6.2 with turbo build in progress

[bubba_got_you]

Did you paint the intake manifold? On the Harmonic balancer. Is it going to be a stock replacement one?

[FONT=&quot]
Yes and yes. If I was building a high hp competition motor I would have gone with different but since it is just for my daily driver that I occasionally use for towing the stock one will work fine. [/FONT]

 

[bubba_got_you]

[FONT=&quot]Well if my morning is any indication of how the weekend will go it is not looking good. First I go to the parts store to get the balancer and intake gaskets. I get home to find they gave me c code gaskets when I asked for j. no big deal I wasn’t doing to do that today anyways and will just take them back when I pickup the balancer. Then I call my local seal shop to get the front shaft seal. He tells me he cant look up the part # and I will need to bring the seal in. now when I get there he looks in his book and graciously tells me that he doesn’t have it and that it will take a week to get it. So now I will have to go to Napa and hope they have the seal. Ahhhhh what fun we have. People who do not have to deal with finding parts really don’t understand how much work it is. But I got used to that when I was rebuilding my first MV a 1952 m37 with a 318. [/FONT]

 

[WARWAG]

I feel for you man. I live in the most remote town in the continental United States and getting the "correct" part can sometimes be a huge headache!

 

[bubba_got_you]

[FONT=&quot]Ok here are some new pix. I didn’t get much done because iv been working like its going out of style to get this truck ready for my thanksgiving trip to have turkey with the family. [/FONT]

 

[bubba_got_you]

[FONT=&quot]I also want to say this again. And this is for the people who are not used to working on these trucks. If you are doing a motor swap it is really important to replace seals and gaskets. You have to remember motors don’t like to sit. If the motor is old or has been sitting for a long time it is more important to replace seals and gaskets than ad a turbo. Because what use is a turbo when the motor is shot because all the oil leaked out due to bad seals. I will be starting the turbo work in a few weeks now that the motor is nicely sealed. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Also I’ve spent a grate deal of time blasting and painting parts. It looks good and all but when it comes right down to it a pretty motor in not necessarily a good motor. it is something to remember when looking at buying a motor. [/FONT]

 

[rnd-motorsports]

Just looking at the pics above and was woundering what year is the engine and what is it out of? I notice the water crossover is not that of a 6.2 in a pickup or blazer nor the vacume pump and was just qurious

 

[bubba_got_you]

Just looking at the pics above and was wondering what year is the engine and what is it out of? I notice the water crossover is not that of a 6.2 in a pickup or blazer nor the vacuum pump and was just curious

it was out of a 85 g20 van so it is a bit different

 

[67_C-30]

Lot of yakkin from guys that have NOT done this conversion.

Sorry chief...

I WILL be doing this conversion and WILL post the results. Including dyno runs before and after.

AGAIN, according to Westech, whom I have discussed this with AT LENGTH, I may be understating the numbers.

But again, dyno runs, injector tip change plus some bump in the IP timing and then we will ALL see.

I always like folks who turn negative BEFORE ever actually seeing the results.

You are ALL aware that the 6.2L was also used in marine applications, right? And the numbers these folks got were much higher (no epa BS on marine application at that time).

And if you are going to rebuild this motor, can anyone please tell me why no one uses all the old school hot rod tricks? They are all time tested and work.

Again, air in - air out. That's what you are trying for. NOTE: a 3" single pipe does NOT give the same 'air out' as dual (no cross connections) 2". Now if you want to use a 4" single... well you are definitely in the ballpark. It's simple math.

Flow the heads. Balance and blueprint it. ALL are things you can do yourself. It's fairly easy.

Again. You gotta build what you gotta build.

But I will be posting my results the first of next year (very busy the holiday season for some reason - normally I would have time to do it now). Then we will have this discussion again.

I'll gladly eat crow. IF I'm wrong, I'm wrong. Can the rest of you say that?

But the numbers won't lie. And I WILL have the slips. And I WILL POST THEM. Either way. I will be doing this at 101coolcars shop so you will also have separate confirmation or denial from an impartial source. He's offered to do the dyno runs, change the tips and then do the dyno runs again. I pay for the shop time and then we all see. If it works, I'm pretty sure I've got my chance at an article "Diesel Power" magazine will look at. Picture sell words, words sell pictures. Not my first published article.

Think of it this way. What have I GOT TO LOSE for a $100 worth of parts and two or three hours shop time? Nothing.

Oh, and lets not forget, I'm at 5280 altitude here in Denver, so that works against me anyway. But I love a challenge. And some of you don't know me, but I do what I say and I say what I do. It's pretty simple. And lots of folks over the years have been stepped on by my size 11's and have complained.

I've been stepped on myself by others. The difference is I don't complain. I suck it up, learn from it and do better next time.

If you listen, it's called an education. If you don't listen, it's called experience. I'm more into education these days than reinventing the 'education' wheel...

Wallew, I'm not trying bring this back up to show you up, so please don't take it that way. I have ran, built, and modified these engines for years. Having lots of experience with these engines, I can tell you with certainty that getting 100HP with just injector tips is impossible, and I will tell you why. The problem is, was, and always will be heat on these engines. Being an indirect injection diesel, that is the limiting factor on these engines. The marine spec engines can and are built to produce much higher HP levels than they ever can in a truck simply because there is a whole lake to keep them cool. For years, I've pushed the envelope on them and I have always "hit the wall" when I could no longer keep them cool. The EGT's of a 6.2 getting enough fuel to produce 250HP without a turbo would be astronomical. In fact, getting to 250HP WITH a turbo requires quite a bit of modification to make it live. There has been many a 6.5TD truck that had the turbo go bad, and the engine was destroyed by due to the owner not parking the truck.

For all around performance (not max power by any means, but affordable, reliable power), these engines are about at their best with the CR lowered to 19 - 19.5 : 1, an efficient turbo like A Team turbo, and 4911 6.5TD mechanical IP, 6.5 injectors, 6.5 haeds with the larger diamond precups, a J code turbo intake, and the 1997 up dual stat water crossover, high flow water pump, and a D max fan (this requires serpentine set-up). You can drop the CR to 18, but they have cranking issues in cold weather climates. I built a 6.2 to these specs (except I used a Holset H1C turbo from a first gen Cummins) in a '91 C3500 service body truck I had, and it was very impressive. It cranked well when cold, and ran very strong even when hauling heavy equipment trailers. The EGT's and temp were much easier to keep in check the stock CR 6.2's I've built. I did have to put a jumper wire to GP controller when it was really cold. It needed a little more glow time that the stock controller provided and I used Delco 60G's to keep from overheating them.

One more, thing I gotta share from racing days is flow dynamics. As crazy, as it sounds, a single 3" pipe does out flow dual 2" pipes. Its one of those weird things, but flow dynamics don't lie.

single 3" pipe:
3.14*1.5*1.5 = 7.065 in^2

dual 2" pipes:
2*3.14*1*1 = 6.28 in^2

Not only does the 3" have more cross sectional area, but there is more flow resistance with the 2 pipes than there is with one. When I was first told this years ago, I argued that the guy was crazy. After extensive research, I realized I was wrong. I was racing an 80's Camaro and they have no easy provision for dual exhaust. I was tossing ideas around to modify the floor of the car to run duals, and I was wasting my time. I ended up running a single 4" system and the car ran ran in the low 10's at 140+.

 

[WARWAG]

This has been a great thread! Bubba, Thanks for all the pictures. She really looks impressive and knowing what all you have done means she is! Cant wait for the Turbo install to start!

 

[bubba_got_you]

Wallew, I'm not trying bring this back up to show you up, so please don't take it that way. I have ran, built, and modified these engines for years. Having lots of experience with these engines, I can tell you with certainty that getting 100HP with just injector tips is impossible, and I will tell you why. The problem is, was, and always will be heat on these engines. Being an indirect injection diesel, that is the limiting factor on these engines. The marine spec engines can and are built to produce much higher HP levels than they ever can in a truck simply because there is a whole lake to keep them cool. For years, I've pushed the envelope on them and I have always "hit the wall" when I could no longer keep them cool. The EGT's of a 6.2 getting enough fuel to produce 250HP without a turbo would be astronomical. In fact, getting to 250HP WITH a turbo requires quite a bit of modification to make it live. There has been many a 6.5TD truck that had the turbo go bad, and the engine was destroyed by due to the owner not parking the truck.

For all around performance (not max power by any means, but affordable, reliable power), these engines are about at their best with the CR lowered to 19 - 19.5 : 1, an efficient turbo like A Team turbo, and 4911 6.5TD mechanical IP, 6.5 injectors, 6.5 haeds with the larger diamond precups, a J code turbo intake, and the 1997 up dual stat water crossover, high flow water pump, and a D max fan (this requires serpentine set-up). You can drop the CR to 18, but they have cranking issues in cold weather climates. I built a 6.2 to these specs (except I used a Holset H1C turbo from a first gen Cummins) in a '91 C3500 service body truck I had, and it was very impressive. It cranked well when cold, and ran very strong even when hauling heavy equipment trailers. The EGT's and temp were much easier to keep in check the stock CR 6.2's I've built. I did have to put a jumper wire to GP controller when it was really cold. It needed a little more glow time that the stock controller provided and I used Delco 60G's to keep from overheating them.

One more, thing I gotta share from racing days is flow dynamics. As crazy, as it sounds, a single 3" pipe does out flow dual 2" pipes. Its one of those weird things, but flow dynamics don't lie.

single 3" pipe:
3.14*1.5*1.5 = 7.065 in^2

dual 2" pipes:
2*3.14*1*1 = 6.28 in^2

Not only does the 3" have more cross sectional area, but there is more flow resistance with the 2 pipes than there is with one. When I was first told this years ago, I argued that the guy was crazy. After extensive research, I realized I was wrong. I was racing an 80's Camaro and they have no easy provision for dual exhaust. I was tossing ideas around to modify the floor of the car to run duals, and I was wasting my time. I ended up running a single 4" system and the car ran ran in the low 10's at 140+.

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the info and the experience!!!! That’s some good info. I also had decided a few weeks back that I would go with 4” pipe so the info is a good help. [/FONT]

 

[rnd-motorsports]

on the exhaust I have run street stock race cars for about 10 years and a single 3 or 4 inch is the way to go and way quiter without a muffler way quiter then duals!

 

[IdahoPlowboy]

I feel for you man. I live in the most remote town in the continental United States and getting the "correct" part can sometimes be a huge headache!

You live in Jarbidge?

 

[67_C-30]

[FONT=&quot]Thanks for the info and the experience!!!! That’s some good info. I also had decided a few weeks back that I would go with 4” pipe so the info is a good help. [/FONT]

In built a 4" exhaust for my the Humvee take-out 6.2 that I put in my '67 C-30. The factory turndown is designed for a 2 3/4" downpipe, and the inside of it very restrictive. It crimps down, and has a sharp bend inside that creates back pressure. This limits the advantage of a bigger exhaust and and I wanted to free up as much as possible. It was pretty easy to make. I took the factory turndown off the turbo and painted it with blue layout and transfered the shape to a piece of paper. When it dried, I cut out the paper and traced in a piece of 1/2" steel. I bought 4" mandrel bent exhaust tubing pieces and after a little massaging on the upper right corner I welded it to the flange. It sounds awesome and looks massive on there. I have never had a 6.5 turbo that makes as much noise as it does with the this turndown. It starts whistling on start-up and REALLY whistles under a load. I love it and the video real does it no justice. The only downside is that it requires trimming of the inner fender to clear. Here's some pics of it a clip of the engine running right after I put it in the truck.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXhvZP9wryk[/media]

 

[67_C-30]

Wallew,

I also wanted to add to post my below that I would be interested to see the dyno results when you do them on your truck. There is a quite a bit of power that can be unlocked on a NA 6.2 that really makes them run much stronger. I currently have my the timing bumped up about 3 degrees, A K&N air filter, the IP turned up just a touch over 1/8 turn, and Flowmasters on my M1009 and it runs significantly better than it did when I got it from GL. I have read that these mods add about 20 RWHP. I have a Banks Sidewinder system that I am going install on it, but it is much more fun to drive with the mods I've done than it was before.

I just wanted to make sure I didn't come off as a know it all before. I have read many your posts on general repairs, etc pertaining to these trucks, and I've learned a lot from your posts. Being that you have so many of them, you know a lot more about these trucks than I do. I just have a lot of experience with 6.2/6.5 engines, and i wanted to share my experience in thread since it seems like this is going to be a great reference thread for turbo/performance related questions in the future.

 

[bubba_got_you]

In built a 4" exhaust for my the Humvee take-out 6.2 that I put in my '67 C-30. The factory turndown is designed for a 2 3/4" downpipe, and the inside of it very restrictive. It crimps down, and has a sharp bend inside that creates back pressure. This limits the advantage of a bigger exhaust and and I wanted to free up as much as possible. It was pretty easy to make. I took the factory turndown off the turbo and painted it with blue layout and transfered the shape to a piece of paper. When it dried, I cut out the paper and traced in a piece of 1/2" steel. I bought 4" mandrel bent exhaust tubing pieces and after a little massaging on the upper right corner I welded it to the flange. It sounds awesome and looks massive on there. I have never had a 6.5 turbo that makes as much noise as it does with the this turndown. It starts whistling on start-up and REALLY whistles under a load. I love it and the video real does it no justice. The only downside is that it requires trimming of the inner fender to clear. Here's some pics of it a clip of the engine running right after I put it in the truck.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXhvZP9wryk[/media]

now thats a sweet sound!!! what turbo is that?

 

[67_C-30]

now thats a sweet sound!!! what turbo is that?

Its a GM-3 from 1993 6.5TD. This engine is pretty mild. Its a low mileage 6.2 with a stud girdle, 1993 6.5TD manifolds and turbo, short body 6.5 marine injectors, SS Diesel Supply 2 1/2" crossover pipe, custom pressure chamber on a 1982 J code dual plane intake.

 

[Alredneck]

Bubba motors looking good, trucks pretty sweet to!

Did you build your girdles out of angle iron?

Also for the folks talking about marine injection pumps on truck motors. Throttle response will be a issues a a marine pump is set up different than on a truck IP. THink about how application of throttle is different between the to. Truck IPs require minute applications. Marine is more a lil or a lot! Or so the sayin goes!

 

[nattieleather]

There has been talk about lowering the compression ration when adding a turbo. Seems that the 6.5 is around 19:1 ish and the 6.2 is 22:1 ish and that if you add a turbo to a 6.2 that one should look at lowering the compression ration to around that 19:1 mark. My questions be how does one lower the compression ratio? Put 6.5 heads on? Change the pistons? Change a ring? Take out spacers? I would like to know. Thanks
Joe

 

[bubba_got_you]

Bubba motors looking good, trucks pretty sweet to!

Did you build your girdles out of angle iron?

[FONT=&quot]Yes it is angle that I milled and blasted. [/FONT]

 

[bubba_got_you]

Its a GM-3 from 1993 6.5TD. This engine is pretty mild. Its a low mileage 6.2 with a stud girdle, 1993 6.5TD manifolds and turbo, short body 6.5 marine injectors, SS Diesel Supply 2 1/2" crossover pipe, custom pressure chamber on a 1982 J code dual plane intake.

[FONT=&quot]Then I will be looking for a gm3 lol. That is a nice setup you have. [/FONT]