch it straight out.
Putting the winch line over a 4' long 4x4" so that it lifts the vehicle with the tension on the winch line, is about the easiest way to do a 'field recovery'.

 

[ATC]

Actually,Warn and the deuce winch are not rated in the same manner in any aspect.Civilian load ratings are Rolling load.A 10K Civy winch will pull a 10,000lb trailer rolling free.So the actual pull might be a couple thousand pound.The Military rating is actual Force on the cable.Plus you can use a single block to double the 10K pull to 20K...then another to get 30K,etc etc.The stock 10K I would say is enough to pull a Large Locomotive.

I'm going to have to disagree with you (not about their 'testing procedures', but about their strength). I have personally seen a Warn 8k winch lift a mid-'90's Jeep Cherokee off the ground. The Jeep was winching a truck from the front, and the rear was tied off to a tree. Yes, the Jeep was lifted off the ground and was teetering on it's wheels. No snatch blocks were used

My most recent experience was helping to extract my friends '78 Bronco from a ravine. Big block, 40" tires, with a shattered front differential was sunk to the frame in a ravine (15-20 foot tall sides at a 75° incline). Warn 10k winch dragged the Bronco sideways (while still sunk to the frame) for a few feet before straightening out and lifting it up and out of the ravine. One snatch block was used, but NOT connected back to the winching vehicle. It was used to turn the line 90°, as the winching vehicle couldn't get into a straight-pull position.

Don't knock civilian winches because they are non-military or non-PTO. I plan to install one on a Deuce Wo/W that I am looking at. Warn 15k probably. No worries about shear-pins, or shattering the transmission's case...and what if the truck breaks down or is not running when you get stuck? Can't run that PTO without a running engine.

Don't read me wrong...I'd love to have an origional W/W truck...but I can get a better Wo/W truck and a new Warn for cheaper than a 'OK' W/W truck.

 

[nk14zp]

Can you get the warn in 24v ? Or just 12v or hyd.?

 

[Elwenil]

ATC, I knock commercial winches and I even sell Warn winches. I don't like them and 99% of them fail if used regularly. There is a test done by an independent tester for Mile Marker on a couple of Warn winches that found that the winches would not pull their rated load and that the wire rope supplied with the Warn was not enough to handle the rated load. If I were to buy any Warn winch, it would be the old style 8274 as all the new planetary winches are junk and I consider them very dangerous to use since the brakes on them fail on just about every one produced. Again, I sell Warn winches and I would not touch one since their heaviest model can't hold a candle to my almost 40 year old Braden electric worm drive winch that was originally rated at 8k lbs. It will run all day long without overheating and overtaxing the electrical system and refuses to stall so far. It may not be fast but I don't think I've ever needed to be in a winch race.

And yes, Nk14zp, you can buy most popular commercial winch models in 24v.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Lee deleted that from the site before he left (among everything else he deleted).

One of the biggest tricks to getting something out that is REALLY STUCK, is to LIFT it out while pulling it, rather then just trying to just winch it straight out.
Putting the winch line over a 4' long 4x4" so that it lifts the vehicle with the tension on the winch line, is about the easiest way to do a 'field recovery'.

That does help, but how often do you actually have enough timber that is strong to lift 6-8k lbs off the ground out in the field? I've never been that lucky... However there is an easier method winch the truck out from the same direction it entered the mud hole in. Far less resistance in that path.

Myself I think Tulsa's 35,000lb winch is perfect for the M35A2 425lbs, runs on hyd has a planetary gear drive so that works well.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

Actually,Warn and the deuce winch are not rated in the same manner in any aspect.Civilian load ratings are Rolling load.A 10K Civy winch will pull a 10,000lb trailer rolling free.So the actual pull might be a couple thousand pound.The Military rating is actual Force on the cable.Plus you can use a single block to double the 10K pull to 20K...then another to get 30K,etc etc.The stock 10K I would say is enough to pull a Large Locomotive.

Well according to the manual TM-9-2320-361-20 page 49 ( on my PDF file) published in October 1991 or at least accepted during that period states the maximum line load at anytime for the winch is 6,100lbs. So that means you can have only that much load on the line no matter the number of snatch blocks you have. If you winch in civilian usage rated for the same amount of line pull as this one is then I don't see what it matters.

I like the Tulsa model 3541RL myself. It has a first line layer at 35,000lbs at 20fpm and weights only 425lbs I think that is not with the cable. But still the winch is impressive to say the least.

http://www.team-twg.com/en/tulsa-winch/products/planetary-winches-hoists/model-3541rl.htm

But that is just me.

 

[Recovry4x4]

I've dealt with winches all my adult life. Hydraulics can be real workhorses but hose failures aren't easy to remedy in the woods. Like Lanty, if I were to have another electric, it would be the 8274. They suck juice but work quite well. Refer to the top truck challenge in 2007. The folks there kinda looked down their noses when Tom Lawlor arrived with his M715 sporting 2 deuce PTO winches. By the end of the week Tom was the main winch guy. Knock the factory winch all you like, I know how to make it work for me. As far as the timber, most of the wheeling I've done in my life have been in the woods surrounded by suitable timber. The challenge of wheelin is making due with what you can find or scrounge up.
All this stuff you want to do to a deuce makes me think maybe you should start with a different truck. Maybe a USMC M813 with singles and detroits already in the back.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I've dealt with winches all my adult life. Hydraulics can be real workhorses but hose failures aren't easy to remedy in the woods. Like Lanty, if I were to have another electric, it would be the 8274. They suck juice but work quite well. Refer to the top truck challenge in 2007. The folks there kinda looked down their noses when Tom Lawlor arrived with his M715 sporting 2 deuce PTO winches. By the end of the week Tom was the main winch guy. Knock the factory winch all you like, I know how to make it work for me. As far as the timber, most of the wheeling I've done in my life have been in the woods surrounded by suitable timber. The challenge of wheelin is making due with what you can find or scrounge up.
All this stuff you want to do to a deuce makes me think maybe you should start with a different truck. Maybe a USMC M813 with singles and detroits already in the back.

I wanted a Kraz 255B. I couldn't afford it shipped to the US or fit it in my parking space at 9plus meters long it was just too big. So I'm now attempting to make the M35A2 more to my liking, Now the truck is the love of my driving live, but needs some work... However, if I had designed it in the 1950's I would have done it overkill.

 

[Hammer]

That does help, but how often do you actually have enough timber that is strong to lift 6-8k lbs off the ground out in the field? I've never been that lucky... However there is an easier method winch the truck out from the same direction it entered the mud hole in. Far less resistance in that path.

Myself I think Tulsa's 35,000lb winch is perfect for the M35A2 425lbs, runs on hyd has a planetary gear drive so that works well.

It's called 'being prepared'.
Taking a few 4x4s with you is just something that should be part of the required equipment.
We are no longer talking about little vehicles that weigh 3-6k lbs.
And you definitely have plenty of room to store a few boards.
Cut a V notch into the end of at least one 4x4. That creates a cradle for the winch line.
It can be helpful to cut the other end like a wedge so that it will stick and hold better.

I have to use these fairly often on my tow truck. And it makes rolling a vehicle back over easy, especially when they are on ice where they would otherwise keep sliding all around.

Btw, all my tow trucks have Ramsey hydraulic winches on them.
Twin 8k on the small wrecker, twin 10k on the medium wrecker.
NEVER stalled them out, just slowed them down a little

 

[saddamsnightmare]

January 10th, 2009.

U1300L Unimog, Anyone? Failing that, maybe the new MB ZATROS will suit our friends need for traction? Deep enough pockets will get you just about whatever you need... Besides, after our young navigator has handled the streets of Pittsburgh in the winter at CMU, he'll be a master at driviing in a third world country. AND the mud in the strip pits will give him plenty of insight into how hard it is to get a deuce stuck, and how much harder it is then to get it out!!!
Just a Thought,

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan


N.B. Overkill in a deuce is a 5 or 10 ton, more like a locomotive then an off road truck... When you get one really well stuck, you'll need a big dozer and it's winch to get you out. The deuce was designed to do 95+% of the missions, the 5, 10 tons and HEMTT's handled the rest....

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

January 10th, 2009.

U1300L Unimog, Anyone? Failing that, maybe the new MB ZATROS will suit our friends need for traction? Deep enough pockets will get you just about whatever you need... Besides, after our young navigator has handled the streets of Pittsburgh in the winter at CMU, he'll be a master at driviing in a third world country. AND the mud in the strip pits will give him plenty of insight into how hard it is to get a deuce stuck, and how much harder it is then to get it out!!!
Just a Thought,

Sincerely,

Kyle F. McGrogan


N.B. Overkill in a deuce is a 5 or 10 ton, more like a locomotive then an off road truck... When you get one really well stuck, you'll need a big dozer and it's winch to get you out. The deuce was designed to do 95+% of the missions, the 5, 10 tons and HEMTT's handled the rest....

I've driven the Unimog 500 series a lot... I got one stuck ... It took two tractors and the truck to unstick itself. To very fun to do. Sadly the truck was lacking a winch but it did come from the Austrian DOT so it had a bucket loader on the front. A cousin of mine had it and used to do crazy stuff in that truck... That full locking diffs...

The truck really impresses me the most is the Kraz 255B... That just seems to be an animal off road muscling through stuff I thought impossible to go.

Oh Pittsburgh cannot be any worse than Louisville size wise, but hill wise and snow wise I know it terrible. Luckily I'm deferring my acceptance into Grad School for a year so back home to the hills of Windham New York... I'll be able to practice on hills a lot the whole town in one big hill...

See we even have a ski slope...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/picable/2007/02/07/17278_Ski-Resort-Windham-Mountain-NY_620.jpg

http://www.catskillsnyrealestate.com/images/Mountains.jpg

So I think I'll have the snow driving down for sure. I did alot of driving in it before I came here to Louisville.

 

[m16ty]

Lee deleted that from the site before he left (among everything else he deleted).

One of the biggest tricks to getting something out that is REALLY STUCK, is to LIFT it out while pulling it, rather then just trying to just winch it straight out.
Putting the winch line over a 4' long 4x4" so that it lifts the vehicle with the tension on the winch line, is about the easiest way to do a 'field recovery'.

A old wheel works better than a 4X4 (the cable is less apt to slip off) if you can hook low enough.

I've had good luck unsticking vehicles if you pull from the side a little instead of pulling straight away. Seems like it helps to release the suction of the mud.

ATC, electric winches work ok but I'll put a 8,000lb pto aginst a 12,000 electric any day of the week. Durring the test you better not tie the two trucks to trees because either the winch line will break (hopefully) or it will pull the guts out of your electric winch . Just look at the line size compared to pto winches.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

If you're pulling 8,000lbs on the line it doesn't matter what is making the horsepower.

 

[m16ty]

That does help, but how often do you actually have enough timber that is strong to lift 6-8k lbs off the ground out in the field? I've never been that lucky... However there is an easier method winch the truck out from the same direction it entered the mud hole in. Far less resistance in that path.

Myself I think Tulsa's 35,000lb winch is perfect for the M35A2 425lbs, runs on hyd has a planetary gear drive so that works well.

All you need is a chainsaw if you're stuck with trees nearby. A 6" dia. oak will hold more than the winch can pull.

If you go with a 35,000# hyd. you're going to need a pump with atleast 25 GPM or it's going to be real slow. You're also going to need a oil cooler or a very big tank as it will overheat if you run it more than 5 min. at a time.

 

[m16ty]

If you're pulling 8,000lbs on the line it doesn't matter what is making the horsepower.

A 12,000lb electric won't have 8,000lb line pull.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

All you need is a chainsaw if you're stuck with trees nearby. A 6" dia. oak will hold more than the winch can pull.

If you go with a 35,000# hyd. you're going to need a pump with atleast 25 GPM or it's going to be real slow. You're also going to need a oil cooler or a very big tank as it will overheat if you run it more than 5 min. at a time.

Well I sort imagined placing the winch behind the cab and using rollers I could direct the cable forwards or backwards as needed. Plus I figured I would add a little extra rail to the frame and stiffen the point of pulling distribute the weight of the winch and force of the pull across the entire chassis so less the shock of pulling momentum on the truck. That is the plan at least.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

A 12,000lb electric won't have 8,000lb line pull.

According to the manual neither does the 10k winch on the M35 from Spice maximum load on the line is 6,100lbs you can check the manual number out a few posts up. I posted the page date of publication and line loading.

 

[Elwenil]

Again, very conservative US Military ratings. I'd say you could probably put double that before sheer pin let loose.

 

[rattlecan6104]

I'm no college educated person, but I do know that the deuce has proven itself for over 40 years. It is just fine as is, your plans and expectations for a deuce seem to be nothing more than a pipe dream. The winch is fine for recovering yourself so long as you follow the recovery publication, and use snatchblocks where needed. The engine is adequate for what the truck was designed to do(more HP more breakage), the tranny and transfer case handle the power output of the engine just fine, the axles work as advertised they are OPEN differentials. These trucks are more than double the weight of normal pickups, in mud you typically dont want a heavy truck unless you have massive and I mean obnoxiously huge tires. You are better off with a toyota for this application. If you cant get to where you need to go in a deuce maybe you oughta consider riding a horse. Once again I'm no college educated person, but I have common sense and understand the "shortcommings" of a deuce and how to use what is available to make it work without extensive modifications.

 

[Rolling_Eudaimonia]

I'm no college educated person, but I do know that the deuce has proven itself for over 40 years. It is just fine as is, your plans and expectations for a deuce seem to be nothing more than a pipe dream. The winch is fine for recovering yourself so long as you follow the recovery publication, and use snatchblocks where needed. The engine is adequate for what the truck was designed to do(more HP more breakage), the tranny and transfer case handle the power output of the engine just fine, the axles work as advertised they are OPEN differentials. These trucks are more than double the weight of normal pickups, in mud you typically dont want a heavy truck unless you have massive and I mean obnoxiously huge tires. You are better off with a toyota for this application. If you cant get to where you need to go in a deuce maybe you oughta consider riding a horse. Once again I'm no college educated person, but I have common sense and understand the "shortcommings" of a deuce and how to use what is available to make it work without extensive modifications.

What is the fun with leaving it alone?