1009 mystery issue

[markg]

IF his glow plugs are working and he introduces starting fluid he may very well ruin his engine.

PLEASE CONSIDER THIS BEFORE SPRAYING ETHER IN A 6.2!!!

thats why i said walk slowly back to the truck for starting or i should have said walk slowly.

 

[markg]

A gas soaked (wrung out so you get vapor only) rag works too and less of a hit than either.

ive had to do that before too.

 

[stampy]

Mine had developed a hot start problem and I had to do that a few times and yes I used either too but at least I have the cold air duct in the front so it isn't quite as big a hit as if you sprayed it into the intake directly. The rag works great though (just don't let it get sucked into the manifold).

 

[D T]

before you start spraying stuff,bleed your fuel filter,I would track down the sizzeling sound. And the solinoid on the firewall is your GP relay ,your GPcontroller card is under the dash in a plastic box ,pull your card and inspect it ,look for burned componets or traces,smell it ,that might tell you something

 

[67_C-30]

you dont have to hear anything from the pump, just check for 12v with the key on. if your seeing smoke at the tailpipe while cranking, you have fuel but no heat. i dont condone using ether but just a little bit will answer your question about fuel. in fact just squirt a little in the breather, walk back and try to start the truck. it will start but if it dies right away you have air in the system.

If the glowplugs are working, squirting any amount of ether is bad for it. Period. If you are ever going to start a 6.2 with ether, you need to disable the glowplugs in the case that maybe even 1 or 2 of them are working. Also, a diesel will not run on ether alone. You can take the power wire off of the IP, and spray a whole can of ether in a 6.2 and it will not run for even if a second. Fuel has to injected into the cylinder at very high psi for a diesel engine to run. If you have enough in the system that the injectors won't pop, ether will do nothing for it.

BTW, if the fuel solenoid is working, it will click. A friend of mine bought a non- running M1009 from Warner Robins and the only thing wrong with it was a bad fuel solenoid. I would start there.

 

[markg]

Also, a diesel will not run on ether alone. You can take the power wire off of the IP, and spray a whole can of ether in a 6.2 and it will not run for even if a second. Fuel has to injected into the cylinder at very high psi for a diesel engine to run. If you have enough in the system that the injectors won't pop, ether will do nothing for it.

im sorry but you are wrong, ether will make it run without any evidence of fuel, its the diesel thats KEEPS it running when the ether is burned off. this is also dependant on good strong batteries and starter. for the engine to turn over with ether in the cylinder draws way more current from the batteries.

when i got the truck you see to the left the fuel filter was full of water. after further investigation i determined that the tank was also full of water-fuel mix. this truck had not run in several years, probable because of the fuel issue. after fresh fuel and a new filter the process to dispell the air in the lines is either crank-bleed, crank, bleed, you get the picture. or crank, start, let the engine dispell the air. with a helper, or remote start and diluted ether -mix and of course disabled glow plug system i got the truck running in no time. other things like gas on a rag, wd-40(doesnt work for me) and carb-cleaner will also do the trick. my 2 cents.

 

[67_C-30]

im sorry but you are wrong, ether will make it run without any evidence of fuel, its the diesel thats KEEPS it running when the ether is burned off. this is also dependant on good strong batteries and starter. for the engine to turn over with ether in the cylinder draws way more current from the batteries.

when i got the truck you see to the left the fuel filter was full of water. after further investigation i determined that the tank was also full of water-fuel mix. this truck had not run in several years, probable because of the fuel issue. after fresh fuel and a new filter the process to dispell the air in the lines is either crank-bleed, crank, bleed, you get the picture. or crank, start, let the engine dispell the air. with a helper, or remote start and diluted ether -mix and of course disabled glow plug system i got the truck running in no time. other things like gas on a rag, wd-40(doesnt work for me) and carb-cleaner will also do the trick. my 2 cents.

Go out to your truck, unplug your fuel solenoid, and spray it with ether. I promise it WILL NOT crank. I have been running these engines for 15 years, and I have built several of the turbocharged 3 of them. Back when I first started fooling with them, I thought that would work too. Ether will help it crank if there is some air in the system, and if only a some of the injectors are popping, but ether will make it crank if it dry or if it has so much air that none injectors. Feel free to try it, and you'll see.

Oh, you're right about WD-40. It used to work great, but WD40 changed the formula a few years ago to allow the use of non-flammable CO2 as a propellant. The CO2-propelled cans have a larger nozzle than the old can. If you can find an old can of it, it will work but the new stuff won't.

 

[markg]

Go out to your truck, unplug your fuel solenoid, and spray it with ether. I promise it WILL NOT crank.

i will and have done all those things except unplug power to the pump because i never had any reason to, and they will start and run without fuel. there is a guy on youtube that does that very thing.

i read another post where people get air in the lines over night, truck will start cold in the morning, run for 10 seconds, then immediately die. the process of dispelling the air is the same. no fuel in the pump means no fuel to the cyclinder. the air must be displaced by the starter and the batteries wich is hard on them. thats where " fire in the can" comes in. use it or dont, but when your stranded a long way from home you do what you have to do!!!

 

[fuzzpuss]

I gave a couple short burst of ether... I know it ain't good on em but I needed to see if it was getting any fire and it didn't even remotely act like it was gonna fire off. So now what? injection pump or solenoid? and yes there is power to the IP.

 

[markg]

I gave a couple short burst of ether... I know it ain't good on em but I needed to see if it was getting any fire and it didn't even remotely act like it was gonna fire off. So now what? injection pump or solenoid?

there is no fire with a diesel, no spark plug, just compression. i think your batteries are run down from cranking. if you have weak batteries and spray ether usually the starter wont turn the motor, thats what scares people. if your batteries are not hot, use 12v jumper cable to another vehicle if you have too. connect to one battery at a time. i have actually used two 12v vehicle's connected to both batteries to get good crank speed. disable your glow plug system, pull the card out from under the dash, THEN give a shot of ether, crank the truck and see what happens. it will start!!

 

[fuzzpuss]

no it cranks fairly fast... enough to generally fire it off when it was running so thats not the issue that I see.

 

[FMJ]

I would like to officially go on record, he has an Injection Pump problem, be it fuel shut of solenoid, or a dead high pressure side. I just reread the whole thread, and based on all his observations I'm all in on the IP being the problem.

 

[FMJ]

Fuzz, I'll be back in Vegas next week, let me know if you need a hand, also I have several take off IP's from 6.2's I'll bring one with me if you want.

Ed

 

[markg]

I would like to officially go on record, he has an Injection Pump problem, be it fuel shut of solenoid, or a dead high pressure side. I just reread the whole thread, and based on all his observations I'm all in on the IP being the problem.

you could be right, here is how to check. remove the return rubber line from the top of the pump, has a red clamp on it. remove the fitting 9/16 i think. look at whats inside of it. blow it backwards with air and see what comes out. should be just fuel. re install it, crank the motor, should see a good stream of fuel come out. if you dont, no fuel to the pump, (5 psi) if you have trash in the check valve, your pump is coming apart inside. rebuild it. 84 models had bad flex rings that would come apart. even bad pump should run after this procedure. if this truck just made a 2200 trip i doubt pump just quit. something else going on. i have seen it all!!

i dont recommend doing this but i was in las cruces,nm one time with a stopped up injection pump in a m1010 ambulance with less than 10k miles, i gutted the check ball out of the return fitting and drove the rest of the way home, to austin,tx

 

[fuzzpuss]

Fuzz, I'll be back in Vegas next week, let me know if you need a hand, also I have several take off IP's from 6.2's I'll bring one with me if you want.

Ed

That sounds good I will PM you with my cell#

 

[fuzzpuss]

you could be right, here is how to check. remove the return rubber line from the top of the pump, has a red clamp on it. remove the fitting 9/16 i think. look at whats inside of it. blow it backwards with air and see what comes out. should be just fuel. re install it, crank the motor, should see a good stream of fuel come out. if you dont, no fuel to the pump, (5 psi) if you have trash in the check valve, your pump is coming apart inside. rebuild it. 84 models had bad flex rings that would come apart. even bad pump should run after this procedure. if this truck just made a 2200 trip i doubt pump just quit. something else going on. i have seen it all!!

i dont recommend doing this but i was in las cruces,nm one time with a stopped up injection pump in a m1010 ambulance with less than 10k miles, i gutted the check ball out of the return fitting and drove the rest of the way home, to austin,tx

So how much air pressure do I use? high or low pressure and will this jack up anything in the pump forcing it to go backwards in a sense?

 

[markg]

So how much air pressure do I use? high or low pressure and will this jack up anything in the pump forcing it to go backwards in a sense?

here are the steps. remove the rubber line from the top of the pump(red clamp) twist it with your hand, it may not want to come off. take 9/16 deep socket, remove the return black fitting. blow backward in your hand if you can, see what come out, then go get compressed air if you have access. blow backwards to clean whatever might be in there. put it back on the pump but leave the hose off. crank the motor and you should see a nice stream of fuel while cranking. if you dont you have no fuel in the pump, either air or lift pump issue. if you do have fuel, put it back together, it should start. while cranking, like i said before , you will see raw fuel smoke at the tailpipe. it has to run!!

 

[67_C-30]

i will and have done all those things except unplug power to the pump because i never had any reason to, and they will start and run without fuel. there is a guy on youtube that does that very thing.

The guy on youtube is drainback problems, meaning there is some air in the system, but the system is not competely dry. This means it is getting some fuel. If the camera was on the tailpipe, you'd be seeing white smoke coming out while he was was trying to crank it. if you go out to your truck, unplug your fuel solenoid wire, it will not crank with ether. Like I said, try it. Post a video of it.

I'm not trying to start a pissing match with you on this, I'm simply saying this because if the IP takes a crap and is not working, ether will not crank the engine. Again, pull the wire and try it, and you'll see.

I've had the GP solenoid die and I've had to use ether. I've known guys that have shot their 6.2's every morning. If you don't do over do it, ether won't hurt them.

 

[fuzzpuss]

here are the steps. remove the rubber line from the top of the pump(red clamp) twist it with your hand, it may not want to come off. take 9/16 deep socket, remove the return black fitting. blow backward in your hand if you can, see what come out, then go get compressed air if you have access. blow backwards to clean whatever might be in there. put it back on the pump but leave the hose off. crank the motor and you should see a nice stream of fuel while cranking. if you dont you have no fuel in the pump, either air or lift pump issue. if you do have fuel, put it back together, it should start. while cranking, like i said before , you will see raw fuel smoke at the tailpipe. it has to run!!

OK I did this step by step, took all of 2 minutes to accomplish I could even look thru the check ball and see daylight before i blew it out, got the result you said I would, fuel squirting out, except it still is not firing off... Now what?

 

[fuzzpuss]

I don't see any smoke at the tailpipes at all.