Help ID this Glow Plug

[rod]

I'm just a few days out from changing my glowplugs in my '84 M1009 and have purchased a set of the AC Delco 60Gs to put in. I know that the spade on the 60G plugs are wider than the original ones and wil need to be ground down so the original clips will fit the spades.

As I was preparing to grind down the spades on the AC60Gs, I thought I would pull of a wire on the existing glowplugs to check to see if the glowplugs were the normal width spades or the wider spades (just incase someone had already changed out the ends.

What I found suprised me some because the glowplugs in the engine have a round tip. Here is a picture of one of the glowplugs. Can you help identify them and provided any known issues with changing them out which would make them easier, more difficults, etc......?

 

[doghead]

Humvee

 

[AllenEM]

look like the 24v hummer glow plugs I have

 

[pigfoot63]

I know hummv's have that type of plug and are 24 volt, no sure about civy trucks.

 

[rod]

Doghead, AllenEM & Pig,

Thanks, that was fast.

Hmmmm now things are falling into place.

This M1009 has always been had to start. Always seemed cold natured even in 50 degree weather I would have to cycle the plugs a couple of times before it would start. Friends up North in cold weather would tell me how their CUCVs would start in really cold weather with only cycling the plugs once. I knew something wasn't right in mine but knew I would get around to correcting the problem.

A couple of weeks ago I did the resistor bypass and the starting issues got worse. I thought it was just that the plugs and collent sensor needed to be changed. Now I realize that if I am only sending 12volts to the plugs and they are wanting 24volts, then they are not going to heat up properly, thus causing the starting issues.

I will measure voltage before I put in the new glowplugs.

Thanks Guys, the light bulb just came on for me. regarding my starting issues.

 

[doghead]

Is the resistor on the firewall still connected? Have you or someone else resupplied the power to the GP relay to 12v?

Did your truck start as it should?

 

[doghead]

funny, you just added all the answers to my questions, as I was posting!

new GPs , 12 v resupply, new terminals, you should be good to go!

 

[rod]

Doghead,

I've been around here long enough to know what questions you are going to ask...............................

Thanks.

 

[jdemaris]

. Now I realize that if I am only sending 12volts to the plugs and they are wanting 24volts, then they are not going to heat up properly, thus causing the starting issues.

According to the specs from all the companies that make those glow plugs, they are all designed to operate at 11 volts, regardless if civilian, HUMVEE, or CUCV.

The AC60Gs are not made by Delco. They are special plugs made by Beru in Germany, and Delco and Motorcraft rebox them.

6.2 Civilian used Wellman GO50 , Delco 11G, Delphi HDS309 all rated 11 volts

6.2 HUMVEE used Wellman G115 , Delco 15G, Delphi HDS801 all rated 11 volts

6.2 CUCV used Wellman G070 ,Delco 13G, Delphi HDS800, all rated 11 volts

The fastest heating and most durable plugs I know of for 6.2s are the Wellman GO50s. AC60Gs made by Beru and sold by Delco and Ford are almost as good.

Here are the times and temps with each:

Beru - boxed as AC 60G - 4 seconds - 1013 degrees F, 6 seconds - 1266 F, 9 seconds - 1545 F, 12 seconds - 1716 F,

Wellman WAP GO50 - 4 seconds - 1500 degrees F, 6 seconds - 1674 F, 9 seconds - 1905 F, 12 seconds - 2000 F,

 

[chevymike]

Okay, here's a question for ya. If these glow plugs are rated at 11 volts and someone does the "12 volt bypass" to remove a faulty resistor bank, will supplying 12 volts to them cause them to burn out or swell?

 

[doghead]

Humvee Glow plugs are NOT 12v. They are 24 volt.


as for 12 volt GPs, Rated at 10.5 volt, 11 volt or 12 volt, all for use with 12 volt vehicles. (dont get confused over the voltage rating)

 

[jdemaris]

Okay, here's a question for ya. If these glow plugs are rated at 11 volts and someone does the "12 volt bypass" to remove a faulty resistor bank, will supplying 12 volts to them cause them to burn out or swell?

All the single-coil plugs will swell and sometimes burst if used more then 9-12 seconds at a time.

The dual-coil plugs have built-in protection and are what should be used for a manual setup with no controller.

The Beru AC60Gs sold by Delco, and the Wellman GO50s - are dual-coil with burnout protection.

 

[jdemaris]

Humvee Glow plugs are NOT 12v. They are 24 volt.

as for 12 volt GPs, Rated at 10.5 volt, 11 volt or 12 volt, all for use with 12 volt vehicles. (dont get confused over the voltage rating)

You are confusing "system voltage marking" with "glow plug operating voltage." They are two different things.

All the companies that make those plugs post all those specs. All the 6.2 military plugs are designed to work at 11 volts, but some are marked "24" to indicate they are used in a vehicle with some sort of 24 volt system.

System voltage by itself means nothing. I have many diesels with 12 volt sysgtems that use glow plugs that run on only one volt.

 

[AllenEM]

I know the ones I have been running in my last oh9 were 24v humvee GP and they worked great and all I did was bypass the the RES. bank with straight 24v to the GP relay and the rest of the system I left a lone. I no longer have that oh9 but my (new to me ) oh9 by get the same set up. ( but the PO converted the truck to 12v sort of).

 

[jdemaris]

Humvee Glow plugs are NOT 12v. They are 24 volt.


as for 12 volt GPs, Rated at 10.5 volt, 11 volt or 12 volt, all for use with 12 volt vehicles. (dont get confused over the voltage rating)

Glow plug specs:


HDS800 specs used in CUCV, also Delco 13G, Wellman G070, GM 5613939, etc.
V1 - vehicle system voltage - 24 volts
V2 - voltage marked on glow plug body - 11 volts
A - current draw at working temperature - not given
V3 - preheat system voltage - not given
T3- time to working temp in C at V3 in seconds - not given
T4 - voltage for testing glow plug separately - not given
Hex size for wrench - .375”
Threads in head = 10 X 1.00 mm
Total length of glow plug = 76.3 mm
Length of element in head - 28.9 mm
Connector on end - spade connector


HDS801 specs used in HUMVEE, also Wellman G115, Delco 15G, GM 5614017:
V1 - vehicle system voltage - 24 volts
V2 - voltage marked on glow plug body - 11 volts
A - current draw at working temperature - not available
V3 - preheat system voltage -not available
T3- time to working temp in C at V3 in seconds - not available
T4 - voltage for testing glow plug separately - not available
Hex size for wrench - .375”
Threads in head - 10 x 1.00 mm
Total length of glow plug - 74.3 mm
Length of element in head - 28.9 mm
Connector on end - bullet connector
HDS309 specs, also Wellman GO50, Delco 11G and AC60G (made by Beru). Bosch 0250 202 252, GM 5613738 and 25168651, Lucas DS094A:
V1 - vehicle system voltage - 12 volts
V2 - voltage marked on glow plug body - 11.5 volts
A - current draw at working temperature - 7.5 amps
V3 - preheat system voltage - less then 10 volts at plug at 11.5 volts system voltage
T3- time to working temp in C at V3 in seconds, less then 10 seconds at 10 volts at plug
T4 - voltage for testing glow plug separately - not given
Hex size for wrench - .375”
Threads in head - 10 X 1.00 mm
Total length of glow plug - 80 mm
Length of element in head - 28.5 mm
Connector on end - spade
　
HDS306 specs used in civilian 6.2s 1982 - 1993, also Champion CH77, Delco 9G, Lucas DS901A,:
V1 - vehicle system voltage - 12 volts
V2 - voltage marked on glow plug body - 6 volts
A - current draw at working temperature - 9 amps
V3 - preheat system voltage - not available
T3- time to working temp in C at V3 in seconds - less then 50 at 6 volts
T4 - voltage for testing glow plug separately - not available
Hex size for wrench - .375”
Threads in head - 10 x 1.00 mm
Total length of glow plug - 77.5 mm
Length of element in head - 26.5 mm
Connector on end - spade connector
　
　
　
　
　

 

[doghead]

You are confusing "system voltage marking" with "glow plug operating voltage." They are two different things.

All the companies that make those plugs post all those specs. All the 6.2 military plugs are designed to work at 11 volts, but some are marked "24" to indicate they are used in a vehicle with some sort of 24 volt system.

System voltage by itself means nothing. I have many diesels with 12 volt sysgtems that use glow plugs that run on only one volt.

That is incorrect. They(humvee GPs) are designed to operate with 24 volts. They are 24 volt Glow Plugs. Call a manufacturer and ask.

The Beru AC60Gs sold by Delco, and the Wellman GO50s - are dual-coil with burnout protection

Wellmans do burn out when energized too long. I have had long talks with Chuck Gillis over this and posted it before. They are not "self regulating" no matter what you read.

 

[jdemaris]

You are wrong. They(humvee GPs) are designed to operate with 24 volts. They are 24 volt Glow Plugs. Call a manufaturer and ask.

Why on earth would I call some chump behind a telephone when I have full data sheets for glow plug specs from - Beru, Denso, NGK, Delphi, May, Wellman etc.?

Do you think the companies that design and build these plugs are are lying?

By the way, in a 24 volt system, hardly anyting operates at exactly 24 volts. Starter is designed to crank at 18 volts. Injection pump solenoid designed to work at 14 to 30 volts, etc. Each alternator 13.8 to 15 volts depending on regulator used. I'm not sure exactly what GM intended for exact glow plug operating voltage range AT the plug, after current runs through the resistor. Yes, I have the books and could look up the specs , but I don't care.

The figures from the companies that make the glow plugs are what they are designed to sustain, regardless of specific application. GM often doubled voltage to cut heat time in half. That often got them in trouble with burst plugs. Like I said earlier, there's big difference between "system voltage" and "glow plug rated voltage." My IH diesel tractor has a 12 volt system that is actually 14.4 volts when running and 9 volts when cranking. Yet, the glow plugs operat at 9/10ths of one volt.

 

[jdemaris]

Wellmans do burn out when energized too long. I have had long talks with Chuck Gillis over this and posted it before. They are not "self regulating" no matter what you read.

Yeah? What Wellmans?


Cite some actual specs and numbers. Not all Wellman or Delco plugs are self-limiting dual-coil design. Depends on part # and application.

I've had more glow-plug failures from Delco and Champion built plugs then anything else. When I say Delco, I mean plugs that Delco actually made or designed. AC60G plug are NOT made or designed by Delco. Just reboxed and sold by Delco.

That being said, Wellman G050 and Delco-Beru AC-60Gs are dual-coil. Does that mean they never fail? No. I've never seen one swell and burst though. I've used and bench tested-for-failure many of both - at 60 second heat cycles.

A few years ago, Wellman WAP DID have a bad batch of G050s and were replacing them under warranty. That was maybe 3 years ago? Since then, I haven't heard of any problems. I've got three trucks with the Wellman plugs and my son has one. During the past two years, I've had zero failures. My son had one plug to bad - but not well or burst. And to be fair, I think his were purchased 3 years ago and might of been from that bad batch.

 

[AllenEM]

I think we are confusing the post. he only wanted to know what glow plug he had.

 

[jdemaris]

Humvee Glow plugs are NOT 12v. They are 24 volt.


as for 12 volt GPs, Rated at 10.5 volt, 11 volt or 12 volt, all for use with 12 volt vehicles. (dont get confused over the voltage rating)

As I said, the plugs themselves used in HUMVEEs are designed to work properly at 11 volts, NEVER at 24 volts.

I just checked my GM-Military wiring manuals for the HUMVEE. The 24 volt sytem uses a resistor that works with an 18-26 volt input, and a 12 volt output to the glow plugs when it has the proper load on it from eight operating glow plugs.

Where are you getting this "24 volt" stuff from?

So, the HUMVEE uses 11 volt glow plugs that get powered with 12 volts, all from an overall 24 volt system. Since the 24 voltage is dropped to 12 volts, the HUMVEE can probably sustain 12 volts to the plugs even WHEN cranking.

A civilian 6.2 uses 11 volt glow plugs that get powered with 12 volts (if not cranking) and 9 volts (if cranking) from an overall 12 volt system.

And yes, some versions actually are rated 10.5 volts instead of 11 volts.

Many older GM diesels used 6 volt glow plugs with 12 volt systems for "fast heat" but had short lives.

If somebody is going to use a late 80s, early 90s civilian glow-plug controller - it will not work properly with the Delco-Beru AC-60Gs unless you reprogram it. The controller works better with the Wellman G050 plugs.

If using a manual button and relay system, either work fine. The Wellmans heat up a little faster.